Marantz AV 10 15.4CH AV Processor Bench Test Results!

m. zillch

m. zillch

Audiophyte
It's not surprising that the Marantz AV 10 15.4CH 8K AV Processor produced excellent bench test results.

Read: Marantz AV 10 15.4CH 8K Processor Bench Test Results
Those are indeed great results, with really low noise, but still I'm curious: Did you test to see if using the "Pure Direct" feature bypasses the digitization of analog inputs, like I believe is the case with most of their units in the past?

[In some reviews I can figure this out on my own by looking at an extended range frequency response curve that goes well beyond the audible band, due to the sampling rate limitations only found with digital, but I didn't see any such super high freq. response curves in your report. Thanks.]
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Those are indeed great results, with really low noise, but still I'm curious: Did you test to see if using the "Pure Direct" feature bypasses the digitization of analog inputs, like I believe is the case with most of their units in the past?

[In some reviews I can figure this out on my own by looking at an extended range frequency response curve that goes well beyond the audible band, due to the sampling rate limitations only found with digital, but I didn't see any such super high freq. response curves in your report. Thanks.]
I think he did exactly that, you can see it in the graph below:

1701089244170.png


The AV10 seems to be the AVP to beat now, in terms of bench measurements. This is a case that can be used as an example that shows the use of a better DAC IC does not always guarantee better overall pre out SINAD.

In that measurement, it beats the Anthem AVM90 (same list price) that uses the ES9038Pro, one of the top/flagship ESS reference DAC, whereas the AV10 uses the slightly lower model, the ES9018K2M.

The Marantz DAC IC's SINAD is 2 dB lower, and DNR is 5 dB lower, but the results is expected because both DAC's specs are so good, SOTA class so they are not the weakest link in the audio chain anyway.
 
m. zillch

m. zillch

Audiophyte
Thanks. (I failed to spot that graph's frequency range upon my first reading.) So we can safely assume that claims that "digitization of incoming analog signals can not be avoided on the AV10, even if you use Direct/Pure Direct." [paraphrased] are false.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks. (I failed to spot that graph's frequency range upon my first reading.) So we can safely assume that claims that "digitization of incoming analog signals can not be avoided on the AV10" [paraphrased] are false.
Sort of, if someone qualified that with "pure direct", or even "direct", then it would be false. As you obviously know, in stereo mode with DSP functions, it definitely would get digitized, out of necessity.
 
M

multisport4me

Junior Audioholic
Sort of, if someone qualified that with "pure direct", or even "direct", then it would be false. As you obviously know, in stereo mode with DSP functions, it definitely would get digitized, out of necessity.
There was great debate and consternation about the supposed lack of a pure analog passthrough on the AV10 on avsforum. I assumed that there in fact wasn't a pure analog passthrough anymore, but didn't really care if the ADC was as transparent as Gene's measurements. But now I don't know if the rumor is even true. Does anybody know definitively whether or not the AV10 is pure analog passthrough in Pure Direct mode? I am wondering if it still does and folks are getting all riled up over a supposed feature gone missing on the AV10 (breaking the long tradition of a pure analog passthrough in previous generations of D&M processors)?
 
m. zillch

m. zillch

Audiophyte
Sort of, if someone qualified that with "pure direct", or even "direct", then it would be false. As you obviously know, in stereo mode with DSP functions, it definitely would get digitized, out of necessity.
Thanks. I fixed my post.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
There was great debate and consternation about the supposed lack of a pure analog passthrough on the AV10 on avsforum. I assumed that there in fact wasn't a pure analog passthrough anymore, but didn't really care if the ADC was as transparent as Gene's measurements. But now I don't know if the rumor is even true. Does anybody know definitively whether or not the AV10 is pure analog passthrough in Pure Direct mode? I am wondering if it still does and folks are getting all riled up over a supposed feature gone missing on the AV10 (breaking the long tradition of a pure analog passthrough in previous generations of D&M processors)?
The AV 10 absolutely has an analog bypass. Most Denon and Marantz top shelf stuff does and has for years.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The AV 10 absolutely has an analog bypass. Most Denon and Marantz top shelf stuff does and has for years.
Many online forums will start all kinds of BS talk like this.

