Comparison between the Hsu VTF-3 HO and the SVS PB12-Ultra

[steve nn]

It's worth a try Craig. I'm still interested in what you come up with though as long as it's measurable and not forgetting your listening impressions. You mentioned you and your son viewing a movie...I would highly suggest Titan AE. I was sitting back wondering what to view and nothing was appealing to me (as is usually the case) but then I decided on Titan AE. Now I have only viewed that disk once, but I think it was you in another Thread that recommended it, so I gave it a shot. Lets just say it's very good subject material if your looking for another disk?

I just finished Jarhead and now it's off to "Walk The Line" even though my wife dragged me to the theater to see it. I got the house to myself this weekend so watch my back if my wording gets slurred.

 

[craigsub]

Steve ... Personally, I find you to be just as accurate after you have been imbibing as before ...

Yes ... Titan AE and Open Range have been staples of mine for a long time.

Walk The Line may surprise you with the deep bass.

 

[ssabripo]

Sherv - It would probably take two of each to keep up with the twins you are building. Of course, You HAVE been working on that project quite a while. I did the math, estimating what a Ga. Tech engineering grad makes, and your DIY project's time, and calculated that, had you spent all this time at work, you could have purchased one of these ...

But ... you DO get to brag about it ...

Seriously - It does look like a GREAT subwoofer.

IF only Motorola would pay as such....

You are right though, this project has been going on since the stone age ...unfortunately, the AV15 was not shipped till early march, so 2 of those months were just sitting and waiting for "supplies"...LOL

man, I'm liking you more and more....your choices are cars are exactly like mine....

ps- Get some pics of the HO and the pimp...Uhm, I mean, Ultra...

 

[craigsub]

IF only Motorola would pay as such....

You are right though, this project has been going on since the stone age ...unfortunately, the AV15 was not shipped till early march, so 2 of those months were just sitting and waiting for "supplies"...LOL

man, I'm liking you more and more....your choices are cars are exactly like mine....

ps- Get some pics of the HO and the pimp...Uhm, I mean, Ultra...

Sherv ... The Vette is still my favorite - but that 911 is SWEET.

Looking forward to the completion of your own personal Panama Canal ...

 

[ssabripo]

.....

Nice job Sherv! Now tell me..is it your plan to run both your rigs together or is that up in the air until you flay out your FR response?

I'm gonna play around with them a little, and try to see what gives me the flattest, yet visceral, performance I can get....it may be collocated, or on opposite sides, etc.

who knows...the wifey already *****es about the single Ultra in 16hz, I can only imagine the speed of the divorce papers when I run these babies in parallel

we shall see......My real goal is to use this AV15 (tuned to 18z) and the Ultra (tuned to 16hz) to handle to low end stuff (sub 35hz), and maybe a pair of tumults (or just one....still debating) in sealed format to handle the musical mid-bass stuff (35hz+).

of course, pending I'm still alive once the wife gets a hold of me....

 

[ssabripo]

Sherv ... The Vette is still my favorite - but that 911 is SWEET.

Looking forward to the completion of your own personal Panama Canal ...

you have a room in Erie I can rent?....I may need it shortly! Oh, and a job would be nice too, so I can pay for the mentioned rent...

 

[craigsub]

you have a room in Erie I can rent?....I may need it shortly! Oh, and a job would be nice too, so I can pay for the mentioned rent...

We have an unfinished room above our 5 car garage ... Since you are into DIY ... I imagine you can fix it up ... lol

Speaking of DIY ... There is a new DIY strip bar in Canada ... no girls.

 

[ssabripo]

We have an unfinished room above our 5 car garage ... Since you are into DIY ... I imagine you can fix it up ... lol

Speaking of DIY ... There is a new DIY strip bar in Canada ... no girls.

awesome!

 

[mdrew]

Damn Craig….. A five car garage? I could only wish for one. I have to borrow a 40 X 60 shop for my four wheeled toys. I’m retro fitting a C3 suspension under a 62 stingray now. Building the frame out of 14 gauge stainless. It’ll get a LS7 crate engine when it’s all done. Been doing that for about 6 years now.

Hey, did you watch Flight plan yet? I watched it the other day and was pretty surprised by all the LFE’s on that disk. Some sounded pretty low. The 600 had the windows rattling a few times.

 

[steve nn]

Steve ... Personally, I find you to be just as accurate after you have been imbibing as before ...

Well I thank you for your confidence Craig even though it's been a 1 yr 1/2! I just went through "Walk The Line" in different Q's and I found imo that .55 Q sounds the best with the said material. I just went through this disk from .55 to .7 Q and what it is equating to is low bottom end extension is of no real value to this disk imo. It does have low bass as far as music is concerned, but not what we would expect out of Titan AE or something like that. There was the scene right prior to Folsom Prison that had some extremely low bass though. (Jail house closing door)......I admit I'm opinionated though.

of course, pending I'm still alive once the wife gets a hold of me....
Today 08:50 PM

I'll be looking forward to what you come up with Sherv?

