Receiver and speakers upgrade

[snakeeyes]

My opinion on speakers:

$2K/Pr speakers will not have great bass, so focus on dynamics, efficiency, accuracy, and of course good sound. Don’t focus on bass too much. That’s what Subwoofers are for.

In this $2K price range, I think Speakers like DefTech and GoldenEar w/ built-in powered subs are meant for people who don’t care for big subwoofer bass. These people want Towers with “good enough Subwoofer bass” and don’t want some additional big box Subwoofers.

I used to own the big $5,000 DefTech BP7000SC (14” woofer/1800 watts). These could “rival” smaller 10” Subwoofers, which are good enough for a lot of people.

But if you’re getting Subwoofers anyway, I don’t see the point of buying these speakers.

Do you still have those DTs hiding behind the other speakers?

 

[Ken32]

My opinion on speakers:

$2K/Pr speakers will not have great bass, so focus on dynamics, efficiency, accuracy, and of course good sound. Don’t focus on bass too much. That’s what Subwoofers are for.

In this $2K price range, I think Speakers like DefTech and GoldenEar w/ built-in powered subs are meant for people who don’t care for big subwoofer bass. These people want Towers with “good enough Subwoofer bass” and don’t want some additional big box Subwoofers.

I used to own the big $5,000 DefTech BP7000SC (14” woofer/1800 watts). These could “rival” smaller 10” Subwoofers, which are good enough for a lot of people.

But if you’re getting Subwoofers anyway, I don’t see the point of buying these speakers.

I was considering also Martin Logan motion 40s based on all the positive feedback. I’m definitely not a bass junky. I appreciate a natural listening experience in direct mode. No eq, no subs. Which is why i won’t even look at bookshelf speakers (unless for surround use). I don’t want something that slams... i want something articulate, clean, accurate... etc... I’ll leave the subs for the movie watching.

 

[2channel lover]

That’s one awesome looking setup! It was me that mentioned the ML i love the way the 40s look, and B&W, unfortunately Best Buy is all i have (3 hours away). And Barney miller. I listened to 10,000 dollar paradigm speakers and was not impressed. I haven’t met a paradigm speaker i like. And goldenear to me was just meh.... I’ve mentioned Aperion Grand Verus ll... nobody has been bringing them up? They’ve got tons of awards and positive reviews and flat out look sexy.

Thanks....labor of love.

The Persona Series may be what you're talking about with Paradigm...I've heard the 7F or whatever the smaller Floorstander is...it's a very good speaker, but lacks the low end to be a true 2.0 speaker in a larger room...kind of the same view of the B&W 804D3...does a lot of things well, but for that kind of money you shouldn't "need" a sub, and in both cases, those speakers do imo, especially for bass heavy music. My 3-way Salks delivered equal bass 2.0 for less than half the price.

Aperion...good point. I've heard good things, but no experience of my own. I liked the GE One, butnot as high on the styling...bass numbers maybe are inflated...didn't seem to go as deep as I was expecting from the measurements.

If I hadn't bought the Salks, my next choice was a close call between the Monitor Audio Gold 300 and the Revel F208.

 

[everettT]

I don’t think def tech offers in home, but Best Buy has a return policy after a couple weeks i believe. The more i look at Salk, the more it worries. I just cannot fathom spending 2k on speakers and not being able to return them if i don’t like them. I think I’ll order the def tech and Aperion Audio and compare side by side! Send the lesser back and order a few more pair to demo.

Which kind of receiver do you all have in mind for a good upgrade? I do plan on adding an amp slowly..... lol (don’t want to overwhelm the woman!) i was thinking denon? Marantz? SR7012 or the x6300h on sale half off i think? I’ll have to check again...

You wouldnt be disappointed in the salks. You feed them a quality recording and they will make you smile. Email Jim and see if he has anything for immediate delivery and ask about a return policy for them. He is great to work with

 

[Ken32]

You wouldnt be disappointed in the salks. You feed them a quality recording and they will make you smile. Email Jim and see if he has anything for immediate delivery and ask about a return policy for them. He is great to work with

I emailed Jim today. I suspect I’ll hear back in a day or two and take it from there.

 

[Ken32]

Thanks....labor of love.

The Persona Series may be what you're talking about with Paradigm...I've heard the 7F or whatever the smaller Floorstander is...it's a very good speaker, but lacks the low end to be a true 2.0 speaker in a larger room...kind of the same view of the B&W 804D3...does a lot of things well, but for that kind of money you shouldn't "need" a sub, and in both cases, those speakers do imo, especially for bass heavy music. My 3-way Salks delivered equal bass 2.0 for less than half the price.

Aperion...good point. I've heard good things, but no experience of my own. I liked the GE One, butnot as high on the styling...bass numbers maybe are inflated...didn't seem to go as deep as I was expecting from the measurements.

If I hadn't bought the Salks, my next choice was a close call between the Monitor Audio Gold 300 and the Revel F208.