But Audioholics will set the record straight! :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Awesome - thanks for confirming Gene.
Be clear, as I mentioned before, that is the case for direct mode and pure direct mode. In stereo, it might too if no dsp is used, not even bass management, as that's why Amir found when he reviewed the previous models, and it was a undocumented feature only.
 
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multisport4me

Junior Audioholic
Be clear, as I mentioned before, that is the case for direct mode and pure direct mode. In stereo, it might too if no dsp is used, not even bass management, as that's why Amir found when he reviewed the previous models, and it was a undocumented feature only.
Thanks Peng. Yup, I got that part and I think those questioning whether analog passthrough was there anymore also understood that to be the case. It's a non-sequitur for me as I tend to listen all of my music using DSU and Center Spread. If I go with two channel, I still like bass management at minimum and it all sounds damn good to me - I have no real reason to use analog passthrough. But its good to know the feature is still there.
 
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Deckard71

Junior Audioholic
The AV 10 absolutely has an analog bypass. Most Denon and Marantz top shelf stuff does and has for years.
Hi Gene. The new series do not have the 7.1CH IN inputs, that bypassed the internal DAC. The new series DO NOT bypass the internal DAC. I crossed many mails with Marantz and they confirmed this
 

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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Hi Gene. The new series do not have the 7.1CH IN inputs, that bypassed the internal DAC. The new series DO NOT bypass the internal DAC. I crossed many mails with Marantz and they confirmed this
No one is talking about the 7.1 ch analog inputs, that as you said, are gone. People are just talking about using the 2 ch/stereo analog inputs, in those cased, in direct and pure direct mode, the internal ADC and DAC are bypassed.
 
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Deckard71

Junior Audioholic
No one is talking about the 7.1 ch analog inputs, that as you said, are gone. People are just talking about using the 2 ch/stereo analog inputs, in those cased, in direct and pure direct mode, the internal ADC and DAC are bypassed.
Wrong. 7.1CH can be used for 2.0 of course, just using L and R inputs. I wrote Marantz to ask how could I bypass internal DAC now that they have removed the 7.1CH analog inputs and I have to use the normal RCA input. And you can see the reply: IT CANNOT BE BYPASSED

Sorry that you feel mislead. It's mentioned in previous messaging that the DSP and all processing is bypassed, but not the internal DAC. Again, apologies if that caused confusion.
 
Tankini

Tankini

Full Audioholic
Many online forums will start all kinds of BS talk like this.

But Audioholics will set the record straight! :D
Wait?! What?! Could it be so? Even the best of the best can have a slip?:)
1701377622143.png

rong. 7.1CH can be used for 2.0 of course, just using L and R inputs. I wrote Marantz to ask how could I bypass internal DAC now that they have removed the 7.1CH analog inputs and I have to use the normal RCA input. And you can see the reply: IT CANNOT BE BYPASSED
 
Tankini

Tankini

Full Audioholic
Hi Gene. The new series do not have the 7.1CH IN inputs, that bypassed the internal DAC. The new series DO NOT bypass the internal DAC. I crossed many mails with Marantz and they confirmed this
Little more clarification please what new series? A New-er AV-10?
 
M

multisport4me

Junior Audioholic
While it would be nice to know, its a non-sequitur for my needs. The analog inputs are measurably transparent.
 
Tankini

Tankini

Full Audioholic
While it would be nice to know, its a non-sequitur for my needs. The analog inputs are measurably transparent.
I been telling audio/video users that. My Yamaha Aventage has a lot of bells and whistles. I don't game and don't use/have a 8K tv. Or do I have the need for One of those fancy auto room correction apps that you can use with your PC to watch the squiggly lines go by and go oh you see I improved it by 1%.:)
 
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