So just what is it that bothers our maga folk about transgender particularly?

[GO-NAD!]

In what way would it be an absolute mess? You could look up north at Canada.

While I fully support universal health care, I don't think Canada's system should be looked on as a model to be emulated. We have a lot of problems.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Yet all bigots are conservatives.

White liberals dumb down their speech when talking to blacks

Liberals think black people don't know how to get a state id or drivers license

There's also left-wing anti-semitism. It's one of the reasons Corbyn was dumped as the UK Labour party leader.

 

[Trell]

There's also left-wing anti-semitism. It's one of the reasons Corbyn was dumped as the UK Labour party leadership.

There’s antisemitism in the Swedish party Social Democrats (old name was Labor Party) as well.

 

[cpp]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that being transgender isn't a mental disorder per se, but the distress resulting from feeling trapped in a body that doesn't conform with your mental image can be enough to create a mental disorder. Do I have that right?

Maybe we should ask Bruce Caitlyn Marie Jenner (born William Bruce Jenner; October 28, 1949)

 

[Danzilla31]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that being transgender isn't a mental disorder per se, but the distress resulting from feeling trapped in a body that doesn't conform with your mental image can be enough to create a mental disorder. Do I have that right?

The correct term for transgender is gender dysphoria. It is the mental disorder and it is what creates that feeling of being trapped in the wrong body. This then creates the distress that leads or is linked to extreme anxiety agoraphobia panic attack disorder depression higher rates of suicide and other mental illness as well. It also can drive the individual into extreme risk taking behaviour to try and distract them from they're internal feelings.

Proper treatment is critical and can be difficult with varying degrees of success. Gender changing surgery and hormone therapy used to only be done after the individual reached adulthood if less invasive treatment was unsuccessful. The surgery is very invasive can create enormous health problems and shorten life span and so can hormone therapy also hormone therapy is very hard on the brain nuerologically.

The procedure is not always successful in alleviating the disorder. And due to the extreme complications to the brain and body that hormone therapy and surgery can create was only done when an individual reached a certain age.

 

[jinjuku]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that being transgender isn't a mental disorder per se, but the distress resulting from feeling trapped in a body that doesn't conform with your mental image can be enough to create a mental disorder. Do I have that right?

I think this is where it get's problematic. The DSM in 2012, on compassionate grounds, removed the diagnostic term of gender dysphoria as a mental disorder, simply to remove the 'stigma' of a mental health diagnosis.

Thus arose the 'Gender Affirming Care Model' that has created some controversy.

So the change isn't a medically technical change.

The reality is just like people have different fast and slow twitch muscle fibers, there are different make up of brain matter and what hormone profile those materials are more and less compatible with. I believe that's the dysphoria and in the past (prior DSM model) was treated primarily with therapy and some pharma and generally improved outcomes after the age of 26 (full brain development).

 

[Danzilla31]

While I fully support universal health care, I don't think Canada's system should be looked on as a model to be emulated. We have a lot of problems.

To be fair I think healthcare for hundreds of millions of people is never going to be perfect in any model that a country tries to do it. Hopefully we can all learn from each model what works and what doesn't and can learn from each other

 

[highfigh]

How about the top 10 employment market in the US noted as of 2023

1.Public Schools in the US
7,062,560

2.Hospitals in the US
5,795,082

3.Fast Food Restaurants in the US
5,199,714

4.Professional Employer Organizations in the US
4,307,585

5.Office Staffing & Temp Agencies in the US
3,865,622

6.Single Location Full-Service Restaurants in the US
3,566,586

7.The Retail Market for Jewelry in the US
3,315,050

8.Colleges & Universities in the US
2,901,584

9.Supermarkets & Grocery Stores in the US
2,806,664

10.Hotels & Motels in the US
2,701,371

Other than hospitals, what do these have to do with health care costs?

 

[GO-NAD!]

The correct term for transgender is gender dysphoria. It is the mental disorder and it is what creates that feeling of being trapped in the wrong body. This then creates the distress that leads or is linked to extreme anxiety agoraphobia panic attack disorder depression higher rates of suicide and other mental illness as well. It also can drive the individual into extreme risk taking behaviour to try and distract them from they're internal feelings.

Proper treatment is critical and can be difficult with varying degrees of success. Gender changing surgery and hormone therapy used to only be done after the individual reached adulthood if less invasive treatment was unsuccessful. The surgery is very invasive can create enormous health problems and shorten life span and so can hormone therapy also hormone therapy is very hard on the brain nuerologically.

The procedure is not always successful in alleviating the disorder. And due to the extreme complications to the brain and body that hormone therapy and surgery can create was only done when an individual reached a certain age.

I thought gender dysphoria was the condition that leads people to want to physically transition. And, if successful, transition helps resolve the gender dysphoria condition.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I think this is where it get's problematic. The DSM in 2012, on compassionate grounds, removed the diagnostic term of gender dysphoria as a mental disorder, simply to remove the 'stigma' of a mental health diagnosis.

Thus arose the 'Gender Affirming Care Model' that has created some controversy.

So the change isn't a medically technical change.

They removed gender identity disorder* from the sexual disorders category, renamed it gender dysphoria, and put it in a category of its own.

*They changed the name because it implied that a person was "wrong in the head", as opposed to being in the wrong body.

The reality is just like people have different fast and slow twitch muscle fibers, there are different make up of brain matter and what hormone profile those materials are more and less compatible with. I believe that's the dysphoria and in the past (prior DSM model) was treated primarily with therapy and some pharma and generally improved outcomes after the age of 26 (full brain development).