I love that there’s so much to choose from, but at the same time i hate it lol. I’ll demo several, compare and decide.

 

[Ken32]

I’m going to order a receiver in the next day or two.... The sales people at Best Buy keep recommending pioneer elite sclx502.... class D amps in it. How do they compare to A/B? Denon, marantz, Onkyo, etc...? I understand they’re less on power consumption, and supposedly more efficient... but what about overall sound quality? Compared to denon x4400h or similar marantz.... I’m trying to understand the concept of this a little better for home audio.

 

[2channel lover]

I’m going to order a receiver in the next day or two.... The sales people at Best Buy keep recommending pioneer elite sclx502.... class D amps in it. How do they compare to A/B? Denon, marantz, Onkyo, etc...? I understand they’re less on power consumption, and supposedly more efficient... but what about overall sound quality? Compared to denon x4400h or similar marantz.... I’m trying to understand the concept of this a little better for home audio.

"I plan on doing Atmos eventually (in ceiling) My room is roughly 18x21 and I’ll be using this setup for 50/50 movies and music."

If the PIO allows you to enjoy Atmos now and expand power via pre-outs...it's a steal....if it doesn't, the price is such that you can upgrade it later...I like the move of putting the bigger share of the funds into the speakers if that's where you're headed.

 

[Ken32]

"I plan on doing Atmos eventually (in ceiling) My room is roughly 18x21 and I’ll be using this setup for 50/50 movies and music."

If the PIO allows you to enjoy Atmos now and expand power via pre-outs...it's a steal....if it doesn't, the price is such that you can upgrade it later...I like the move of putting the bigger share of the funds into the speakers if that's where you're headed.

That’s exactly where I’m headed! The pioneer is a 7.2 channel that does Atmos and Dts:X.

 

[2channel lover]

That’s exactly where I’m headed! The pioneer is a 7.2 channel that does Atmos and Dts:X.

I'm a noted music lover that can appreciate a good movie. The speakers have the most impact on the outcome imo...especially so for music...I think I demoed maybe 20 or so and of those I was pretty serious about 3 of them.

For a 50/50 buyer, I think you can do pretty well in the $2k price point, but I also think you'll appreciate stepping up the budget as well and you won't suffer on the movie side....on that end, a seamless and equally capable front 3 is a bigger deal than I imagined, and even more so the subs. That's where you get the bang for your buck.

I was at a friend's place recently and he had a nice setup...4 Klipsch floorstanders with a center channel...he had a Klipsch sub...Of course you know how we are with our toys...he wanted to show off his system. He was way under subbed for that size space. He was turning it up nearly full blast and it would give you that boom effect, but little did he know his sub was struggling, bottoming out, etc.

I didn't have the heart to tell him his sub was weak....I digress.

 

[snakeeyes]

I'm a noted music lover that can appreciate a good movie. The speakers have the most impact on the outcome imo...especially so for music...I think I demoed maybe 20 or so and of those I was pretty serious about 3 of them.

For a 50/50 buyer, I think you can do pretty well in the $2k price point, but I also think you'll appreciate stepping up the budget as well and you won't suffer on the movie side....on that end, a seamless and equally capable front 3 is a bigger deal than I imagined, and even more so the subs. That's where you get the bang for your buck.

I was at a friend's place recently and he had a nice setup...4 Klipsch floorstanders with a center channel...he had a Klipsch sub...Of course you know how we are with our toys...he wanted to show off his system. He was way under subbed for that size space. He was turning it up nearly full blast and it would give you that boom effect, but little did he know his sub was struggling, bottoming out, etc.

I didn't have the heart to tell him his sub was weak....I digress.

A nice sub is a real treat. Nobody needs to put up with a bad one. Especially if the rest of the system is strong.
I haven’t heard any distortion on my Rythmik LVX12 yet. It goes low enough for my needs. I bought it based on customer testimonials and research here and at AVS. The other sub I was looking at buying at the time was HSU ULS15 but it cost more with shipping. I’m sure that would have been a great sub for me as well.

 

[Ken32]

I'm a noted music lover that can appreciate a good movie. The speakers have the most impact on the outcome imo...especially so for music...I think I demoed maybe 20 or so and of those I was pretty serious about 3 of them.

For a 50/50 buyer, I think you can do pretty well in the $2k price point, but I also think you'll appreciate stepping up the budget as well and you won't suffer on the movie side....on that end, a seamless and equally capable front 3 is a bigger deal than I imagined, and even more so the subs. That's where you get the bang for your buck.

I was at a friend's place recently and he had a nice setup...4 Klipsch floorstanders with a center channel...he had a Klipsch sub...Of course you know how we are with our toys...he wanted to show off his system. He was way under subbed for that size space. He was turning it up nearly full blast and it would give you that boom effect, but little did he know his sub was struggling, bottoming out, etc.

I didn't have the heart to tell him his sub was weak....I digress.

