Marantz AV 10 15.4CH AV Processor Bench Test Results!

[ryanosaur]

Huh?

Sometimes it's best to just not ask.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Sometimes it's best to just not ask.

Yep!

 

[everettT]

If you don't get it, that meaningful reviews of components (maybe power amplifiers excepted and CABLES, haha), must be in room, especially if software implemented, I'm finished.

How many reviews do you need of Dirac or other RC? It's been shown to work well and it's been shown to do so on products with multiple subwoofer outputs. It's like the video upscaling in these units, it rarely needs any review because most people know and understand what to expect and not.

Sorry you're giving up after a few days, maybe just reevaluate what your expectations are and if you feel you need additional info, there are plenty of forums where members post their before and after measurements of their room correction. We know pretty much everything that is needed except the latest firmware updates and any new features not previously offered.

Here is Gene's review of the Storm Audio with Dirac and information related to multiple subs. Maybe he can update the review with an ART update at some point but it is a process to swap out 13+ channels just to test the same product feature in different brands. (Which I'm not even sure ART was available when he did the physical review of the Marantz)

StormAudio ISP MK2 24CH AV Processor Review

The StormAudio ISP MK2 24CH Atmos/DTS:X/Auro 3D AV processor has the most advanced bass management & connectivity features. Our review bench tests and listening impressions reveal why it’s our 2021 POY.

www.audioholics.com

 

[PENG]

So, no in room measurements of the Marantz AV10 4 subwoofer implementation, or, as Gene has emphasized, implementation of front and left speaker bass into the LFE channel? After all, the in room results are what really matters. The AV10 implementation in room of 4 subwoofers seems to be great subjectively, based on one correspondent here, but still that testimony may not be enough to justify spending $7000, if one is upgrading from an 8802A, which does two, and not perfectly.

In theory (in practice too, imo..), it depends, if you have 4 identical subs (or have similar characteristics) that you can place them close to being equidistance for each pair in the front and rear then Audyssey Sub EQ HT can do a good job to the point it would likely make no audible difference vs using 4 independent subouts. Many will claim game changer kind of difference, but again it depends. In the HT world, new features like that typically get overrated regardless.

As far as justifying spending $7,000 to upgrade from the 8802A, again it depends...
If you can trade it in, or sell it for $2,000 (or more), then it isn't too bad. Even my much older AV8801 (though it looks like brand new) was able to get $800 (CAD), so I think the 8802A could fetch USD1500 to 2000.

The main negative of the 8802A is Audyssey, because it is not compatible with the $20 app, let alone the $200 app. Without using the app, performance of Audyssey is not that great unless you can limit the correction/eq range to say below 1,000 Hz or much lower. I am not aware of any way to do that, without the use of one of the two apps. If you don't use RC (i.e. Audyssey) anyway, then I would say the 8802A is just as good, except of course its dsp functions are limited to that of the AV10.

 

[PENG]

I am a devotee of REW, when it comes to evaluating in room bass response. I'm waiting for some evaluation of the AV10 in this regard.

I thought Gene and Matthew's newest video did show promising results, based on using the $200 MulttEQ X. To me, with the latest update, the X is better but the $20 will do fine if one doesn't mind spending more hours on it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I think it was more of a post empathizing with me and nothing against you or those that use REW religiously. I can understand the desire to empirically measure and dial things in - its in my nature too. But as a musician - like most musicians do - I tend to trust my ears at times more than measurements. So to make the right side of my brain get along with the left side, I just tend to settle in with major component changes by ear before pulling out the mics for RC and REW. And in the end, my ears win with any final tweaks post-cal, despite what the measurements tell me.

Exactly.

I always say to do REW if you can and try all Room Correction if you can.

But I will always use whatever sounds best to my ears, not whatever looks best on paper/REW.

 

[Paul McNeil]

In theory (in practice too, imo..), it depends, if you have 4 identical subs (or have similar characteristics) that you can place them close to being equidistance for each pair in the front and rear then Audyssey Sub EQ HT can do a good job to the point it would likely make no audible difference vs using 4 independent subouts. Many will claim game changer kind of difference, but again it depends. In the HT world, new features like that typically get overrated regardless.

