Buying Advice: Please help Compare Ascend Acoustics ELX Towers vs Focal Sopra N1 vs Perlisten S4B

[Eppie]

@rimmi2002 Is that an acoustically transparent screen? Would you consider replacing it with one? From the photos, you have very limited space for tower speakers or stand mounts because of the doorway left of the screen and the inability to move them away from the wall. I am leaning with AcuDefTechGuy and thinking that in-wall or on-wall would be best if you want to keep the screen the same size, otherwise you may need to downsize the screen to leave room for speakers. An acoustically transparent screen lets you mount the speakers behind the screen, which not only hides them from view but you can place them at the proper height.

As to brands, I only have experience with Paradigm but given your budget I would be looking at Perlisten, RBH, Focal and KEF. Try and find impedance graphs if you can so that the impedance does not dip too low for your Onkyo, or consider a 3 channel amp to drive the front 3 (assuming your AVR has pre-outs). The Perlisten in-walls would be a big upgrade from the Sierra 2.

 

[little wing]

There is a thick shag rug between the couches 7 'x 10'. Not visible in picture. Are you suggesting shag rug for a larger area?

Any good suggestions for inwall / on wall speakers?

Is the main reason for suggesting inwall / onwall because you think it will be difficult to get enough distance from the back wall to speakers in this setup? If so I can try experimenting by moving my current speakers to an ideal position that you can suggest and see how they do (they might come in the way for now, but can help me learn the best potential of the space / speakers)

If I were to find front ported speakers could I install them flush mount with the wall (i can build something out) and would they work well also?




Thanks man. Great to hear that. I didn't know the were based out of San Clemente. I live in Nor. Cal. I'll check them out next time I am in So. Cal.

Yes, they will be glad to have you in for a listen. I demoed music in Dolby surround with the Horizon center and then just two channel. They have an incredible Tidal playlist for you to use. I don't know much about mesauremnets but voices and instruments seem to extend beyond the speakers and out into the room. They image will too.

 

[TankTop5]

I haven't heard the Ascend speakers, but I have spent time with the Sopra No.1 and Perlisten S4b. Both are terrific speakers. I would say that the Sopras are the ones to get if you aren't using a subwoofer, but the Perlistens are the ones to get if you are using a sub. The Perlisten speakers will have a big advantage in dynamic range, but they give up low-frequency extension to achieve that.

I auditioned Revel BE’s and S7T’s side by side in a very high end custom theater. My only fault with the Perlisten’s was in 2 channel, they have laser pinpoint sweet spot but that is a non issue in a multi channel setup.

I haven’t spent time with Sopra’s but I’ve used many different Focals in 2 channel home theater. Huge sweet spot and the imaging is uncanny awesome. Very enveloping movie experience.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

1. There is a thick shag rug between the couches 7 'x 10'. Not visible in picture. Are you suggesting shag rug for a larger area?

2. Any good suggestions for inwall / on wall speakers?

3. Is the main reason for suggesting inwall / onwall because you think it will be difficult to get enough distance from the back wall to speakers in this setup? If so I can try experimenting by moving my current speakers to an ideal position that you can suggest and see how they do (they might come in the way for now, but can help me learn the best potential of the space / speakers)

4. If I were to find front ported speakers could I install them flush mount with the wall (i can build something out) and would they work well also?

1. I would get enough rug (s) to cover the entire room.

2. Too many options. RBH, KEF, B&W, Martin-Logan, etc.

3. Also gives you more space, might improve sound acoustics.

4. No. Standalone speakers, in-wall, and on-wall speakers are all designed differently. So you need to buy the correct speakers to match the installation type.

 

[TLS Guy]

@rimmi2002 Is that an acoustically transparent screen? Would you consider replacing it with one? From the photos, you have very limited space for tower speakers or stand mounts because of the doorway left of the screen and the inability to move them away from the wall. I am leaning with AcuDefTechGuy and thinking that in-wall or on-wall would be best if you want to keep the screen the same size, otherwise you may need to downsize the screen to leave room for speakers. An acoustically transparent screen lets you mount the speakers behind the screen, which not only hides them from view but you can place them at the proper height.

