So just what is it that bothers our maga folk about transgender particularly?

[jinjuku]

By the way name calling and sniping has already made me delete posts. I'll try and get the buffalo herd to go in a good direction with a salt lick first. If that doesn't work I'll have to take the Teddy Roosevelt approach. Figuratively speaking.

 

[lovinthehd]

Can you be more concise?

Can you? I think it's fairly obvious the fear in the maga crowd on this and a variety of other subjects. It's sort of a basis of their propaganda.

 

[TLS Guy]

So in summary I am fascinated on the next 10 to 20 years as we are seeing a genuine paradigm shift on how educators and even the government can be involved as compared to the parent. This power struggle will be interesting to see where the pendulum ends up at. I'm praying it ends up at the place where Trans individuals are helped and included but not at an imbalance to other individuals who are different in they're own unique ways.

Okay......

How about them JBL 698's???!!!!!

I think your observations are pertinent.

I think this issue has become a trend. I think social media has l exploded this problem.

My experience is that true gender dysphoria is incredibly rare, and generally that is not all that is wrong with these individuals.

I think we do have a serious problem with this issue, and I think there is a lot of blame to lay at the door of my profession. For too many doctors gender changing surgery has become an interesting and challenging exercise.

Lets be blunt changing a persons sex surgically is a massive mutilation. In addition the medication required will inevitably be significantly life shortening. Giving hormones of the opposite sex to a patient will cause multiple problems and will shorten life span.

Then we get to the complications of the surgery. We have an acquaintance who allowed their son to transition to female. This surgery involve amputation of the make genitalia. This creates long term urological complications which are life long. The construction of an artificial vagina results in having to isolated loop of colon, on a vascular pedicle and trying, and I emphasize trying, to construct an artificial vagina. In the case I have knowledge of, this all went horribly wrong. This will condemn this individual to life long horrendous complications.

Going the other way is virtually impossible as construction realistic and functional artificial male anatomy is next to impossible.

I don't believe any minor developing child should have their hormonal environment changed or be subjected to mutilating surgery, because that is what it is.

Lastly I believe societal influences, especially via social media are generating a lot of this havoc. Havoc is what it is.

Next door the family have two teenage girls. The older is not sure if she is a girl or a boy. The younger age 16 is convinced she is really a boy. She is already booked for bilateral mastectomies the mother informed us a couple of days ago.

This situation is outrageous and grossly immoral. So I absolutely would ban any procedure that mutilates any minors defining sexual anatomy. Doing so, is just plain wrong. History will judge this harshly, I'm certain.

Lastly if you look at the data, a male that transitioning to female, will more often than not date females and claim to be lesbian.

A female transitioning to male, will more often than not date males and claim to be homosexual.

To say my BS alarms on on high over most of this is putting it mildly.

If the consequences of all this were not so serious, I would not give a care. But the consequences are severe and in far to many cases likely to be catastrophic.

 

[Danzilla31]

I think your observations are pertinent.

I think this issue has become a trend. I think social media has l exploded this problem.

My experience is that true gender dysphoria is incredibly rare, and generally that is not all that is wrong with these individuals.

I think we do have a serious problem with this issue, and I think there is a lot of blame to lay at the door of my profession. For too many doctors gender changing surgery has become an interesting and challenging exercise.

Lets be blunt changing a persons sex surgically is a massive mutilation. In addition the medication required will inevitably be significantly life shortening. Giving hormones of the opposite sex to a patient will cause multiple problems and will shorten life span.

Then we get to the complications of the surgery. We have an acquaintance who allowed their son to transition to female. This surgery involve amputation of the make genitalia. This creates long term urological complications which are life long. The construction of an artificial vagina results in having to isolated loop of colon, on a vascular pedicle and trying, and I emphasize trying, to construct an artificial vagina. In the case I have knowledge of, this all went horribly wrong. This will condemn this individual to life long horrendous complications.

Going the other way is virtually impossible as construction realistic and functional artificial male anatomy is next to impossible.

I don't believe any minor developing child should have their hormonal environment changed or be subjected to mutilating surgery, because that is what it is.

Lastly I believe societal influences, especially via social media are generating a lot of this havoc. Havoc is what it is.

Next door the family have two teenage girls. The older is not sure if she is a girl or a boy. The younger age 16 is convinced she is really a boy. She is already booked for bilateral mastectomies the mother informed us a couple of days ago.

