Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If they are going to do that, they may as well provide both preamp mode and power amp mode, for the flagship class AVRs only. There isn't much point to have a power amp mode for the models that have weak power amp sections.

And that would mean having MCH 11CH-Analog Inputs, making the AVR more complex, which is not Yamaha’s motto.

It’s fun playing the wish-list and prediction game.

 

[dlaloum]

And that would mean having MCH 11CH-Analog Inputs, making the AVR more complex, which is not Yamaha’s motto.

It’s fun playing the wish-list and prediction game.

Not quite - as a power amp, the input would be pretty simple - whereas a preamp multi channel input requires ADC's, and other ancillary circuits, a Power amp input, could just involve very basic analogue inputs fixed to a specific amp channel...

 

[dlaloum]

If they are going to do that, they may as well provide both preamp mode and power amp mode, for the flagship class AVRs only. There isn't much point to have a power amp mode for the models that have weak power amp sections.

It probably would never happen for devices other than premium models - the pennies involved in the input connectors alone would be hard to justify!

But in terms of power amp justification - my old Integra DRX3.4 - a mass market model with weak power amp section, had more than ample power to handle my Surrounds and Heights.... Power amp capability would have made a jump to AVP rather than AVR much more interesting... but as it stands at the moment, moving to an AVP based setup would require the purchase of additional channels of power amps.

It would be nice to see such a function on models like the new generation (possible future, pinch of salt warning...) RZ71...

 

[PENG]

Not quite - as a power amp, the input would be pretty simple - whereas a preamp multi channel input requires ADC's, and other ancillary circuits, a Power amp input, could just involve very basic analogue inputs fixed to a specific amp channel...

Which specific channel? If you are going to use an AVR as power amp, without caveat, then it seems that ADTG is correct.

 

[dlaloum]

Which specific channel? If you are going to use an AVR as power amp, without caveat, then it seems that ADTG is correct.

You only need fairly simple circuitry to accept a standard line input in the processing chain between the Preamp board and the power amp board(s) ... in many cases they already run at close to standard line level... that (in theory) should not be an overly onerous or expensive additional feature!

 

[PENG]

You only need fairly simple circuitry to accept a standard line input in the processing chain between the Preamp board and the power amp board(s) ... in many cases they already run at close to standard line level... that (in theory) should not be an overly onerous or expensive additional feature!

Agreed, just that in my opinion there isn't much point doing it for the entry to some midrange AVRs that have weak power amp sections such as Marantz's low profile series and Denon's AVRs below the X3800H models. That would be fine for those who don't care about SINAD less than 80 dB. Keep in mind for SINAD 80 dB in the 1 kHz test, within the full audio band you can expect below SINAD 70, or even less (60 dB), that's still acceptable to a ton of users who really don't care about measurements, but for those who care, and know enough to want to use their lower end AV receivers as power amps, they likely want something better. All just our opinions though, obviously highly subjective in nature.

Pre out is different, it is easy for the likes of D+M, Yamaha, Onkyo to standardize as we know for a fact that D+M has been standardizing their preamp/dac section, not 100% but at least keeping the DAC, OPA, volume IC, switches, the same for their whole midrange to flagship models.

So, it is worth equipping them with pre out/preamp mode so users have the option to take advantage of this section by just adding external power amps at can be very affordable now with many class D amps available. Manufacturers may never go for it, because their marketing/sales teams would likely say no, for obvious reasons.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You only need fairly simple circuitry to accept a standard line input in the processing chain between the Preamp board and the power amp board(s) ... in many cases they already run at close to standard line level... that (in theory) should not be an overly onerous or expensive additional feature!

I think it’s nice to have Preamp and Amp mode.

But there is ZERO chance that Yamaha will add 11 more Analog Inputs on their AVR.

Yamaha is trying to get rid of as many inputs and connectors as possible, not add 11 more.

 

[little wing]

Yamaha's not adding much of anything right now. They need to get off thier rusty dusty and get with it. My RX-A3060 is still going strong, but when it's time, I might have to spring for a Marantz AV30. It's less expensive then the AV10 or 20 and doesn't have a crazy amout of channels, which I don''t need.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yamaha's not adding much of anything right now. They need to get off thier rusty dusty and get with it. My RX-A3060 is still going strong, but when it's time, I might have to spring for a Marantz AV30. It's less expensive then the AV10 or 20 and doesn't have a crazy amout of channels, which I don''t need.