Sometimes, the only effective treatment is to help with transition.

Here's an interesting article from The Atlantic:
A Gender-Care Debate Is Spreading Across Europe - The Atlantic

 

[ski2xblack]

The removal of healthy tissue to treat GID/gender dysphoria is nuts.

The "affirmation" modality is an end run around the ethical considerations that every other treatment modality is subject to. Medicalizing kids with GID/GD is not safe, it's not effective, does not demonstrate medical necessity, and consent is coerced through lies.

 

[ski2xblack]

 

[ski2xblack]

Sorry, Chris, as none of that is MAGA objections, but objections from those who respect biological science and material reality.

It's strange that Democrats and progressives have become the party of reality denial, as the GOP has traditionally been the ideological home to the bible thumpers, flat earthers, young earth creationism, etc. Just imagine our timeline with subtle changes, something like this:

MAGA: Homosexuality is a sin! But medical science has provided a solution, we can medically transition the gay away! [Iran's policy today]

Libs/progressives: Bigots! There is nothing sinful about homosexuality! The science isn't settled! In fact, the evidence supporting so called "gender affirming care" for minors is piss poor! How dare you subject children to such medical experimentation!

But now Dems and progressives have chucked biological reality for the orthodoxy of the gender cult. Strange times when US progressives are aligned in policy with Iranian mullahs.

More non-MAGA criticism of genderwang: it's profoundly misogynistic. It's regressing women's hard fought for sex based rights by decades.

The Women's rights movement, civil rights movement, and gay liberation movements were after tolerance and acceptance. Only genderism suggests to children that they need life long medicalization to be their "authentic selves." It's a postmodern body mod cult, goth on steroids.

 

[TLS Guy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that being transgender isn't a mental disorder per se, but the distress resulting from feeling trapped in a body that doesn't conform with your mental image can be enough to create a mental disorder. Do I have that right?

Yes, that’s the excuse.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

If a kid comes out as gay, I don't think it was because they were "turned". It would be because they were gay all along.

We are "friends" with a MAGA-loving family. Their older son is 8yo. We clearly can see early signs in his behavior that he is likely will be gay. Irony hasn't been lost on us

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

The same thing happened with racist politicians who so adamantly opposed interracial marriage, or miscegenation, as they called it. Remember Strom Thurmond? He was an outspoken racist senator from South Carolina. Only after he died did the story emerge that he had fathered one or several children with a black woman.

No doubt, Hypocrisy runs deep especially among MAGA cultists.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Yes, that’s the excuse.

Excuse? Does that mean you are against any medical assistance (hormone /surgery) to transition?

 

[Danzilla31]

They removed gender identity disorder* from the sexual disorders category, renamed it gender dysphoria, and put it in a category of its own.

*They changed the name because it implied that a person was "wrong in the head", as opposed to being in the wrong body.



Sometimes, the only effective treatment is to help with transition.

Here's an interesting article from The Atlantic:
A Gender-Care Debate Is Spreading Across Europe - The Atlantic

Schizophrenia was changed in the DSM to Schizo affective for that same reason. To avoid social stigma and loss of opportunity due to having a label like that.

I have no problem with changing a label for that reason.

The problem is that they are trying to not just change the label but also the treatment application.

Gender dysphoria is a highly complex genetic and nuerological disorder where areas of the brain are just not wired in a way where the individual mind feels they are in the correct body

The issue is that medication and cognitive and behavioral treatment can do a lot for individuals living with this condition. Some may not need to transition

Putting hormones of the opposite gender into an individuals body of they're natural born with physical gender is very dangerous it creates all sorts of problems for the body and the brain. Hormones are very powerful both to our biological and nuerological development. It will shorten they're life span

And the same with massive surgery to change healthy functioning areas of a human beings sexual organs.

What they are failing to address with the new application of diagnosis is that many who suffer from gender dysphoria with less invasive treatment can adapt to either accept the gender they are born with or become comfortable with they're different gender identity and how they want to express that identity without needing major hormonal or body surgery treatments.

This idea that only surgery can affect outcomes is very grossly overexaggerated right now.

In fact surgery and hormone therapy doesn't affect successful outcomes any more then noninvasive treatments do and the complications that can arise both physically and nuerologicaly can result in higher suicidal outcomes as well.

I'll repeat life altering surgery and hormonal therapy was only done when all other treatment decisions were exhausted and the individual had reached the adult age and permanent development of self identity and was able to rationally choose this final course of action after being made fully aware of the long term risks and consequences associated with the procedure.

Hormone therapy at 8 and body altering surgery at 16 was not the correct course of action for a reason. And it is still not the correct course of action.

Not to mention how many trends pharmacies and doctors have fallen into in the past with problems in youth where certain outcomes and treatments are emphasize over others to harmful effects.

 

[ski2xblack]

@GO-NAD! , adults are actually capable of consenting to whatever feminizing/masculinizing cosmetic hormone therapy or surgeries they like. But sterilizing and mutilating children is unconscionable. Adolescence is not a pathological condition. Stunting normal growth and development with puberty blockers or sterilizing cross sex hormones on the basis of ineffable gender identities causes real harm. Primum non nocere.

 

[jinjuku]

Adolescence is not a pathological condition

I've yet to figure out how, from a mental health, and medical diagnosis, with all the development that teens and pre-teens (entering puberty), how chaotic it can be can be accurately defined as 'transgender'.

I saw this video of this Disney exec talking about how both her kids where on the trans spectrum. I mean the odds are astronomical for that. But what isn't astronomical is parents steering their kids towards it:

Child exposes mother #youtube #shorts

www.youtube.com