RSL Digs Deep to 16Hz with new Speedwoofer 12S for $800!

[isolar8001]

Not "confusing" anything, most expensive subwoofers commonly accepted as good (including those with DSP) have low flat GD, GD is GD no matter how you spin it, it does effect bass audio quality otherwise no one would even bother to measure it.
All I'm saying RSL subs are not spectacular GD wise, no flat GD, and it's not low enough for the price. Many subs at half price have similar GD, or better. Where RSL shines is max SPL values, but that's achieved at 2x weight of similar priced 12" subs, so again hardly anything spectacular.

So...you are sending your 12S back ?

 

[paveldeg]

So...you are sending your 12S back ?

Unfortunately yes, but it all comes to personal taste and what you and like to can hear.

 

[TLS Guy]

Not "confusing" anything, most expensive subwoofers commonly accepted as good (including those with DSP) have low flat GD, GD is GD no matter how you spin it, it does effect bass audio quality otherwise no one would even bother to measure it.
Can you hear 40+ ms GD at 20 Hz? I can, I don't know if you can or not, and I don't care.
All I'm saying RSL subs are not spectacular GD wise, no flat GD, and it's not low enough for the price. Many subs at half price have similar GD, or better. Where RSL shines is max SPL values, but that's achieved at 2x weight of similar priced 12" subs, so again hardly anything spectacular.
But still RSL seems like a good option for home theater application, especially if you just like hauling 80+ lbs around.

Group delay less than a cycle is not audible, but high Q designs definitely sound boomy. That is why I use aperiodically damped transmission lines. You are confused because excessive time delay and high Q are often bedfellows.

 

[paveldeg]

Group delay less than a cycle is not audible, but high Q designs definitely sound boomy. That is why I use aperiodically damped transmission lines. You are confused because excessive time delay and high Q are often bedfellows.

Well, RSL 10S sub's GD is well above 1 cycle at lower bass frequencies, in fact it jumps up like a rocket. I assume 12s GD is as bad, so no I'm not "confused" - you are.
Sub's Q is an interesting one too, I just don't see it's measured/published that often.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, RSL 10S sub's GD is well above 1 cycle at lower bass frequencies, in fact it jumps up like a rocket. I assume 12s GD is as bad, so no I'm not "confused" - you are.

If it is over a cycle then yes, that is a problem. I do not look at speaker specs on a regular basis, as I design and build all my own speakers, and have been doing it long enough to avoid the major pitfalls.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well, RSL 10S sub's GD is well above 1 cycle at lower bass frequencies, in fact it jumps up like a rocket. I assume 12s GD is as bad, so no I'm not "confused" - you are.

I for one think you’re full of shitt.
But just for fun, what’s a good example of a subwoofer that you’d find acceptable? If you have the GD measurements that would be wonderful.

 

[isolar8001]

Well, RSL 10S sub's GD is well above 1 cycle at lower bass frequencies, in fact it jumps up like a rocket. I assume 12s GD is as bad, so no I'm not "confused" - you are.
Sub's Q is an interesting one too, I just don't see it's measured/published that often.

If you actually do have a Speedwoofer 12S that you are returning, I'm sure everyone at RSL doesn't quite know what to make of your reasoning.
I had to trick you into saying you had one.

I agree with William, though. Kinda full of it.
If you don't like it, you don't like it...no need to come here with some quasi technical reason why all RSL subs suck.
You are very alone in that assessment.

 

[paveldeg]

If you actually do have a Speedwoofer 12S that you are returning, I'm sure everyone at RSL doesn't quite know what to make of your reasoning.
I had to trick you into saying you had one.

I agree with William, though. Kinda full of it.
If you don't like it, you don't like it...no need to come here with some quasi technical reason why all RSL subs suck.
You are very alone in that assessment.

Why are you insulting me for no reason?? And why I cannot come here to express a private opinion??
I suggest you and your William fiend take some time off internet, and may be visit a shrink or something.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Why are you insulting me for no reason?? And why I cannot come here to express a private opinion??
I suggest you and your William fiend take some time off internet, and may be visit a shrink or something.

Nah. I know I’m unstable.
So, what’s a good quality low GD subwoofer you can share? @ryanasaur and I have asked nicely asked for examples of subs or articles that support your claim.
You can share whatever opinion you want. But at AH your word will frequently need to be backed up with some kind of facts. Not some “i don’t care if you believe me” nonsense.
The above graph is a great example. I mentioned earlier, citing that graph, that the only place where it crosses one cycle is around 22hz. What content are you playing back that you’d notice that? Please share. Or is this just some academic thing?
Btw. Nobody’s insulted you.

