Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don‘t see any value in continuing to say the measurements with room correction engaged ”are terrible” until there is a way to measure and/or prove it. I realize you don’t care for it but I’d guess you are in the minority and if utilized properly it can provide remarkably pleasing results.

That's not my point at all. My point is we all do what SOUNDS BEST TO US.

My point is, even if THD+N is 0.1%, we would still use whichever SOUNDS best to us, regardless of what the measurements look like on paper.

My point is that all these THD+N measurements are INAUDIBLE, so just use whichever sounds best to you - whether it is Pure Direct or Stereo or Auto Room EQ (Audyssey, YPAO, Dirac, Trinnov, Lyngdorf, etc.).

 

[jakkedtide]

So about Audio delay when using eARC : it's even more weird than what I was expecting.
Plugging the PC directly to the RX-A8A (losing the 4K 120Hz for test purpose) I have NO AUDIO DELAY ! \o/
Victory ? Yes but no.
Plugging directly the PC to the AVR I have this strange behavior :
- Using DTS X for Home Theater : I receive a 7.1 PCM stream and the amp is displaying DTX X : MA (don't know what MA means, is this the same than DTS HD Master for lossless signal ?)
- Using Dolby Atmos : I receive a 7.1 PCM stream BUT the amp isn't recognizing it as a Dolby Atmos stream (may be a Dolby Digital PCM stream)

So until now my understanding is that when I am plugging the PC to the TV then the audio device is recognized as a Dolby Atmos compatible device, and then send a Dolby Atmos stream to the TV that send it to the AVR (and then I have a Dolby Atmos displayed on the amp front panel).
But the amp ISN'T recognized as a Dolby Atmos device by the PC. Maybe I miss an option in the amp setup to tell the HDMI 7 input to be recognized as a Doby Atmos compatible device.

Which setting do you need to turn earc on, on the receiver? My tv is set properly. Also when you play something on your tv through the tv app you can't get the onscreen Yamaha menu anymore which is odd or is it suppose to be like that

 

[AVR Enthu]

Yes this is why I bought an AppleTV to get the proper Atmos PCM stream from any major streaming service.
But the amp is displaying Atmos/PCM when receiving eARC sound stream from the TV app. How is this possible ?

PCM signal carries already decoded Atmos over HDMI cable. This means that TV app unpacks (decodes) the file, plays video and sends audio wherever you set it to, built-in speakers or via ARC/eARC to AVR as PCM signal. AVR does not do decoding here, just receives and converts digital audio signal (PCM) sent from TV into analog, amplifies it and sends to speakers. Both lossy and lossless audio, stereo or multi-channel, could be sent as PCM signal. The content of PCM signal depends on what original movie file contains in itself and device capability on either end of the chain.

Now, if a streaming video file contains lossless audio and is handled by internal TV app, lossless audio cannot be sent out from TV's app, as TV's chipset, where apps are installed, does not have wider, native eARC output channel, so bandwidth is not enough to push Atmos over DTHD or DTS:X out of the app. It is enough though for Atmos over DD+. Whatever the internal TV app can output over HDMI cable, it is still PCM signal, regardless. ARC channel is 2-3 Mbps and eARC has bandwidth ~37 Mbps. Perhaps TVs chipsets in 2022-2023 will bake native eARC channel into boards. They should, finally. That's why Plex app on TV cannot output lossless soundtrack and Plex on Shield or other external source can, as it is connected to usual HDMI input on AVR, so full bandwidth, or to TV's HDMI input and lossless audio bypasses internal TV's chipset via eARC.

Streaming online services provide Atmos over DD+, as it saves bandwidth and effort. Lossy (still good though) Atmos over DD+ takes 2-6 Mbps and lossless Atmos over DTHD takes 6-18 Mbps of bandwidth, so more work for encoders. Streaming files from home server or NAS should be played through external device connected to TV+eARC or AVR directly to get lossless Atmos.

PCM is separate from codecs. It just a digital representation of analog waveforms. Audio is generated and manipulated in PCM. Both PCM and Bitstream are capable of producing the same audio quality, and the only difference is how your setup decodes the compressed file. Compatibility with devices and supported frequencies are bigger factors to consider than sound and transmission when choosing between PCM and bitstream.
Lossless soundtrack from external sources:
1. Player set to PCM - player decodes files, converts into (L)PCM signal and sends it over HDMI cable to AVR
2. Player set to Bitstream - player reads files from UHD disk and sends raw unpacked signal over HDMI to AVR for decoding

Below is a diagram of LG C9 chipset. It shows why internal TV apps cannot output lossless audio. I hope this answers your question.

 

[gene]

Just a quick update. Yamaha confirmed my measurements but there doesn't seem to be a recourse in fixing anything. I will publish the test report as it stands and do my listening tests next to see if any of this is audible. Stay tuned....

 

[ryanosaur]

Just a quick update. Yamaha confirmed my measurements but there doesn't seem to be a recourse in fixing anything. I will publish the test report as it stands and do my listening tests next to see if any of this is audible. Stay tuned....

Right?! You've got 47 pages of us waiting on this Gene!

 

[clone1008]

Just a quick update. Yamaha confirmed my measurements but there doesn't seem to be a recourse in fixing anything. I will publish the test report as it stands and do my listening tests next to see if any of this is audible. Stay tuned....

This suspense is worse than watching a Hannity show and waiting for the breaking news that's about to happen and happen and happen....LOL

 

[Replicant 7]

Man, Gene gets to play with all the best toys!

