Help! I need to pick a new Subwoofer and speakers!

[Wardog555]

Don't go with wireless subwoofer. I've seen one person who tried a wireless adapter and it caused alot of issues like connectivity drop outs etc and eventually returned the wireless adapter and just ran a single rca cable to the back of the room. No issues whatsoever with going wired.

 

[-Jim-]

Don't go with wireless subwoofer. I've seen one person who tried a wireless adapter and it caused alot of issues like connectivity drop outs etc and eventually returned the wireless adapter and just ran a single rca cable to the back of the room. No issues whatsoever with going wired.

Totally disagree. I have a wireless Sub in the Family Room as my wife objected to cables. We've had zero issues for about 4 years. Proven technology.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've used subs with built in wireless receivers (Infinity Classia 310) without particular issue altho currently just use them wired....once in a while I might put one out on the deck to supplement the outdoor speakers in good weather, tho. The inherent delay could be an issue, maybe.

 

[-Jim-]

Hey audio gurus, I know you all are thinking of optimal placement of the surround sound speakers, but it would be SO much more convenient to use the pre-wired ports in the room. I would not want to make new holes in the walls to connect the surround sound speakers. I recently painted the walls with satin paint (so it was more easily washable - dogs!). The problems with satin is touchups are vey noticeable. That means it is you nik the paint or make a hole and have to resurface around it, you have to paint the ENTIRE wall to make it look OK. And that wall is about 20' high and would cost alot to repaint it. I am thinking I would sacrifice sound quality than go through the cost and struggle of creating new holes in the walls. That being said, if I decided to run the wires without cutting into the walls, I would not want to run a wire on or around the fireplace hearth. I also would not want to run a wire across the floor to the back wall. So only one of the 4 surround sound speakers (front right) is easily wired without major problems if not using the pre-wired ports. With that in mind, what do your think would give me the best surround sound from speakers I could connect to those ports?

IMHO you are going to lose a tremendous amount by going with the speaker locations where the Cubes are. One knows you have to do something sometimes to improve things; and repositioning the speakers correctly is one of them here. The original Bose install was poorly thought out. Although unobtrusive, I bet they sounded poor. I'm betting that as an Engineer, you will appreciate design specifications, and we are trying to get your system somewhat into compliance.

I would suggest once you take delivery of your new speakers, temporarily wire them into the Bose Locations with wall brackets and see if you are satisfied. If you are happy then great - you are done. If not, then come back and we'll help you sort it out moving them. (Of course if you go to in walls for the surrounds, you won't need a bracket for them, just your L&R front speakers.) The Center needs to go under the TV if possible, or on top with a bracket.

Thanks for all the great information. With a wireless SUB, would it both a wireless connection to the AVR? It would not be connected wirelessly to the surround sound speakers, right? That is just a Bose thing having the speaking go through the subwoofer I think. I guess the speakers would be wired to the AVR.

Yes, Bose had everything connect through the Sub. Not with your new Sub with a wireless kit. Then a wireless Sub transmitter connects to the Sub RCA output of your Receiver, and the Wireless Sub Receiver connects to the new Sub. The remaining 5 speakers also connect to the receiver.

Wireless Surround speakers sound great at first blush, until you take a good look at them. The ones I've seen (like SVS) all have a built in amplifier in one of the speakers and that one needs to be plugged in to power. And then a speaker cable connects it to the other unpowered speaker to drive it. So there's wires to both of them. Don't get me wrong, there are applications where these work.

Like in our Dining Room where we play background tunes from an iPhone on Bluetooth, or Spotify via an Amazon Dot3 so anyone can tell it what song to play. The wireless speakers also have a small 10 inch Sub.

They also work fine at my Mom's condo as she didn't want to bother with surround speaker wires, but she did let me put 4 of her small bookshelves on Stands at the proper height. (Did I tell you I'm an Audioholic; and I know I have a problem... )

 

[Replicant 7]

Yep, very similar indeed!!