 

[ryanosaur]

Why are you insulting me for no reason?? And why I cannot come here to express a private opinion??
I suggest you and your William fiend take some time off internet, and may be visit a shrink or something.

Because you are being completely asinine about your complaint. The only people that would think this is a poor performing Subwoofer is the marketing team at REL!
It's one thing if you just decide its not for you and return it.
Period.
End of story.

However, you are here complaining repeatedly about a true non issue and acting like you can feel a pea placed under your mattress.

Cool, if this is what you believe, but if you couldn't catch on... the short version is that your complaint doesn't hold water with most of us. The measurements of GD for this Sub are not alarming in any way. Any ported Sub is going to have a rise in GD as Frequency drops. The real question is, then, by how much, and what is considered good enough for your needs.
If you are looking for infrasonic output, you have to deal with this, or you have to deal with the Power required, along with DSP programming, to make a Sealed Sub go that low with any authority.

Until you support your argument and show us why we, and a great many others, are apparently wrong, you will likely continue to feel insulted. As Will said, nobody has insulted you, either. We do expect you to buck up and prove why the ever so slight GD rise measured in this sub is so unacceptable.

You haven't done that. You are still here commenting about how bad this Sub is.

Cool?

 

[Danzilla31]

Well, RSL 10S sub's GD is well above 1 cycle at lower bass frequencies, in fact it jumps up like a rocket. I assume 12s GD is as bad, so no I'm not "confused" - you are.
Sub's Q is an interesting one too, I just don't see it's measured/published that often.

What are you talking about. It barely gets above 1 cycle at like 20 to 23hz. Almost across it's entire band it's well below 1 cycle. Anything lower then 1.5 is inaudible. I've owned RSL speakers and subs and their subs are some of the best bass I've heard. They are not boomy not slow or muddy they are tight accurate clean bass and they integrate fantastic with other speakers. They put out quality bass like subs way above their price class.

 

[Danzilla31]

Well, RSL 10S sub's GD is well above 1 cycle at lower bass frequencies, in fact it jumps up like a rocket. I assume 12s GD is as bad, so no I'm not "confused" - you are.
Sub's Q is an interesting one too, I just don't see it's measured/published that often.

 

[WhiteGhost]

I have 2 12s subs from RSL in a properly treated room these things hit hard and clean down low, just when you think it hit deep it hits another low subsonic note they really are amazing.

 

[paveldeg]

I have 2 12s subs from RSL in a properly treated room these things hit hard and clean down low, just when you think it hit deep it hits another low subsonic note they really are amazing.

Humans don't hear subsonic freqs, so either you are non-human or yet another RSL sales bot.

 

[paveldeg]

Period.
End of story.



you will likely continue to feel insulted.

I never feel insulted by sales bots idiots and degenerates, relax. End of story.

 

[isolar8001]

Damn PavelDeg, it took you two months to come up with that one.

 

[WhiteGhost]

I never said hear but you feel. Sales bot lol just stating facts. If any one knows sub sonics it me old timer.

 

[isolar8001]

I believe paveldeg just hates the initials RSL.

Years ago when he was a younger idiot, he fell madly in love with a Jiffy Lube employee named Randolph Susan Liverwurster.
Their love was intense but brief, when she/he left paveldeg for Jimmy Lorna Doone who was the night shift foreman/woman at the Cootchie Coo Creamsicle factory.

This relationship took an emotional and physical toll on paveldeg....he had the initials "RSL" burned deep into the skin of his expansive Cro-Magnon forehead and was stuck with them for eternity.

When asked by the only other human who can stand his presence the meaning of those three huge letters, he will just say.....nothing.
He is quite stupid and has zero imagination.

 

[WhiteGhost]

RSL = Love

 

[Danzilla31]

I believe paveldeg just hates the initials RSL.

Years ago when he was a younger idiot, he fell madly in love with a Jiffy Lube employee named Randolph Susan Liverwurster.
Their love was intense but brief, when she/he left paveldeg for Jimmy Lorna Doone who was the night shift foreman/woman at the Cootchie Coo Creamsicle factory.

This relationship took an emotional and physical toll on paveldeg....he had the initials "RSL" burned deep into the skin of his expansive Cro-Magnon forehead and was stuck with them for eternity.

When asked by the only other human who can stand his presence the meaning of those three huge letters, he will just say.....nothing.
He is quite stupid and has zero imagination.

I think he just hates life

Talk about being someone that drains all the fun out of the room