Comparison between the Hsu VTF-3 HO and the SVS PB12-Ultra

[initech]

As it turns out, the Carpet Grabber is included in the Turbo-box. It is pre-cut, and works perfectly. Something tells me the manual for the Turbo tells you this, too. Of course, being an experienced subwoofer guy, I looked at the Turbo and thought "How could there POSSIBLY be a need for a manual for THIS" ??

Now, where DID I put that Turbo manual ?

lol

A self proclaimed wise man once said "real men don't read directions"

 

[craigsub]

My wife, daughter and younger son are going to a "sock hop" at the kid's day school tonight, so my older son and I are under orders to eat pizza and watch a "ridiculous, disgusting, man movie" tonight.

Shaun of the Dead has some amazing bass - and it is hilarious. We may have to go for it ... TrueRTA running, of course ...

 

[ssabripo]

My wife, daughter and younger son are going to a "sock hop" at the kid's day school tonight, so my older son and I are under orders to eat pizza and watch a "ridiculous, disgusting, man movie" tonight.

Shaun of the Dead has some amazing bass - and it is hilarious. We may have to go for it ... TrueRTA running, of course ...

you call Shaun of the Dead a "man movie"????

C'mon Craig....how about some good ol Jarhead, or Chronicles of Riddick, or a REAL man movie?!

 

[kingtut]

5 stars thread

yesterday, this thread had 4 stars. Today, it's rated 5 stars. Great job, Craig! Thanks for performing the test and providing your opinion.

 

[oldgoalie33]

Craig,
How's the x-sub doing? I know it's not in the same league as the 'big dogs', but for the price I sure like mine. Great job as always.

 

[craigsub]

you call Shaun of the Dead a "man movie"????

C'mon Craig....how about some good ol Jarhead, or Chronicles of Riddick, or a REAL man movie?!

Actually, I called it a ridiculous, disgusting Man Movie ... and it is.

My son is digging through the movies now ...

KingTut - this thread is a lot of fun, having the crew here which we do is what is making it so...

OldGoalie - The X-sub is doing just fine. I am going to try to get a pic with one of each subwoofer in it over the weekend ...

 

[Sheep]

While your getting that pic craig, can we see a pic of where the subwoofers are setup in relation to your seating area? Your room is quite odd looking, so it would really help put it into perspective so other can gauge the performance of these subs in there room.

Thanks,
SheepStar

 

[IBKen]

Looks like Home Theater Hifi has a review of the VTF-3 HO up on their site:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/hsu-vtf-3-ho-subwoofer-3-2006-part-1.html

 

[craigsub]

Pretty solid review - thanks for the link !

We have decided on Batman Begins ... more graphs later ...

 

[Mr. Lamb Fries]

Pretty solid review - thanks for the link !

We have decided on Batman Begins ... more graphs later ...

Great choice...I like the sceen when he first takes out the bat mobile


Great thread too. i have been following and awaiting the results!!! as youll see in my sig, I am in need of a sub! these two are contenders!!

 

[---k---]

I'm anti-everything!

I thought that review was pretty weak.
Not a slam on the HSU, just dissapointed in the review. The scale on the FR graphs at the end was such that it made inroom response look perfect, while it was anything but. I wish HSU would have shipped it to Ed if they were going to have Secrets review it.

 

[steve nn]

I wish HSU would have shipped it to Ed if they were going to have Secrets review it.

Yeah me to..I'm wondering if those were amp limited peak SPL THD numbers in the review? I was thinking higher for some reason.

 

[Sheep]

Looks like Home Theater Hifi has a review of the VTF-3 HO up on their site:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/hsu-vtf-3-ho-subwoofer-3-2006-part-1.html

I have never really liked any of their reviews. My DPS-12 review has more detail then half of their reviews combined. IMO thats pathetic.

SheepStar

 

[Mark Seaton]

I thought the review was pretty good on the subjective side with the exception of testing with a crossover of 50Hz. I would think that they would have given some time to an 80Hz crossover use as that is what a large percentage of the use will be.

I'm honestly confused why the posted measurements were included. I don't understand the frame of reference they offer. I seem to recall some of the past subs being measured at 18" some at 15", and this one at only 12"? Alternately at distance to the port and driver. It does let us look at what's coming from the driver and less so from the room, but it doesn't tell us much in a perspective of output capability or really distortion.

stevenn,

As I read it, those were distortion measurements at 100dB into the microphone. It does give us a peek at the distortion spectrum of the sub, but we don't how this level (100dB @ 12") compares to the upper limits of the sub. I think it might be time to either take the party outside, or follow Nousaine's method of using the same relative in-room location every time, at sufficient distance. I have zero question of John Johnson's capability to perform such measurements, only that we are seeing a moving target so far as a point of reference for his reviews.