You already using external amps w/ A3060?

 

[little wing]

You already using external amps w/ A3060?

No I'm not. I know an amp would be an additional expense, I'm just wondering if the AV30 and something like a 5 channel ATI amp would be worth it, for better sound quality.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

No I'm not. I know an amp would be an additional expense, I'm just wondering if the AV30 and something like a 5 channel ATI amp would be worth it, for better sound quality.

Marantz AV30 + ATI AT1825 class-AB 200x5 amp would be awesome.



But probably more pride of ownership.

ATI amps are awesome, but unless you actually need more power than the Yamaha flagship AVR, probably won't hear any difference - unless you're also in the "all amps have a sound signature of their own" camp.

For SQ, the AV30 would have access to Audyssey and/or Dirac Live/ART. I love my Yamaha manual PEQ since I can get my in-room FR to +/-1.5dB. But for many people automatic Room Correction is better or easier for them than manual PEQ.

 

[dlaloum]

Marantz AV30 + ATI AT1825 class-AB 200x5 amp would be awesome.



But probably more pride of ownership.

ATI amps are awesome, but unless you actually need more power than the Yamaha flagship AVR, probably won't hear any difference - unless you're also in the "all amps have a sound signature of their own" camp.

For SQ, the AV30 would have access to Audyssey and/or Dirac Live/ART. I love my Yamaha manual PEQ since I can get my in-room FR to +/-1.5dB. But for many people automatic Room Correction is better or easier for them than manual PEQ.

I recently stepped down from external power amps (Crown XLS2500, 440W@8ohm, 1200W@2ohm) to my new Denon X4800H (125W@8ohm) - and I am happy to say the system sounds as it should.

My previous Integra DRX3.4 did not sound right with my Gallo speakers, which do dip down to 1.6ohm and are a difficult speaker to drive... but the Denon seems OK with them and 125W is more than ample in my space (and with my family) - actual power use during listening is circa 1W continuous and has never exceeeded 16W peak...

If you have an AVR with amps that "suit" your speakers, then there is nothing (objective... !) to gain from external amplification.

At my preferred listening level of 72db to 75db, I get complaints in the evening that it is too loud.... (sigh)

 

[PENG]

Yamaha's not adding much of anything right now. They need to get off thier rusty dusty and get with it. My RX-A3060 is still going strong, but when it's time, I might have to spring for a Marantz AV30. It's less expensive then the AV10 or 20 and doesn't have a crazy amout of channels, which I don''t need.

I know it is hard to believe, but I am quite sure that the even less expensive way to do to for sound quality is to just grab a Denon AVR-X3800H, or AVR-X4800H when they are on sale. People seem really impressed with DLBC, and now ART, see @dlaloum 's posts about his experience with ART, not sure if he posted his impression here but definitely on ASR. Denon, Marantz don't sound better than Yamaha's but with ART, I don't doubt most people will actually hear better sound quality overall, except for those who have very little bad influence of their room acoustic and speaker placement.

 

[little wing]

I know it is hard to believe, but I am quite sure that the even less expensive way to do to for sound quality is to just grab a Denon AVR-X3800H, or AVR-X4800H when they are on sale. People seem really impressed with DLBC, and now ART, see @dlaloum 's posts about his experience with ART, not sure if he posted his impression here but definitely on ASR. Denon, Marantz don't sound better than Yamaha's but with ART, I don't doubt most people will actually hear better sound quality overall, except for those who have very little bad influence of their room acoustic and speaker placement.

Good to get all this expertise from you guys. I guess it's more of an itch to try some new gear. My Yamaha AVR has served well over the years. I sit about 10 to 11 feet from the speakers, which are Ascend Acustics towers. Thier not particulary difficult to drive, 6 or 8 ohms, I believe. Loud listening for me is 75db, with peaks into the low 80's. These are definitly not high output speakers though. Back when I purchased the 3060, reviewers said to really get the best out of it, you need an external amp, so of course that got me thinking.