As far as justifying spending $7,000 to upgrade from the 8802A, again it depends...
If you can trade it in, or sell it for $2,000 (or more), then it isn't too bad. Even my much older AV8801 (though it looks like brand new) was able to get $800 (CAD), so I think the 8802A could fetch USD1500 to 2000.

The main negative of the 8802A is Audyssey, because it is not compatible with the $20 app, let alone the $200 app. Without using the app, performance of Audyssey is not that great unless you can limit the correction/eq range to say below 1,000 Hz or much lower. I am not aware of any way to do that, without the use of one of the two apps. If you don't use RC (i.e. Audyssey) anyway, then I would say the 8802A is just as good, except of course its dsp functions are limited to that of the AV10.

Thanks for that helpful reply. I didn't realize the that the improvements made by the app were so significant Maybe what I need to look at is an 8805? That utilizes the app, correct? These are going for excellent prices now (I don't need the 8805A and 8k capability).

 

[multisport4me]

Thanks for that helpful reply. I didn't realize the that the improvements made by the app were so significant Maybe what I need to look at is an 8805? That utilizes the app, correct? These are going for excellent prices now (I don't need the 8805A and 8k capability).

The 8805A also loses the AKM DACs so yea, you could just do an 8805.

 

[PENG]

Thanks for that helpful reply. I didn't realize the that the improvements made by the app were so significant Maybe what I need to look at is an 8805? That utilizes the app, correct? These are going for excellent prices now (I don't need the 8805A and 8k capability).

If you can get one at deep discount, then yes.

 

[Paul McNeil]

If you can get one at deep discount, then yes.

Just to be clear, does the 8805 support both the basic ($20) and advanced ($200) app?

 

[Paul McNeil]

The 8805A also loses the AKM DACs so yea, you could just do an 8805.

Sorry, but I didn't understand this point...

 

[multisport4me]

Sorry, but I didn't understand this point...

Typically, most people covet the AKM DACs D&M used to use...until the AKM factory burned down and forced many manufacturers move to a new DAC manufacturer. If you don't care whether or not AKMs are in the thing then you can buy either one. I've owned both and can tell you that there was no discernable difference in sound quality IMO. Both were also bench'd by Amir and performed about the same on the bench.

 

[dlaloum]

In theory (in practice too, imo..), it depends, if you have 4 identical subs (or have similar characteristics) that you can place them close to being equidistance for each pair in the front and rear then Audyssey Sub EQ HT can do a good job to the point it would likely make no audible difference vs using 4 independent subouts. Many will claim game changer kind of difference, but again it depends. In the HT world, new features like that typically get overrated regardless.

As far as justifying spending $7,000 to upgrade from the 8802A, again it depends...
If you can trade it in, or sell it for $2,000 (or more), then it isn't too bad. Even my much older AV8801 (though it looks like brand new) was able to get $800 (CAD), so I think the 8802A could fetch USD1500 to 2000.

The main negative of the 8802A is Audyssey, because it is not compatible with the $20 app, let alone the $200 app. Without using the app, performance of Audyssey is not that great unless you can limit the correction/eq range to say below 1,000 Hz or much lower. I am not aware of any way to do that, without the use of one of the two apps. If you don't use RC (i.e. Audyssey) anyway, then I would say the 8802A is just as good, except of course its dsp functions are limited to that of the AV10.

I believe the 8802 has Audyssey Pro compatibility ... if so then it's "app" is available via the profesisonal installers "pro kit" with its dedicated microphone and application.

If that is the case, then a chat to a local installer who has the pro kit, would potentially provide a relatively economical, upgrade in sound quality, bringing the Audyssey configuration up to what is possible today with the latest versions. (yes these features have been available for 15 years via Audyssey Pro... basically they repackaged them for end users, and have resold them as apps)

 

[PENG]

I believe the 8802 has Audyssey Pro compatibility ... if so then it's "app" is available via the profesisonal installers "pro kit" with its dedicated microphone and application.

If that is the case, then a chat to a local installer who has the pro kit, would potentially provide a relatively economical, upgrade in sound quality, bringing the Audyssey configuration up to what is possible today with the latest versions. (yes these features have been available for 15 years via Audyssey Pro... basically they repackaged them for end users, and have resold them as apps)

Good point, I forgot about that option. If I were to go pro, I would try to find a way to pay for the kit because I wouldn't be happy to just hire the installer once or twice. Over the years I had played with different settings and target curves many times. That's just me...