This situation is outrageous and grossly immoral. So I absolutely would ban any procedure that mutilates any minors defining sexual anatomy. Doing so, is just plain wrong. History will judge this harshly, I'm certain.

Lastly if you look at the data, a male that transitioning to female, will more often than not date females and claim to be lesbian.

A female transitioning to male, will more often than not date males and claim to be homosexual.

To say my BS alarms on on high over most of this is putting it mildly.

If the consequences of all this were not so serious, I would not give a care. But the consequences are severe and in far to many cases likely to be catastrophic.

Thank you so much for your information. You outline perfectly some of the fears I have for Trans individuals and just young people considering this period. Two of my patients had hormone therapy and body altering surgeries. The complications for they're health both mentally and physically were daunting.

It used to be because of the extreme nature that these procedures put the individuals mind and body through that this was only done as a last resort and the individual needed to be a certain age. Not just for the surgery but especially for the hormone therapy. Hormones have powerful effects on the body and brain chemistry. I'm afraid not enough studies have been done and there is not enough data acquired yet to understand the longer term effects this will put people through.

I just feel very apprehensive of doing such major procedures on younger individuals whose brain and bodies have not reached full maturity and are still going through a lot of development. I wish someone would really sit down and bluntly lay it out for them as you did what exactly this will do to them, they're life span, and theyre quality of life.

I feel in the current political climate of today that may not be being done.

What I strongly feel is that this conversation should not be introduced or encouraged by public education teachers and ill informed parents. And especially not without the families consent or not being made aware of the situation.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thank you so much for your information. You outline perfectly some of the fears I have for Trans individuals and just young people considering this period. Two of my patients had hormone therapy and body altering surgeries. The complications for they're health both mentally and physically were daunting.

It used to be because of the extreme nature that these procedures put the individuals mind and body through that this was only done as a last resort and the individual needed to be a certain age. Not just for the surgery but especially for the hormone therapy. Hormones have powerful effects on the body and brain chemistry. I'm afraid not enough studies have been done and there is not enough data acquired yet to understand the longer term effects this will put people through.

I just feel very apprehensive of doing such major procedures on younger individuals whose brain and bodies have not reached full maturity and are still going through a lot of development. I wish someone would really sit down and bluntly lay it out for them as you did what exactly this will do to them, they're life span, and theyre quality of life.

I feel in the current political climate of today that may not be being done.

What I strongly feel is that this conversation should not be introduced or encouraged by public education teachers and ill informed parents. And especially not without the families consent or not being made aware of the situation.

I think your point about informed consent is well taken. I have my suspicions that consent is now rarely properly informed.

I can tell you of another case of one of my son in laws uncles who transitioned. I don't know if he had surgery or not, but I know had hormone therapy and soon died of widespread vascular disease. I suspect that the hormone therapy had a huge hand in this outcome.

Pretty much every case I have heard of has had significant negative consequences.

This certainly needs keeping out of school discussions. As I'm sure you know, teenagers are highly impressionable and at that age can come to believe pretty much anything, and will also whole heartedly embrace the latest fads and trends. I'm very concerned this nonsense is very much a dangerous trending fad, that will reap a very grim harvest. To oppose this and take a stand against it, is not intolerance but highly reasoned argument, and a more than valid opinion to hold, and in fact the moral one.

 

[lovinthehd]

I expected more nutty religious nonsense to take a role as far as the maga sucking up to weird religious folk. The assumptions of how much this is playing a role with kids isn't surprising, altho the lack of evidence isn't. Seems mostly personal convictions so far for the most part. Morality of who particularly comes to mind....magas aren't quite known for morality.

 

[Danzilla31]

I expected more nutty religious nonsense to take a role as far as the maga sucking up to weird religious folk. The assumptions of how much this is playing a role with kids isn't surprising, altho the lack of evidence isn't. Seems mostly personal convictions so far for the most part. Morality of who particularly comes to mind....magas aren't quite known for morality.

Maybe that's because there are quiet a few conservatives out here who aren't maga and aren't hyper religious

Do you have anything to add to the conversation other then Maga this or maga that? Religious that or religious that?

Both myself and TLS Guy gave you specific examples from our profession and they're is plenty of links to Tik Tok and YouTube that have actual students recording on video or audio teachers pushing thus agenda

The information @TLS Guy is giving you is spot on dead accurate about the actual mental and physical dangers that can be connected to this.