 

[ryanosaur]

Man, Gene gets to play with all the best toys!

Us?

 

[Replicant 7]

Us?

Nice come back!

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

I would have loved to hear something different like "Yamaha will fix the ugly things in a firmware update and I will be able to get some new measurements" but it sounds it is what it is. I still like my toy a lot so unless some major issue appear the review won't make me change my amp. But I will definitively be interested to learn about the weakness of the RX-AXA amps in order to... wait for the next one

 

[ryanosaur]

I would have loved to hear something different like "Yamaha will fix the ugly things in a firmware update and I will be able to get some new measurements" but it sounds it is what it is. I still like my toy a lot so unless some major issue appear the review won't make me change my amp. But I will definitively be interested to learn about the weakness of the RX-AXA amps in order to... wait for the next one

Ha! Your next one will be a Denon!

 

[Replicant 7]

I would have loved to hear something different like "Yamaha will fix the ugly things in a firmware update and I will be able to get some new measurements" but it sounds it is what it is. I still like my toy a lot so unless some major issue appear the review won't make me change my amp. But I will definitively be interested to learn about the weakness of the RX-AXA amps in order to... wait for the next one

Oh same here, more than likely, just a guess here, something that won't be audible. I'm not giving up my RX-A4A!!

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

Ha! Your next one will be a Denon!

I had a Denon before this Yamaha. I find THIS Yamaha amp sounds way better than the Denon I had. I think every amp (at least comparing family of amps) sounds a bit different.

 

[Replicant 7]

I had a 3K NAD pre pro back in 2012, sound what's phenomenal! Guess what? HDMI issues out the wazoo!

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

Regarding my fight trying to make windows using properly the RX-A8A in Atmos I am not close to win. Until now
- I can ONLY get the RX-A8A to decode Dolby Atmos when the PC is plugged to the Samsung QN90A with eARC sound mode set to AUTO (PCM or PASSTHROUGH results in a PCM input stream). Then I suffer an awful sound delay. In this configuration I CAN'T get DTS X to be switched on in windows as the TV isn't recognized as a DTS capable device.
- If I plug the PC to the Amp, then I can use DTS X or Dolby Digital 7.1 without a huge sound delay (maybe something like 100ms) but I am not able to get the Dolby Atmos working.

So it is Atmos with delay through eARC or no Atmos at all when PC hdmi is plugged to the RX-A8A... That's boring...

 

[Replicant 7]

I had a Denon before this Yamaha. I find THIS Yamaha amp sounds way better than the Denon I had. I think every amp (at least comparing family of amps) sounds a bit different.

I can't compare Denon never owned one. Can say I've had many Onkyo's in the past, I just really love the way Yamaha's sound. My Onkyo's always needed a ice pack to keep them cool! Had a fly that landed on top my Onkyo AVR once he got fried I saw him fall off! Doesn't Denon run hot? Just jacking around Denon and Onkyo fans. I did go to a audio dealer in Lafayette last year cause I was looking at Denon's 3700, I was impressed with the sound quality very nice. It was paired up with two Martin Logan's 60's.

 

[snakeeyes]

I can't compare Denon never owned one. Can say I've had many Onkyo's in the past, I just really love the way Yamaha's sound. My Onkyo's always needed a ice pack to keep them cool! Had a fly that landed on top my Onkyo AVR once he got fried I saw him fall off! Doesn't Denon run hot? Just jacking around Denon fans. I did go to a audio dealer in Lafayette last year cause I was looking at Denon's 3700, I was impressed with the sound quality very nice. It was paired vup with two Martin Logan's 60's.

Ya maybe when Denon updates their models to the next generation they can include some fans? Or do you prefer pot holders or welding gloves? LOL

 

[Replicant 7]

Ya maybe when Denon updates their models to the next generation they can include some fans? Or do you prefer pot holders or welding gloves? LOL

Snake! Lol, oh no, we gonna get bushwacked by them Denon fans! Than if Doc comes in here he gonna tell all of us we All done wasted our money on avr's. Sure hope ole Doc is doing well.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

I hope I am not boring any of you about what I am posting about what I am trying to solve about the RX-A8A.
I found something interesting I never tried before : Windows Dolby Connect App got some "demo".
When watching any of these demo my RX-A8A finally detect DolbyAtmos/DD+ (instead of DolbyAtmos/PCM when watching things from my AppleTV). The RX-A8A sound information menu is detecting Atmos 48khz input instead of the usual Atmos/PCM 96khz input but IT'S WORKING GREAT.
So I think the issue with Dolby Atmos in games comes from the games themselves. Windows is able to send some Atmos to the amp through HDMI.

 

[ryanosaur]

I hope I am not boring any of you about what I am posting about what I am trying to solve about the RX-A8A.
I found something interesting I never tried before : Windows Dolby Connect App got some "demo".
When watching any of these demo my RX-A8A finally detect DolbyAtmos/DD+ (instead of DolbyAtmos/PCM when watching things from my AppleTV). The RX-A8A sound information menu is detecting Atmos 48khz input instead of the usual Atmos/PCM 96khz input but IT'S WORKING GREAT.
So I think the issue with Dolby Atmos in games comes from the games themselves. Windows is able to send some Atmos to the amp through HDMI.

Other than the fact I failed to convince you Yammie Heads to burn down Yamaha...

I'm just hoping we can get this up to 50+ pages before @gene posts the review!