RSL Digs Deep to 16Hz with new Speedwoofer 12S for $800!

[afterlife2]

Found the perfect combo.....12S for the lowest bass and stacked 10S's for 40hz and above using the 12S highpass.....my god, this just destroys.


View attachment 61305

Nice setup! What speakers and center are you using? Are those tweets on top?

 

[isolar8001]

Nice setup! What speakers and center are you using? Are those tweets on top?

Thanks....the Center is a Q Acoustics Concept. I have an RSL CG25 for a center also underneath my AVR, I just like the Q better for center duty.
Mains are RSL CG25's (sometimes CG5's) with Aperion MKII Planar Super Tweeters on top....I like a little more high end "air"
Surrounds are my Q Acoustic 3030i's.
I have a Speedwoofer 10s MK2 that I'm not using....bass is just ridiculous in my small room with a 12S and two 10S MK1's going together....
All my speakers are white, except for the new Speedwoofer 12S...but some roll on white epoxy paint will cure that!
Sometimes I play with Atmos, usually deciding its not worth the trouble....maybe in a bigger room.

 

[Jottle]

Im probably going to make my 12S White....Joe from RSL wants to see some pics when I do, as they have gotten a lot of requests for white and they are considering runs of them in that color.

I don't get why they weren't even considering that in the first place? Isn't the 10S available in white all the time?

 

[isolar8001]

I don't get why they weren't even considering that in the first place? Isn't the 10S available in white all the time?

Yes, 10S is available in white always.
They did discontinue the gloss white on the CG Line almost two years ago, and the new cheaper CG3M line is black vinyl only.

 

[gene]

The RSL Speedwoofer 12S builds on the venerable 10S MK2 but with a larger 12” driver and enclosure with 16Hz extension for only $800. We reviewed the 12S and put it through music and movie torture testing and CEA-2010 and found it to be a significant upgrade from the Speedwoofer 10S. It’s not just quantitatively better, it’s qualitatively better. Read our review to find out why.

Read: RSL Speedwoofer 12S Subwoofer Review

 

[isolar8001]

Excellent work !!
Thank You, Mr Larson and team.

 

[ryanosaur]

Woohoo!
Another great write up, @shadyJ . Thank you. Always nice to see a really good product that won’t break the bank, too.

 

[Danzilla31]

Great writeup Shady!!!!

 

[corey]

A truly interesting sub, and one I can aspire to. It's nice to read about, and get solid info on, something like this, rather than "This costs more than you net in a year...."

 

[TheAVInsider]

Thank you for the excellent review. Sounds like there's real performance to be found here for a budget minded person looking to add decent ULF to their setup. 4 of these setup right with a good calibration in a smallish space should be able to produce some pretty incredible experiences. That's without even needing to hire an electrician!

 

[Russ56]

Excellent review as usual James. As a side benefit I've been flexing the drywall in my room listening to the "American Symphonic Organ" the past hour.

Just a few questions you may or may not know the answer to:

1. Any port chuffing?
2. Could you tell the approximate port tuning center frequency?
3. Were you able to determine if the relative lack of midbass output was due to the amplifier running out of headroom or driver being limited by the DSP?
4. Trying to think of a hack to mitigate those razor blades...I mean cabinet edges. One trip and you risk being impaled by one of those corners. Maybe some flexible corner trim products?

 

[isolar8001]

To get more midbass output, just run in Music Mode. These modes actually do work.
I believe James did all his testing in Reference Mode.
I run my 12S at 40hz and down with two stacked 10sMK1's for 40hz and up via the built in high pass. That is a killer combo !!
I've never heard port chuffing from any Speedwoofer....the DSP should prevent being driven to that point.

REFERENCE:	Minimal EQ processing, “natural” response for ideal transient performance
MOVIE:	Enhanced output between 25-35Hz to augment low frequency content at low levels
MUSIC:	Shelved response for extension, but with good upper bass impact
BOUNDARY:	“Neighbor friendly”…Reduced lower frequencies to limit rumble through walls

 

[shadyJ]

Excellent review as usual James. As a side benefit I've been flexing the drywall in my room listening to the "American Symphonic Organ" the past hour.

Just a few questions you may or may not know the answer to:

1. Any port chuffing?
2. Could you tell the approximate port tuning center frequency?
3. Were you able to determine if the relative lack of midbass output was due to the amplifier running out of headroom or driver being limited by the DSP?
4. Trying to think of a hack to mitigate those razor blades...I mean cabinet edges. One trip and you risk being impaled by one of those corners. Maybe some flexible corner trim products?

All ported subs will chuff if you push them hard enough. I don't recall this one being particularly bad in that respect.

Regarding port tuning, I would guess somewhere around 20Hz or just under.

The restricted mid-bass output would be because of the amplifier. This driver might be capable of a few more dB at 50Hz and above, but it would need a much more powerful amp for that, and that would considerably hike the cost of the unit up.

As for the hard edges, just leaving the grille on does help in that regard since it has rounded edges.

To get more midbass output, just run in Music Mode. These modes actually do work.
I believe James did all his testing in Reference Mode.

If Music mode permits any more output above 50Hz, it wouldn't be a whole lot. I would guess maybe 1dB or less. The headroom of the modes have more to do with deep bass than mid-bass.

 

[isolar8001]

If Music mode permits any more output above 50Hz, it wouldn't be a whole lot. I would guess maybe 1dB or less. The headroom of the modes have more to do with deep bass than mid-bass.