Best Regards,

 

[Tdekany]

I wish HSU would have shipped it to Ed if they were going to have Secrets review it.

k- I seriously doubt that ed would get a sub from hsu.

you should alsways hear the sub yourself & then decide. m4c

 

[craigsub]

Batman Begins was as much fun now as it was the first time. And once again, both subs did a great job. The PB12-Ultra was a bit more authoritative than was the VTF-3HO. In the 16 Hz setting, it really does a great job on those occasional DEEP bass scenes.

Batman begins has nothing about it which is subtle - it hits hard in every bass scene - no finesse here !

Check out this response on the "Batman scares the Scarecrow" towards the end - THIS was the best bass scene in the movie, IMO. I will be doing a back to back on this scene with the Hsu tomorrow, and will also take a graph. Subjectively, the Ultra wins on Batman Begins - tomorrow we will see if it does objectively.

 

[spyboy]

Craig

I know it is still early in the game, however, for those who pre-ordered the '3HO at the ~$950 delivered price, how would you compare, right now, the 'HO to the $1,300 Ultra?

Would you say there is 37% more value in the Ultra?

 

[craigsub]

Artie - I really don't know the answer to that, quite yet. I can tell you the ultimate "value" question will be in terms of the standard Hsu pricing - rather than the pre-order pricing.

I can also say that even though the Turbo does add extension, I find the VTF-3HO to sound the best in the standard 22 Hz, two port position.

There will be more FR measurements, as well as MAx output measurements, to explain why.

Back to the "value" aspect - we also have the PB12-Plus/2 to consider.

 

[jakeman]

Looks like Home Theater Hifi has a review of the VTF-3 HO up on their site:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/hsu-vtf-3-ho-subwoofer-3-2006-part-1.html

Thanks for bringing that review to my attention. I've always liked Johnston's reviews because they are clearly written and well supported with facts and analysis. His impressions of Gettysburg, Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, Fanfare for the Common Man and Jarhead were particularly insightful. Some of those music passages are very demanding and I appreciate Johnston's description of powerful output and low distortion throughout. I'm looking forward to Jarhead.

I wish he would have discussed in more detail Hsu's design objectives and use of Adire's new XBL driver technology . Much of the clean sound being heard must come from the new motor topology in the driver. In the Adire note, "in terms of dynamic distortion performance, an XBL enabled motor typically out-performs drivers with greater excursion. Yet, as shown above, XBL typically adds excursion to a given set of parts thus leading to even lower distorion for motors based on those parts." Rather than examing more closely how much dynamic and IM distortion is lowered we get the tired analysis of THD, making the benefits of XBL topology appear like an afterthought.

Regardless of distance and crossover I thought the FR graphs had good relative merit. I liked to see the analysis of output and THD+n using different sine waves with and without the turbo. The last graph kind of summed it up well for me. Terrific looking FR with the turbo with much less distortion of all types by the read of it.

 

[craigsub]

Quasi-Ground Plane measurements ....

After looking at the ten day weather forecast, and seeing it will be cold and either raining or snowing until April 3, I decided to try some quasi ground plane measurements at the edge of our garage. It is a 44 x 38 foot garage, and I put the subwoofers at the "lip" just underneath the side with the doors.

The microphone was placed outside the garage - so we got a minimum of SPL from the garage itself. The only problem is a rather high noise floor from the garage heater.

Realistically, this will be very close to the output SPL's in a normal GP session - though I am sure both subs suffered a bit from the 33 degree temperature the microphone was immersed in ...

The SVS has three raw graphs here - all three in 16 Hz tuning ...

SVS @ 16 Hz :

SVS @ 20 Hz :

SVS @ 25 Hz :

When Ed tested the PB12-Plus, he managed the following SPL levels in the 16 Hz tuning : 95 dB @ 16 Hz, 100.9 dB @ 20 Hz, and 101.9 dB @ 25 Hz. Keep in mind, it was MUCH warmer weather when Ed did his test. I would expect the Ultra to deliver somewhat higher SPL in a warmer environment - plus the specs on the Goldline microphone suggest it would show about a 1 dB higher output level at, say, a 75 degree setting.

Ok ... now for the VTF-3HO max outputs ...

With Turbo, 16 Hz ...

With Turbo, 20 Hz ...

With Turbo, 25 Hz ...

Without Turbo, 20 Hz ...

Without Turbo, 25 Hz ...

Without Turbo, 31 Hz ...

And guys - I gotta tell you, lugging each of these subwoofers from our basement theater, all the way through the house, over to the big garage was no picnic. The PB12-Ultra is just plain a monster.