 

[dlaloum]

Good point, I forgot about that option. If I were to go pro, I would try to find a way to pay for the kit because I wouldn't be happy to just hire the installer once or twice. Over the years I had played with different settings and target curves many times. That's just me...

I would too - but the pro kit is quite expensive, and then you still need to purchase the AVR pro licence as well...

If you are lucky you might be able to find an old pro kit up for sale, as they are mostly redundant nowadays.

Paying as much as a current generation AVR just for the pro kit, seems counterproductive

 

[PENG]

I would too - but the pro kit is quite expensive, and then you still need to purchase the AVR pro licence as well...

If you are lucky you might be able to find an old pro kit up for sale, as they are mostly redundant nowadays.

Paying as much as a current generation AVR just for the pro kit, seems counterproductive

That's just a what if kind of thought, fact is, there is no point going for an AV8802A if one value using room correction/eq. Even a 4000 series Denon AVR that could run the apps will be able to do a better job, in my opinion/and experience, including both subjective and objective measurements.

 

[PENG]

Just to be clear, does the 8805 support both the basic ($20) and advanced ($200) app?

100% sure, the 8805 supports both. In my experience, the $20 can do everything the $200 can to achieve sound quality improvements, but obviously the $200 app is easier to use and have much more convenience features.

By the way, there is a good review on the $200 app, by Matthew, who seemed anti Audyssey (lol) in the past, yet he now seemed converted, by the $200 App, and I would say, only because of this app, though I am almost 100% sure if he put in the effort and time, it is quite possible that he could be impressed with the results just using the $20 app too.

Audyssey MultEQ-X Pro Calibration Results for Marantz AV 10 Processor - YouTube

 

[PENG]

@Paul McNeil , just to be clear, many of us do feel the MultEQ X editor app, or the better MultEQ X app can in fact make a "significant improvement" (borrow your own words), but that's based on measurements such as using REW and the Umik-1 mic.

Keep in mind, as @AcuDefTechGuy (who has a ton of experience with Denon and Yamaha systems) said, better, best measurements and specification may not reflect what your ears/brains prefer. So it is possible that you may not prefer the improvements on paper that the 8805 with Audyssey+App can give you.

For the 15-200 Hz range though, ACDT may be one of the outlier, as most Audyssey users (based on various forum posts) do feel the bass (with some minor tweak at least) are audibly tighter and smoother though many feel Dirac Live's can do even better. Again, many seemed to prefer using no RC/EQ at all, or do their manual tweaks such as using PEQs offer by YPAO, REW, etc.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

@Paul McNeil , just to be clear, many of us do feel the MultEQ X editor app, or the better MultEQ X app can in fact make a "significant improvement" (borrow your own words), but that's based on measurements such as using REW and the Umik-1 mic.

Keep in mind, as @AcuDefTechGuy (who has a ton of experience with Denon and Yamaha systems) said, better, best measurements and specification may not reflect what your ears/brains prefer. So it is possible that you may not prefer the improvements on paper that the 8805 with Audyssey+App can give you.

For the 15-200 Hz range though, ACDT may be one of the outlier, as most Audyssey users (based on various forum posts) do feel the bass (with some minor tweak at least) are audibly tighter and smoother though many feel Dirac Live's can do even better. Again, many seemed to prefer using no RC/EQ at all, or do their manual tweaks such as using PEQs offer by YPAO, REW, etc.

The 2 biggest “issues” people have after the Auto Room Correction include 1) Subwoofer Level and Sub EQ being too flat for them and 2) Trim levels are too low and they have to Increase the Master Volume which makes people feel (misconception) like they don’t have enough “POWER”.

A lot of people want more bass and higher volume.

 

[Danzilla31]

The 2 biggest “issues” people have after the Auto Room Correction include 1) Subwoofer Level and Sub EQ being too flat for them and 2) Trim levels are too low and they have to Increase the Master Volume which makes people feel (misconception) like they don’t have enough “POWER”.

A lot of people want more bass and higher volume.

The nice thing about that is you can always tweak those 2 issues manually after the room correction does it's thing. That's what I did when I was using Audyssey