I have not heard high end klipsch, however i have heard rf7 and 7ii, and lower from there. I hate them. No, i loathe them entirely lol. It sounded like nails being driven into ears. IMO their subs are weak. Heard them, don’t care for those either. When the time comes for a sub I’ll probably start off with a svs pb2000 series and then slowly add a second. Or if the miss is ok a single pb16ultra

 

[Ken32]

A nice sub is a real treat. Nobody needs to put up with a bad one. Especially if the rest of the system is strong.
I haven’t heard any distortion on my Rythmik LVX12 yet. It goes low enough for my needs. I bought it based on customer testimonials and research here and at AVS. The other sub I was looking at buying at the time was HSU ULS15 but it cost more with shipping. I’m sure that would have been a great sub for me as well.

You know.... i completely forgot about rythmik and outlaw subs. I’ve listed above the ones i am interested in... but I’ll go ahead and check these other two out as well. If I’m not mistaken, i think outlaw has its hands in with HSU? Or maybe i just made that up? Lol

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you still have those DTs hiding behind the other speakers?

Nope. Sold them all long ago.

 

[lovinthehd]

You know.... i completely forgot about rythmik and outlaw subs. I’ve listed above the ones i am interested in... but I’ll go ahead and check these other two out as well. If I’m not mistaken, i think outlaw has its hands in with HSU? Or maybe i just made that up? Lol

Hsu had a hand in an older design, someone else's is used now IIRC a comment @shadyJ made when I asked that question recently....but can't find...

 

[shadyJ]

Hsu had a hand in an older design, someone else's is used now IIRC a comment @shadyJ made when I asked that question recently....but can't find...

Correct, Outlaw's present design are entirely their own. However the form factor that Hsu devised for them with the original LFM does persist, i.e., down-firing, dual-ported, variable tuned.

 

[2channel lover]

I have not heard high end klipsch, however i have heard rf7 and 7ii, and lower from there. I hate them. No, i loathe them entirely lol. It sounded like nails being driven into ears. IMO their subs are weak. Heard them, don’t care for those either. When the time comes for a sub I’ll probably start off with a svs pb2000 series and then slowly add a second. Or if the miss is ok a single pb16ultra

I'm not real sure which model he had, but I don't think they were the upper end of the line. Most people that like the B&W sound probably wouldn't care much for the Klipsch sound and vice versa....at the same time both have very loyal owners.

Not to sound like an audio snob. I said his system was nice, and it is, but not to my taste. The sub was just notably weak and watching him crank it up to show it off was amusing...again, I wasn't going to be the guy to tell him....now if he ever comes over to my place for a listen...maybe we'll talk about it then.

There are so many great direct sell subs companies now that it's hard to go wrong SVS, HSU, Rythmik among others...I went with HSU because they seemed to be a pretty good value with their 2 for deal and the sales guy was great to work with.

I bought two VTF3 mk5 instead of going with the larger VTF 15h MK2...The sales guy said the 15H mk2 will absolutely be enough sub, but ideal placement for premium performance is important. Two can offer better coverage.

 

[2channel lover]

A nice sub is a real treat. Nobody needs to put up with a bad one. Especially if the rest of the system is strong.
I haven’t heard any distortion on my Rythmik LVX12 yet. It goes low enough for my needs. I bought it based on customer testimonials and research here and at AVS. The other sub I was looking at buying at the time was HSU ULS15 but it cost more with shipping. I’m sure that would have been a great sub for me as well.

You shouldn't have any issues with your Rythmik...if you do decide to pair it up at some point, I would keep both the same model or something close in specs...not sure if your LVX12 is sealed or ported but I wouldn't mix that either.

 

[snakeeyes]

You shouldn't have any issues with your Rythmik...if you do decide to pair it up at some point, I would keep both the same model or something close in specs...not sure if your LVX12 is sealed or ported but I wouldn't mix that either.

I have a Rythmik LVX12 ported 12 in my 5.1 theater room. Not sure I would need 2 in only 2600 cubic feet but identical is the way to go for sure.
I do think HSU is a great company as well but I would not have any reason to not buy Rythmik again . In fact, I have a Rythmik L12 sealed 12 in my 1400 cubic feet bedroom that I also really love.

 

[2channel lover]

I have a Rythmik LVX12 ported 12 in my 5.1 theater room. Not sure I would need 2 in only 2600 cubic feet but identical is the way to go for sure.
I do think HSU is a great company as well but I would not have any reason to not buy Rythmik again . In fact, I have a Rythmik L12 sealed 12 in my 1400 cubic feet bedroom that I also really love.

I have 2800 cu ft roughly...and two HSU VTF 3mk5 subs...I'm picky on music. Initially I had one sub on the TV wall and the other near field behind the MLP...oh I loved it! But, the bass was very much telegraphed along the TV wall...bringing the near field sub to the TV fixed that problem...even bass now from anywhere in the room.