As to brands, I only have experience with Paradigm but given your budget I would be looking at Perlisten, RBH, Focal and KEF. Try and find impedance graphs if you can so that the impedance does not dip too low for your Onkyo, or consider a 3 channel amp to drive the front 3 (assuming your AVR has pre-outs). The Perlisten in-walls would be a big upgrade from the Sierra 2.

I agree with you. His only realistic solution is a smaller screen or inwalls. An inwall solution has to be top of the list for his situation. That will look and sound the best. That situation he has is crying out for an inwall solution. Done properly, they sound really good. We just love ours, especially my wife who uses it for hours. It really intrigues visitors as well.

The other option is to make the screen smaller, but the speakers will still be somewhat in the way of that door. If he goes with towers he should take a good look at the KEF Meta range. They use coaxial drivers, and since they watch a lot of movies a coaxial based system has a lot to recommend it as speech is clear and natural. Member Squishman who lives near has KEF Metas and they sound very good.

The real issue for in wall, is knowing what is in and behind the wall, if the OP could enlighten us about that it would be really helpful.

A complete in wall 3.1 system including sub, not taking any floor space.

 

[ski2xblack]

@rimmi2002 Yes, to your unanswered question upthread, it appears TLS confused the RT60 with the freq response. The fr looks pretty good. The RT60 can be compared to before and after you add rugs, acoustic treatments and other clutter to the room.

I agree with the gist of the other's feedback. Given the constraints of the room, your best case scenario might allow for but a small bubble of goodness. If you can keep your expectations to that, I think you can get there by following the advice given re room/setup.

So get those L and R mains oriented correctly and flanking the screen. A smaller screen is warranted to accommodate that, and also may help with center channel placement options (below screen preferable, considering you're lowering the L and R). Treat that wall with the door to the left of the couch, for the reasons Shady gave. A bookshelf full of books and knickknacks, as opposed to acoustic panels, might help with WAF and will be just as effective. More carpet/rugs (with padding). If possible, pull the couch forward and off the wall, even if just a bit (sure, there's pretty limited wiggle room in there, but the wall directly behind the mlp isn't doing you any favors). Do all that and you should be able to conjure a more near-field-ish bubble of goodness where the system does what you expect. That's probably the best you could hope for, given the room and layout.

The limitations undermine the utility of an expensive speaker upgrade. If you do all of the above and still want to "upgrade" the speakers, maybe consider an in-wall approach as suggested. For free standing speakers, in what appears to be a lively acoustic space (at least as presently decorated), I would probably have some of the more warmly voiced, very room friendly KEFs on the list.

Good luck with it.

 

[rimmi2002]

Thank you Eppie, Ski, TLS, AcuDefTechguy for your input.


@ski2xblack @TLS Guy @Eppie
Decreasing the screen size is definitely an option. If I do, I will buy an AT (acoustically transparent) screen—my current one is not. Also benefit of AT screen is that I can hide a lot of treatment behind without concern for aestheics.

I'm thinking 120" instead of the 150" I have now. Also, I can remove that door (we never close it), which would create some space. But I would still need to downsize the screen, otherwise the left speaker would be right by the door. Curious I have heard from some that AT screen can alter speaker acoustics. Myth of true?

@ski2xblack @TLS Guy because I was thinking perhaps I was misinterpreting the RT60 graph. I'm still curious, though, since I don't understand the dip between 100 to 200 myself... Is that because the fronts aren't creating enough bass, so the signal is weaker than it should be, or is something just really efficient at absorbing that? Thinking out loud, the only issue with the front three not creating enough bass between 100–200 Hz is that the SPL in that area is good.

The wall behind the movie screen faces the exterior. I have never opened it but its most liekly 2x4 studs possibly 2x6 and insulation in it. I might do away with insulation in the area where I am going to place the speakers if I do AT.

@TankTop5

Thanks for that insight. I felt that way about the Sopra's I listened to as well. It was a 2.1 setup but for movies it had a huge sweet spot.