That is true...the level rise in midbass isn't dramatic.
From a design standpoint RSL opted for more "Throb" than "Bump".

 

[HTEnthusiast]

I was in the pilot test group and have been enjoying the 12S for some time now. I have a second 12S due to be delivered Friday. I had previously been in a 4 sub configuration with the 12S in the right front corner, 2 HSU-ULS15s on opposing side walls in the mid wall position and an old Def Tech sub in the left rear corner.

I have been experimenting a bit, currently trying a 3 sub setup with the 2 HSUs stacked in the left rear corner and the 12S in the same right front corner. The increase in overall force in that setup over the 4 subs spread out is really surprising. Now that I have experience that, it going to be tough to back off from it.

Once the second 12S comes in, I’m going to experiment with stacking the 2 12S subs in the front right in the current stacked configuration vs. going back to the previous 4 sub configuration, but replacing the Def Tech in the left rear corner with the second 12S.

I use a miniDSP 2x4 and REW to get everything working together. It takes a bit to move stuff around and recalibrate. Unfortunately, my Athem AVM70 8K had some channels give out and is under warranty repair. I’m using an older processor that gets me by, but results should eventually get only better.

 

[HTEnthusiast]

The second 12S came in perfect shape. RSL really knows what they are doing when it comes to boxing these for shipping. I‘m in stacked mode first, and it’s pretty awesome. The 2 ULS 15s stacked in the left rear corner and the 2 12Ss stacked in the front right corner is pretty much insane.

As expected, it doesn’t really change the graphs in REW. The same nulls and bumps are there, but just at a higher db. However, what I didn’t really expect is how much more brute force there is, even after the 2 stack subs are leveled as 1 sub to the same 80db. Everything hits harder, faster and there is an effortlessness to it that wasn’t there with the 4 sub spread. I’m going to have to let things marinate mentally and watch more movies. It’s so different that I need some adjustment time before jumping back to a 4 sub setup for comparison.

 

[shadyJ]

The second 12S came in perfect shape. RSL really knows what they are doing when it comes to boxing these for shipping. I‘m in stacked mode first, and it’s pretty awesome. The 2 ULS 15s stacked in the left rear corner and the 2 12Ss stacked in the front right corner is pretty much insane.

As expected, it doesn’t really change the graphs in REW. The same nulls and bumps are there, but just at a higher db. However, what I didn’t really expect is how much more brute force there is, even after the 2 stack subs are leveled as 1 sub to the same 80db. Everything hits harder, faster and there is an effortlessness to it that wasn’t there with the 4 sub spread. I’m going to have to let things marinate mentally and watch more movies. It’s so different that I need some adjustment time before jumping back to a 4 sub setup for comparison.

Very nice combination. The ULS 15's strength is mid-bass, and the RSL's strength is deep bass. With good calibration, that should be an incredibly potent system.

 

[isolar8001]

The second 12S came in perfect shape. RSL really knows what they are doing when it comes to boxing these for shipping. I‘m in stacked mode first, and it’s pretty awesome. The 2 ULS 15s stacked in the left rear corner and the 2 12Ss stacked in the front right corner is pretty much insane.

I do sort of the same thing here on a smaller scale...2 Speedwoofer 10s MK1's stacked at 40hz and up for mid/upper bass and the 12S at 40hz and down for the lower, all via the built in highpass on the 12S.
Damn killer combo in my small room.

 

[Laika2]

2 subs in different locations generally add 3dbs of output compared to a single sub, stacked adds about 6 dbs compared to a single sub, not as in a REW hump, 2 stacked acts as a single larger sub thus more bass and thump. 6dbs is a big jump, 3dbs is a noticeable difference. Downside is stacked gives a narrower sweet spot and dual locations cover more seats with more balanced bass. Listen alone or two people sitting close together stacking can really add to the experience. Need a wide seating area separate placement results in a wider bass sweet spot.

I subscribe to the law on placement on this issue. I place the remote on the table in the sweet spot, thus I land the spot, outliers be damned. (With my friends they wouldn't know the difference)

 

[HTEnthusiast]

2 subs in different locations generally add 3dbs of output compared to a single sub, stacked adds about 6 dbs compared to a single sub, not as in a REW hump, 2 stacked acts as a single larger sub thus more bass and thump. 6dbs is a big jump, 3dbs is a noticeable difference. Downside is stacked gives a narrower sweet spot and dual locations cover more seats with more balanced bass. Listen alone or two people sitting close together stacking can really add to the experience. Need a wide seating area separate placement results in a wider bass sweet spot.

I subscribe to the law on placement on this issue. I place the remote on the table in the sweet spot, thus I land the spot, outliers be damned. (With my friends they wouldn't know the difference)

I did try taking the ULS15s out and compared the 12S subs alone in the corners, before I stacked them. I then stacked them and did the same thing, with the ULS15s still out. I wanted to hear which is better. If I only had 2 12S, I greatly prefer the 2 12S in opposing corners vs. stacked. Having them in front and back corners evens out the bass, and in my room just sounds more natural.

I would not go into it from the start with the intent of stacking, meaning purposely getting 4 lesser subs and stack them in 2 corners. The only reason I’m even trying this stacking stuff is because I already had 2 decent subs with the ULS15s, but wanted more low end. You are then in the dilemma of augmenting what you have vs. starting from scratch.