As for women's rights and sports how can one not see the evidence?

You wanted to know why some people are concerned and we gave you facts and experience. Where are your facts and counter arguments?

And I hate to break it to you Lovin but it's not just conservatives who have concerns about this. There are liberals that have expressed they're concerns especially with women sports.

You want to know another group that doesn't like this certain fringe group of radical trans ideology. A big portion of the LGB community as well. Both patients of mine and another soldier who is gay all expressed they're dislike with the message and how it is being expressed. They're is a large amount of the community who don't like the message to children and don't like the canceling shaming and bullying tone of the message being expressed by certain parts of they're community. They feel it is actually causing regression division and more harm then good to they're community.

Here is a gay black man who expresses some points maybe you should listen to what he is saying

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe that's because there are quiet a few conservatives out here who aren't maga and aren't hyper religious

Do you have anything to add to the conversation other then Maga this or maga that? Religious that or religious that?

Both myself and TLS Guy gave you specific examples from our profession and they're is plenty of links to Tik Tok and YouTube that have actual students recording on video or audio teachers pushing thus agenda

The information @TLS Guy is giving you is spot on dead accurate about the actual mental and physical dangers that can be connected to this.

As for women's rights and sports how can one not see the evidence?

You wanted to know why some people are concerned and we gave you facts and experience. Where are your facts and counter arguments?

And I hate to break it to you Lovin but it's not just conservatives who have concerns about this. There are liberals that have expressed they're concerns especially with women sports.

You want to know another group that doesn't like this certain fringe group of radical trans ideology. A big portion of the LGB community as well. Both patients of mine and another soldier who is gay all expressed they're dislike with the message and how it is being expressed. They're is a large amount of the community who don't like the message to children and don't like the canceling shaming and bullying tone of the message being expressed by certain parts of they're community. They feel it is actually causing regression division and more harm then good to they're community.

Here is a gay black man who expresses some points maybe you should listen to what he is saying

Do you? I was pretty clear about the focus being more about maga than more reasonable people (altho the lack of feedback denying the magas from such is somewhat mystifying). I'm just more wondering about the legislative aspects of the maga crowd vs the feelings of "conservatives" in general. Hopefully most of the "conservatives" who are not with maga will someday voice their concerns rather than just say nothing?

 

[Dude#1279435]

Do you? I was pretty clear about the focus being more about maga than more reasonable people (altho the lack of feedback denying the magas from such is somewhat mystifying). I'm just more wondering about the legislative aspects of the maga crowd vs the feelings of "conservatives" in general. Hopefully most of the "conservatives" who are not with maga will someday voice their concerns rather than just say nothing?

Or they plan on voting for Trump again.

Irony in all this is the polls suggest DeSantis beats Biden, but Trump is favored in the primary and is predicted to lose to Biden.

 

[MaxInValrico]

you are one F'd up individual !

Look in the mirror.

 

[MaxInValrico]

Or they plan on voting for Trump again.

Irony in all this is the polls suggest DeSantis beats Biden, but Trump is favored in the primary and is predicted to lose to Biden.

DeSantis is a lying coward who can't beat a wet rag.

 

[Dude#1279435]

DeSantis is a lying coward who can't beat a wet rag.

I still think he would beat Biden though.

 

[highfigh]

Such as?

What didn't you understand? I responded to your comment. My reply means that I disagree, if you didn't understand it.

ALL Conservatives? Generalizing is a piss-poor way to try to make a point.

 

[cpp]

This is what is just out there and unfair. Take as an example Lia Thomas , whose real name is William was formally ranked 462 as a male swimmer in Division 1 @ Penn. . So he grew him some hair and took some transformation drugs and now as a trans, he dominated the Ivy League Women's Championships . He won the 500 by 7 seconds. So how is that fair to the real women that are competing who have trained to be the best they can be. Why should female athletes even compete at all, what for 2nd place.

 

[highfigh]

By the way name calling and sniping has already made me delete posts. I'll try and get the buffalo herd to go in a good direction with a salt lick first. If that doesn't work I'll have to take the Teddy Roosevelt approach. Figuratively speaking.

I think you'll need more than one salt lick- some of the herd don't want to lick something that was licked by something it disagrees with.

Oh, no! Not the big stick!