Lastly I do actually have decent bit of flexibility in moving the subs. Do you think REW version of the crawl test can work so I don't have to move these ~150lb+ subs all around. where I can place one sub in main listening position and go take REW measurements (With no PEQ) and all potential placement positions to see which might be top 2 candidates?

 

[ski2xblack]

Well, if sealing off that door is an option, you could reorient the whole rig 90 degrees. Seriously consider it. You can do far better with the longitudinal orientation than what you're currently trying. Then speakers such as the Perlistens would make much more sense, where in the present orientation they would just be expensive lipstick on a pig.

AT screens do tend to reduce high freq a tiny bit. You should be able to get that info, as it may alter speaker choice. You probaby wouldn't want an already rolled off top end of the KEF Metas behind an AT screen for example.

Yes, do the sub crawl, note the best possible locations. The better you can get things via placement, and the better your speakers, the easier the task for whatever room correction you're using. Didn't you mention having a miniDSP? Presumably REW/Omnimic as well? Crawling for bass and some manual OCD calibration can give better results than most automagic room correction IME. I am a luddite, for full disclosure.

I wouldn't worry too much about room treatments at this point, particularly if you reorient the whole rig. More rugs, more art on the walls, and more general domestic clutter will provide good acoustics.

 

[Golfx]

I have not heard the Focal or the Perlisten speakers, but I was in the San Clemente area last year on business and had an opportunity to go by the Ascend office and listen to the ELX towers. It is a fantastic sounding speaker. They put up with me listening in thier demo room for about an hour and a half, LOL. Great people, by the way. Anyway, the highs were clean and clear without any fatigue. The mids were rich and sounded great, and as far as the bass, I could see myself listening to alot of music in Pure Direct with no sub.

Might not be much help to you as far as a comparison, but just wanted to give you my insight. I still use the older Ascend towers and love them, but the ELX would be an upgrade for sure.

Are the ELX towers the same speaker as the Sierra 2ELX?

 

[rimmi2002]

Well, if sealing off that door is an option, you could reorient the whole rig 90 degrees. Seriously consider it. You can do far better with the longitudinal orientation than what you're currently trying. Then speakers such as the Perlistens would make much more sense, where in the present orientation they would just be expensive lipstick on a pig.

AT screens do tend to reduce high freq a tiny bit. You should be able to get that info, as it may alter speaker choice. You probaby wouldn't want an already rolled off top end of the KEF Metas behind an AT screen for example.

Yes, do the sub crawl, note the best possible locations. The better you can get things via placement, and the better your speakers, the easier the task for whatever room correction you're using. Didn't you mention having a miniDSP? Presumably REW/Omnimic as well? Crawling for bass and some manual OCD calibration can give better results than most automagic room correction IME. I am a luddite, for full disclosure.

I wouldn't worry too much about room treatments at this point, particularly if you reorient the whole rig. More rugs, more art on the walls, and more general domestic clutter will provide good acoustics.

Oh sorry I didn't mean it like that. I need the opening for that door. Its the only way into the room from the inside, but I don't need the actual door. Removing it can make more room for the speakers to the left of the screen cause the door opens into the wall next to the screen taking up 2-3'.

Yes I have a minidsp and umik microphone. I used many manual PEAK filters (I think all are negative gain) and ~2 or 3 all pass filters to get the curve I shared earlier. Dirac's curve had way too many peaks.

 

[Golfx]

Which ascend speakers are you looking at? I can not find a Ascend Sierra 2EXL.

 

[rimmi2002]

Which ascend speakers are you looking at? I can not find a Ascend Sierra 2EXL.

It should be Acsend ELX Towers + its matching Horizon Center. I miswrote the names in the original post. Fixed now.

 

[everettT]

It should be Acsend ELX Towers + its matching Horizon Center. I miswrote the names in the original post. Fixed now.

If you're happy with your current speakers, the Ascend towers make since for you and your budget. Since using they started using a Klippel NFS their products have only gotten better, especially the Horizon center.

If you need more output and lower extension, I'd look at Revel and Kef towers as another option as they are also room friendly and in your budget .