 

[mvp]

Hey Audioholics, I am trying to compare HSU and SVS subwoofers in a comparison table (attached). Can any of you help explain what all the terms are that I am comparing? Any help would be most appreciated.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hey Audioholics, I am trying to compare HSU and SVS subwoofers in a comparison table (attached). Can any of you help explain what all the terms are that I am comparing? Any help would be most appreciated.

Be better if the svs subs had the information filled out for each field....

 

[shadyJ]

Hey Audioholics, I am trying to compare HSU and SVS subwoofers in a comparison table (attached). Can any of you help explain what all the terms are that I am comparing? Any help would be most appreciated.

There is a lot behind those specs, and a lot of ways to misread those specs. I can only say a few things. First, don't pay too much attention to wattage, either RMS or short-term. The system type (ported or sealed), sensitivity of the driver, and enclosure size have more to say about overall performance than how much wattage is on tap. Second, driver size can also be misleading. Just because a sub has a bigger driver does not make it a better performer, much like wattage. For example, that 13" driver on the SVS is a real beast, comparable in performance to many 15"s. On the other hand, some 15" drivers out there aren't all that amazing. The Hsu sub has a pretty good 15".

If you are primarily interested in performance, you should be looking at performance measurements rather than build specs. The most commonly used performance metric for subwoofers is called CEA-2010. This metric shows you how much output the sub can produce within a certain distortion threshold for a certain frequency. Hsu has these numbers on their products page and the SVS numbers can be seen in reviews. Keep in mind that the Hsu sub can be configured to run in single port or dual ported operation, and this does change the potential performance. I'll make it easy for you and just post a table, since some math has to be done on these numbers to make them comparable.

Frequency (Hz)	VTF-3 mk5 (1 port)	PB-2000	VTF-3 mk5 (2 port)	PB-3000
16	99	93.8	97.8	96.2
20	105.4	105.1	105.2	108.3
25	110.1	111.8	110.4	113.3
31	113.6	113.2	115.2	114.9
40	117.1	113.7	118.9	118
50	117.5	113.6	119.3	119.6
63	116.8	113.4	118.1	118.6
80	116.4	113.1	117.4	117.8

It should be mentioned that these numbers aren't exactly comparable since testing conditions can change somewhat from test to test, but I would say they should be good within +/-1dB.

 

[mvp]

There is a lot behind those specs, and a lot of ways to misread those specs. I can only say a few things. First, don't pay too much attention to wattage, either RMS or short-term. The system type (ported or sealed), sensitivity of the driver, and enclosure size have more to say about overall performance than how much wattage is on tap. Second, driver size can also be misleading. Just because a sub has a bigger driver does not make it a better performer, much like wattage. For example, that 13" driver on the SVS is a real beast, comparable in performance to many 15"s. On the other hand, some 15" drivers out there aren't all that amazing. The Hsu sub has a pretty good 15".

If you are primarily interested in performance, you should be looking at performance measurements rather than build specs. The most commonly used performance metric for subwoofers is called CEA-2010. This metric shows you how much output the sub can produce within a certain distortion threshold for a certain frequency. Hsu has these numbers on their products page and the SVS numbers can be seen in reviews. Keep in mind that the Hsu sub can be configured to run in single port or dual ported operation, and this does change the potential performance. I'll make it easy for you and just post a table, since some math has to be done on these numbers to make them comparable.

Frequency (Hz)	VTF-3 mk5 (1 port)	PB-2000	VTF-3 mk5 (2 port)	PB-3000
16	99	93.8	97.8	96.2
20	105.4	105.1	105.2	108.3
25	110.1	111.8	110.4	113.3
31	113.6	113.2	115.2	114.9
40	117.1	113.7	118.9	118
50	117.5	113.6	119.3	119.6
63	116.8	113.4	118.1	118.6
80	116.4	113.1	117.4	117.8

It should be mentioned that these numbers aren't exactly comparable since testing conditions can change somewhat from test to test, but I would say they should be good within +/-1dB.

This is alot of Great Information!! I am trying to understand what this means. Does it mean that with 1 port closed and 1 open on the VTF-3 MK5 that it performs about the save as the PB-2000 and that with 2 ports open the VTF-3 MK5 it performs about the save as the PB-3000?
Thank you for all your help!!