 

[craigsub]

Well I thank you for your confidence Craig even though it's been a 1 yr 1/2! I just went through "Walk The Line" in different Q's and I found imo that .55 Q sounds the best with the said material. I just went through this disk from .55 to .7 Q and what it is equating to is low bottom end extension is of no real value to this disk imo. It does have low bass as far as music is concerned, but not what we would expect out of Titan AE or something like that. There was the scene right prior to Folsom Prison that had some extremely low bass though. (Jail house closing door)......I admit I'm opinionated though.

I'll be looking forward to what you come up with Sherv?

Steve - Repeat after me: Bass does not have to be under 20 Hz in order to enhance the music or movie performance ...

We loved the movie, by the way ...

 

[DOJ]

We have an unfinished room above our 5 car garage ... Since you are into DIY ... I imagine you can fix it up ... lol

Speaking of DIY ... There is a new DIY strip bar in Canada ... no girls.

That room sounds about right for me............just don't leave the cars running

 

[Active Speaker]

Craig,

Just out of curiosity, how do these two subs compare with the old TN1220? From the readings that you have posted, they don't seem to be topping the old Keele measurements. I'm sure I'm not comparing apples to apples, however. Also, do you think that tubular subs have more potential than boxes (with Dr. Hsu implementing them, of course)?

Active Speaker

 

[craigsub]

Craig,

Just out of curiosity, how do these two subs compare with the old TN1220? From the readings that you have posted, they don't seem to be topping the old Keele measurements. I'm sure I'm not comparing apples to apples, however. Also, do you think that tubular subs have more potential than boxes (with Dr. Hsu implementing them, of course)?

Active Speaker

Active - I really cannot give a good answer to that question. My experience with the 1220 was brief, and with a Mackie pro-amp. It was an excellent sub, but without a direct A/B, or same setting measurements, anything I say would be speculation.

The VTF-3 HO has not been a dissapointment in any way - and it is definitely one of the finest subs in the $800 to $1100 price class.

 

[Active Speaker]

Well,

The particular Keele measurement of the TN1220 (of which I am sure you are very familiar) is excerpted here:

"With room gain, the maximum peak acoustic output starts with a very high 101 dB at a very low 12.5 Hz, passes through 110 dB at 16 Hz, then rises rapidly to a local peak of 114 dB at 20 Hz. After a slight dip to 113 dB at 25 Hz, the output rises to 117.5 dB at 50 Hz, heading up (after another slight dip) to 120 dB at 95 Hz before falling slightly to 118 dB at 200 Hz."

I believe you had addressed this awhile back on your Home Theater Spot shootout, but I just couldn't remember.

I sure wish/hope Dr. Hsu lives up to his promise and revives the TN series; the WAF at my house is much better ironically with this sub!

Active

BTW, I'm glad to see you're still at it; great shootout!

 

[craigsub]

Active - Just for kicks, I may try to re-enact Keele's test. I also plan on delving into what I consider to be an excellent review of the VTF-3HO by John E. Johnson in "Secrets" ... look for that tomorrow afternoon. It is rather disturbing, the attacks on Mr. Johnson's test, and once we look at everything he did, perhaps more will understand why his review was actually first rate.

Look for that by no later than Monday.

 

[JonnyOzero3]

Ironically enough, I think a pair of updated TN-1220HO's would work much better in my room as well (laying on their sides). If Hsu came out with these (which I hope they do), I would probably consider selling the -3HO i have coming and going tubular. This depends on many different factors that are only speculation right now, but we'll see.

 

[RMK!]

Interesting and fun reading

Craig,
Thanks for taking the time to post all this interesting info on these great products and kudos to the Audioholics crowd for keeping it civil.
I know this is about the HO, but you had mentioned throwing the DD-18 and Axiom into the mix. It would be great to see the data and hear your relative impressions of all the sub's currently residing at Chase Manor

 

[spyboy]

I'm glad Active raised the Keele review. As the 101db at 12.5HZ is something I will never forget.

Amplifier power should not come into play here as the 1220could only handle about 150 watts at 12.5HZ, and the '3HO has 500 watts.

Keele's measurements were indoors.

We know from the published tests that the HO can do 12 HZ, question is, can it do 101 db (even at the 1220's 22% distortion)?

 

[steve nn]

Steve - Repeat after me: Bass does not have to be under 20 Hz in order to enhance the music or movie performance ...

I'll do just that and will totally believe it as I do...no doubt about it!.. bass comes in all different shapes and sounds to be sure.