Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[OldAndSlowDev]

Have you tried setting to small? Without extra bass?

Then I won’t have subs driven so nothing below the 45-50hz my speakers can output

 

[ryanosaur]

I am using extra bass with speakers set to large

This is one of my hang ups...
You're Speakers are not capable of producing a full range signal with a listed F3 of 40Hz. You should not be running them as Large in the first place.
The lowest XO I would advise is 60Hz, and likely you will have better SQ with XO set at 80.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

Well if you mean the in the image I attached, the ypao detected LPF would be in reference to the LFE channel. The bottom graph. Basically you can lpf, the top of the LFE signal. This is irrelevant to music since there is not a .1 channel in music, but only movies.
The extra bass I have not used for a long time. I have tried it with yamaha, Onkyo Marantz and pioneer. I don’t like it at all as it only serves to make muddy bass. Ymmv of course.
Using the extra/double bass feature you can usually select a XO filter since the mains and subs get a duplicate signal. In reality though it’s more of a HPF for the mains. Again, IMO extra bass is a mess, and using it for movies is a good way to destroy speakers.

Yes I don’t use extra bass for movies. Extra bass == use the subs without LFE encoded input based on stereo signal

 

[ryanosaur]

Then I won’t have subs driven so nothing below the 45-50hz my speakers can output

Then you are doing something wrong in your setup. I can listen in Stereo with my subs or without, depending on how I set my system, and I do sometimes go without, but more infrequently than you might think.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

This is one of my hang ups...
You're Speakers are not capable of producing a full range signal with a listed F3 of 40Hz. You should not be running them as Large in the first place.
The lowest XO I would advise is 60Hz, and likely you will have better SQ with XO set at 80.

Yes but sadly if you use extra bass with speakers set to small the RX-A6A (so the RX-A8A probably) is messing badly with signal. Check Gene video about extra bass management. To get a flat signal response you need speakers set to large.

 

[Pogre]

Have you tried setting to small? Without extra bass?

This is pretty standard and how I set mine too. I've done a lot of experimenting (I know you have too) and have measured many different results. End of the day with my speakers set to small, no double bass is the most linear and sounds the cleanest. Tho I do bump my subs a couple of dB after I get it dialed in flat and linear.

I really had never experienced accurate, linear bass before until I upgraded my subs and was floored at how much of a difference it can make with music. Everything was cleaned up from top to bottom. Once you experience clean, balanced accurate bass you get it.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

This is pretty standard and how I set mine too. I've done a lot of experimenting (I know you have too) and have measured many different results. End of the day with my speakers set to small, no double bass is the most linear and sounds the cleanest. Tho I do bump my subs a couple of dB after I get it dialed in flat and linear.

I really had never experienced accurate, linear bass before until I upgraded my subs and was floored at how much of a difference it can make with music. Everything was cleaned up from top to bottom. Once you experience clean, balanced accurate bass you get it.

Extra bass with speakers set to small

 

[ryanosaur]

Yes but sadly if you use extra bass with speakers set to small the RX-A6A (so the RX-A8A probably) is messing badly with signal. Check Gene video about extra bass management. To get a flat signal response you need speakers set to large.

Again, you should be able to have your Subs active WITHOUT the Double Bass/Large settings.
Forgive, I don't intend to come across as argumentative. IME you are doing something that is likely detrimental to the best practice, assuming there isn't something else going on we don't know about.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

There is something I seem to miss. You all speak about not using extra bass but still having benefit of subs output. I don’t get how to tell the amp to use subs for bass if no signal is driving the subwoofers.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Then I won’t have subs driven so nothing below the 45-50hz my speakers can output

I feel like something is missing here. As ryan noted, I have mine set to small, and in “stereo” mode I get 2.3 channel playback. Only when I select direct/pure direct are my subs disabled.
I believe on higher end Marantz models, you can select subs ON in 2ch direct/pure direct. I know we’re talking yamaha here. Just saying that I believe you can use subs without the extra bass setting. One reason I dislike Yamaha, is their proprietary language and odd ways of doing things. I do own an older yamaha AVR, and use a Yamaha pro amp to drive my mains, so I’m not knocking Yamaha.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

There is something I seem to miss. You all speak about not using extra bass but still having benefit of subs output. I don’t get how to tell the amp to use subs for bass if no signal is driving the subwoofers.

@snakeeyes might be able to help as he is a Yamaha-boi lol. Yes I AM kidding.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

OMG I am so stupid lol. Setting front to small with 60hz crossover without extra bass DOES use the subs. That’s what you all are trying to explain for days. Thank you ! You rock !
I feel so dumb not understanding that this setting would do exactly what I want.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

OMG I am so stupid lol. Setting front to small with 60hz crossover without extra bass DOES use the subs. That’s what you all are trying to explain for days. Thank you ! You rock !
I feel so dumb not understanding that this setting would do exactly what I want.

Hey, your avatar does say old and slow…[emoji12][emoji23][emoji12][emoji23] I kid of course.

So my question will be. How does that sound to you. I would expect some time to experiment before you can get an idea.
If you enjoy how it was before, by all means use what you like. It’s just that many of us have been down that road and we made a u-turn and came back.
FWIW. I’m glad it finally hit you.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

Hey, your avatar does say old and slow…[emoji12][emoji23][emoji12][emoji23] I kid of course.

So my question will be. How does that sound to you. I would expect some time to experiment before you can get an idea.
If you enjoy how it was before, by all means use what you like. It’s just that many of us have been down that road and we made a u-turn and came back.
FWIW. I’m glad it finally hit you.

It sounds good ! And thank you again. It’s so frustrating to try to explain something to an old and slow guy like me, but you did it !!!

 

[ryanosaur]

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Did you choose Ryan intentionally? Well done.

 

[Pogre]

There is something I seem to miss. You all speak about not using extra bass but still having benefit of subs output. I don’t get how to tell the amp to use subs for bass if no signal is driving the subwoofers.

Are you using the LFE input?

When you set your speakers to small and turn double bass off any bass below the crossover is automatically sent to your subwoofer(s). Everything above gets sent to your speakers. It's not a brick wall so there's some overlap and your speakers will still be playing bass below the crossover, but It's gradually handing off to the subs and should be a seamless transition.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It sounds good ! And thank you again. It’s so frustrating to try to explain something to an old and slow guy like me, but you did it !!!

Well it was definitely a group effort. Again, glad we got you where you needed to be.

 

[Pogre]

It sounds good ! And thank you again. It’s so frustrating to try to explain something to an old and slow guy like me, but you did it !!!

I'm caught up now. Congratulations! Lol.

 

[ryanosaur]

OK... So now, @OldAndSlowDev , get used to that a little bit, then experiment with the XO setting in the AVR. I would not advise a lower XO, however, as mentioned before a higher XO may well yield audible benefits.

For me, I started noticing it in Cymbals, first, while listening to some Jazz. The clarity of the attack and the detail of a sizzle, or a closed Hi-Hat being ridden.