 

[shadyJ]

This is alot of Great Information!! I am trying to understand what this means. Does it mean that with 1 port closed and 1 open on the VTF-3 MK5 that it performs about the save as the PB-2000 and that with 2 ports open the VTF-3 MK5 it performs about the save as the PB-3000?
Thank you for all your help!!

It means that in deep bass, i.e., 20-25Hz, the VTF-3 is on par with the PB-2000 in either mode, although it does do a bit more really deep bass, 16Hz. You can give up some deep bass output for more midbass output by opening both ports (and using the appropriate setting on the amp panel). That will make it a bit punchier, and it keeps up with the PB-3000 in midbass with both ports open. It can not quite match the PB-3000 in deep bass, 20-25Hz, but it does match it in super deep bass, 16Hz. Basically, the VTF-3 has the midbass output of the PB-3000 with the deep bass output of the PB-2000, and it can dip a tad deeper than both.

 

[mvp]

It means that in deep bass, i.e., 20-25Hz, the VTF-3 is on par with the PB-2000 in either mode, although it does do a bit more really deep bass, 16Hz. You can give up some deep bass output for more midbass output by opening both ports (and using the appropriate setting on the amp panel). That will make it a bit punchier, and it keeps up with the PB-3000 in midbass with both ports open. It can not quite match the PB-3000 in deep bass, 20-25Hz, but it does match it in super deep bass, 16Hz. Basically, the VTF-3 has the midbass output of the PB-3000 with the deep bass output of the PB-2000, and it can dip a tad deeper than both.

So much to learn!! Does that mean the VTF-3 is a better product that the PB2000 or PB3000?
I spoke to Kevin at HSU today, trying to learn about their product. He said that they don't have a wireless device for the VTF-3 but he thought the SVS wireless device would work on the VTF-3. Have you tried to see if it works?

 

[mvp]

After speaking to both HSU and SVS, I noticed a difference in shipping/returns/etc.
For SVS, there is free shipping both to your house and also back to them if you don't like the unit. And you have 45 days to return it.
For HSU, the shipping cost is $115 to me and then a higher amount (TBD) if I want to return it and I have 30 days to return it.
The HSU prices for subwoofers seem to be lower than SVS but I the policy for shipping (especially for returns) makes me nervous of getting HSU. What do you all think?

 

[lovinthehd]

Why I mentioned about value being sometimes different among the brands....personally I'd be very unlikely to return a sub I'd chosen so that part of their offer wouldn't mean much to me; they also have a nice upgrade program with credit for your old sub and they can help with logistics so that might be also of interest to you (already done my working my way up thru various subs where I'd be unlikely to take advantage of this service as well). Reading the whole SVS "bill of rights" might yield other tidbits I'm not thinking of. SVS is largely thought of as having the best customer service package among the internet direct sub/speaker folk, but of course in the long run you will pay for it to an extent (ain't no such thing as free shipping). I think the Hsu beats out the SVS models you posted on a strict $ basis....but I'm not shopping either.

 

[shadyJ]

So much to learn!! Does that mean the VTF-3 is a better product that the PB2000 or PB3000?
I spoke to Kevin at HSU today, trying to learn about their product. He said that they don't have a wireless device for the VTF-3 but he thought the SVS wireless device would work on the VTF-3. Have you tried to see if it works?

I would say that overall the VTF-3 is a higher performer than the PB-2000 but not quite on the level of the PB-3000 but very close.

The SVS Wireless Sub Kit should work with any sub that has an RCA input (so almost all subs).

After speaking to both HSU and SVS, I noticed a difference in shipping/returns/etc.
For SVS, there is free shipping both to your house and also back to them if you don't like the unit. And you have 45 days to return it.
For HSU, the shipping cost is $115 to me and then a higher amount (TBD) if I want to return it and I have 30 days to return it.
The HSU prices for subwoofers seem to be lower than SVS but I the policy for shipping (especially for returns) makes me nervous of getting HSU. What do you all think?