 

[Trell]

This is what is just out there and unfair. Take as an example Lia Thomas , whose real name is William was formally ranked 462 as a male swimmer in Division 1 @ Penn. . So he grew him some hair and took some transformation drugs and now as a trans, he dominated the Ivy League Women's Championships . He won the 500 by 7 seconds. So how is that fair to the real women that are competing who have trained to be the best they can be. Why should female athletes even compete at all, what for 2nd place.

It’s obviously not fair at all.

 

[jinjuku]

I think your observations are pertinent.

I think this issue has become a trend. I think social media has l exploded this problem.

My experience is that true gender dysphoria is incredibly rare, and generally that is not all that is wrong with these individuals.

I think we do have a serious problem with this issue, and I think there is a lot of blame to lay at the door of my profession. For too many doctors gender changing surgery has become an interesting and challenging exercise.

Lets be blunt changing a persons sex surgically is a massive mutilation. In addition the medication required will inevitably be significantly life shortening. Giving hormones of the opposite sex to a patient will cause multiple problems and will shorten life span.

Then we get to the complications of the surgery. We have an acquaintance who allowed their son to transition to female. This surgery involve amputation of the make genitalia. This creates long term urological complications which are life long. The construction of an artificial vagina results in having to isolated loop of colon, on a vascular pedicle and trying, and I emphasize trying, to construct an artificial vagina. In the case I have knowledge of, this all went horribly wrong. This will condemn this individual to life long horrendous complications.

Going the other way is virtually impossible as construction realistic and functional artificial male anatomy is next to impossible.

I don't believe any minor developing child should have their hormonal environment changed or be subjected to mutilating surgery, because that is what it is.

Lastly I believe societal influences, especially via social media are generating a lot of this havoc. Havoc is what it is.

Next door the family have two teenage girls. The older is not sure if she is a girl or a boy. The younger age 16 is convinced she is really a boy. She is already booked for bilateral mastectomies the mother informed us a couple of days ago.

This situation is outrageous and grossly immoral. So I absolutely would ban any procedure that mutilates any minors defining sexual anatomy. Doing so, is just plain wrong. History will judge this harshly, I'm certain.

Lastly if you look at the data, a male that transitioning to female, will more often than not date females and claim to be lesbian.

A female transitioning to male, will more often than not date males and claim to be homosexual.

To say my BS alarms on on high over most of this is putting it mildly.

If the consequences of all this were not so serious, I would not give a care. But the consequences are severe and in far to many cases likely to be catastrophic.

You know that to many this makes you the enemy, transphobic, and a bigot. Sounds like you don't align with the Gender Affirmative Care Model.

In the case of the two neighbor girls I was reading up on the concept of 2ndary gain.

 

[jinjuku]

I expected more nutty religious nonsense to take a role as far as the maga sucking up to weird religious folk. The assumptions of how much this is playing a role with kids isn't surprising, altho the lack of evidence isn't. Seems mostly personal convictions so far for the most part. Morality of who particularly comes to mind....magas aren't quite known for morality.

Your maga crowd diatribe is getting really tiring. We apparently have two clinicians of various disciplines now taking you up on your ask. Please engage their contributions.

When you don't, and you swing to magamagamaga it undermines any credibility.

So let me ask you this: Finland, Norway, Sweden, England are cautioning about the Gender Affirmative Care Model (that is the model the U.S. is full on implementing). We are seeing puberty blockers in children as young as 8, surgery I believe is at 16 for most states. Not all clinicians and doctors agree and it can be career ending call by a hardcore segment.

I don't see the ferver of ending careers and social ghettoing for staking an informed position on the matter any less rabid foaming at the mouth of your boogieman 'the maga folk'.

 

[jinjuku]

I'm just more wondering about the legislative aspects of the maga crowd vs the feelings of "conservatives" in general. Hopefully most of the "conservatives" who are not with maga will someday voice their concerns rather than just say nothing?

I don't want the government in the medical treatment side of the house. But given the reversals we are seeing in Europe with countries that have measurable better health outcomes I think our own AMA and related bodies need to have a confab.

I think in about 10 years we will have some medical malpractice lawsuits related to the issues we are discussing hitting.

 

[Trell]

You know that to many this makes you the enemy, transphobic, and a bigot.

@TLS Guy raises concerns I’ve read here in Sweden and I largely agree with him. All of this is very much less infected here than in USA.

It won’t make him a transphobic and a bigot over here, though.