I think you would be happy with either sub. The Hsu has more performance for the dollar, but the SVS has a more generous return policy and a more sophisticated amplifier that has an app control. I would say that the app control is more beneficial to advanced users who can take advantage of the parametric equalizer, but not really a big deal otherwise.

I would say if you like rocking your music loud, aim for the VTF-3 or PB-3000. The PB-2000 midbass very good, but midbass on the VTF-3 and PB-3000 is bombastic. 118dB bass is pretty nuts.

 

[mvp]

Why I mentioned about value being sometimes different among the brands....personally I'd be very unlikely to return a sub I'd chosen so that part of their offer wouldn't mean much to me; they also have a nice upgrade program with credit for your old sub and they can help with logistics so that might be also of interest to you (already done my working my way up thru various subs where I'd be unlikely to take advantage of this service as well). Reading the whole SVS "bill of rights" might yield other tidbits I'm not thinking of. SVS is largely thought of as having the best customer service package among the internet direct sub/speaker folk, but of course in the long run you will pay for it to an extent (ain't no such thing as free shipping). I think the Hsu beats out the SVS models you posted on a strict $ basis....but I'm not shopping either.

When I talked to Kevin from HSU yesterday he said they didn't have an upgrade program. Are you sure that is HSU? And you are right that I am probably not going to return the sub. It is just nice to know there is free return shipping if I decided that. I really want to know the return shipping cost though before I agree to buying an HSU product. Kevin said it would be more than the $115 shipping I would pay the the purchase.

 

[-Jim-]

HSU doesn't have an upgrade program, SVS does, although I'm betting less than a few percent of buyers ever use it. You could add a second Sub is probably more likely if you are a Bassaholic.

See what UPS, or FedEx, want$ to ship the Sub you choose to buy back to California. Then add a portion (10% chance of return => Less?) to get to an all in cost for it. (I suspect SVS adds their freight cost into the price 100% for delivery, and only a small percentage to cover any possible return.) Again, you are looking at quality equipment here. Not a very high chance of return from either OEM.

 

[lovinthehd]

When I talked to Kevin from HSU yesterday he said they didn't have an upgrade program. Are you sure that is HSU? And you are right that I am probably not going to return the sub. It is just nice to know there is free return shipping if I decided that. I really want to know the return shipping cost though before I agree to buying an HSU product. Kevin said it would be more than the $115 shipping I would pay the the purchase.

No, I said SVS had the customer service package with upgrade and prices include shipping (both ways if necessary)....Hsu prices don't even include the shipping initially, and you're on your own on upgrades/shipping if you want to exchange for another model (altho if you ask nice, who knows). Return shipping to Hsu is likely going to be pricey (I used to be in the logistics biz and had the ability to return at freight costs on company account, which was a far better deal than an individual would likely get on their own). I just would prefer, for myself, the Hsu VTF-3 over the PB2000/3000 at the price.....

 

[mvp]

It means that in deep bass, i.e., 20-25Hz, the VTF-3 is on par with the PB-2000 in either mode, although it does do a bit more really deep bass, 16Hz. You can give up some deep bass output for more midbass output by opening both ports (and using the appropriate setting on the amp panel). That will make it a bit punchier, and it keeps up with the PB-3000 in midbass with both ports open. It can not quite match the PB-3000 in deep bass, 20-25Hz, but it does match it in super deep bass, 16Hz. Basically, the VTF-3 has the midbass output of the PB-3000 with the deep bass output of the PB-2000, and it can dip a tad deeper than both.

Does that assessment assume that the PB2000 and the PB300 have both ports open?

 

[shadyJ]

Does that assessment assume that the PB2000 and the PB300 have both ports open?

Yes. Always run these subs with ports open. There is no point in getting a large ported sub and then sealing the ports. You might as well have gone with the sealed variant at that point which saves money and floorspace.

 

[mvp]

Has anyone connected an HSU VTF-3 Mk5 HP to a receiver using a SVS SoundPath Tri-Band Wireless Audio Adapter? Does it work well? I already checked and my Denon AVR 1912 can connect a subwoofer to the receiver wirelessly (has RCA connection).