So just what is it that bothers our maga folk about transgender particularly?

[Dude#1279435]

You're maga crowd diatribe it getting really tiring. We apparently have two clinicians of various disciplines now taking you up on your ask. Please engage their contributions.

When you don't, and you swing to magamagamaga it undermines any credibility.

So let me ask you this: Finland, Norway, Sweden, England are cautioning about the Gender Affirmative Care Model (that is the model the U.S. is full on implementing). We are seeing puberty blockers in children as young as 8, surgery I believe is at 16 for most states. Not all clinicians and doctors agree and it can be career ending call by a hardcore segment.

I don't see the ferver of ending careers and social ghettoing for staking an informed position on the matter any less rabid foaming at the mouth of your boogieman 'the maga folk'.

MAGA apparently is alive and well. Trump is up to his neck in lawsuits yet leads the primary polls.

However, I do agree with your position on the trans stuff above.

 

[Trell]

I don't want the government in the medical treatment side of the house.

OK, but then you point to European countries who all have universal health care which for sure involve the government:

But given the reversals we are seeing in Europe with countries that have measurable better health outcomes…

So you want universal health care for USA? For the American people that would be a great outcome both medically and economically.

 

[jinjuku]

OK, but then you point to European countries who all have universal health care which for sure involve the government:



So you want universal health care for USA? For the American people that would be a great outcome both medically and economically.

Their healthcare approaches are so different that your attempt to draw conclusions are almost impossible.

You are also dodging the facts of the matter. Primary one being do the listed countries do or do not have better health outcomes than the US?

This thread was started on the premise of maga republicans and make it a uniquely US focus thread. Does contrast and compare apply?

Why does it matter what mechanism generates better health outcomes.

 

[jinjuku]

So you want universal health care for USA? For the American people that would be a great outcome both medically and economically.

If I thought we wouldn't make an absolute mess of it. Sure.

 

[Trell]

Their healthcare approaches are so different that your attempt to draw conclusions are almost impossible

That it’s a very false argument from your very expensive health care industry that has a poor health outcome for your population. It really is a lie from that industry.

There is much research and statistics on this.

You are also dodging the facts of the matter. Primary one being do the listed countries do or do not have better health outcomes than the US?

I’m not sure what to mean here: Which facts am I dodging?

That USA has a very expensive health care system (measured in GDP, for instance) with poor health outcome for cost is well known, and continuing I’ve said all the time I’ve been a member here.

 

[Trell]

If I thought we wouldn't make an absolute mess of it. Sure.

In what way would it be an absolute mess? You could look up north at Canada.

 

[jinjuku]

That it’s a very false argument from your very expensive health care industry that has a poor health outcome for your population. It really is a lie from that industry.

There is much research and statistics on this.



I’m not sure what to mean here: Which facts am I dodging?

That USA has a very expensive health care system (measured in GDP, for instance) with poor health outcome for cost is well known, and continuing I’ve said all the time I’ve been a member here.

Not sure where the friction is then. Our healthcare is expensive and outcomes aren't as good as others. This I think will extend to our current gender affirmative care model.

Again I wish lovin would provide some context. I don't believe he's getting the desired responses since there isn't the maga crowd here that he thinks there is given he asked the question here instead of a reddit sub.

 

[jinjuku]

In what way would it be an absolute mess? You could look up north at Canada.

Primarily I don't think we would keep pharma, insurance, medical device manufacturers at arms length.

 

[Trell]

Not sure where the friction is then. Our healthcare is expensive and outcomes aren't as good as others. This I think will extend to our current gender affirmative care model.

I’ve no opinion whether or not the experimental surgeries or hormonal treatments are better or worse in USA vs EU for this. As I wrote earlier I largely agree with @TLS Guy here on if they should be done at all for minors, or at least a serious review on who can be candidates and at which age, maturity, and so forth.

I’m don’t know what “current gender affirmative care model” even means. Can you give some specific details?

 

[Trell]

Primarily I don't think we would keep pharma, insurance, medical device manufacturers at arms length.

In my haste I skipped over your “I don’t” at first reading of your post.

Why do you want to keep them close?

 

[jinjuku]

In my haste I skipped over your “I don’t” at first reading of your post.

Why do you want to keep them close?

Reread what I posted my point is I don't

 

[Trell]

Reread what I posted my point is I don't

I did so a number of times, but English is not my native language (as you know very well), thus my question to you. In case I misunderstood.

So we agree then to keep “pharma, insurance, medical device manufacturers at arms length.”?

 

[jinjuku]

I did so a number of times, but English is not my native language (as you know very well), thus my question to you. In case I misunderstood.

So we agree then to keep “pharma, insurance, medical device manufacturers at arms length.”?

What ever it is you are doing over there, when it's all said and done, seems to be better.

 

[jinjuku]

What I don't get is that on the conservative side of the fence smaller government and keeping government nose out of people personal business is a hallmark.

But here we are with the expansion of inserting themselves into medical policy.

This doesn't negate that at some fundamental level that government has a duty to protect citizens which given, what I believe low efficacy mental health care wrt to the affirmative care model, could in certain respects be hitting that point.

 

[Danzilla31]

What I don't get is that on the conservative side of the fence smaller government and keeping government nose out of people personal business is a hallmark.

But here we are with the expansion of inserting themselves into medical policy.

This doesn't negate that at some fundamental level that government has a duty to protect citizens which given, what I believe low efficacy mental health care wrt to the affirmative care model, could in certain respects be hitting that point.

This is part of my disillusionment with the Republican party as it is today. We have a value system which we will break when it's convenient for us.

But as you stated this is may be a fundamental issue that may be causing them to use big gov on this issue. When these policies are pushed and taught in public schools and can impact kids that are not really gender dysphoric. Then it becomes a problem. Because by pushing it in public schools your making it they're problem. It's the classic separation between religion in schools. People didn't want religion to be forced on them in a public education setting. I think the same issue applies here. Your forcing it on people and as you stated if you don't want to learn it like some didn't want to learn a religion they didn't agree with you are cancelled bullied shamed and even cancelled.

That's the issue that I think has made them want to rely on fed gov intervention.

My biggest read on conservatives that aren't reacting to this as Lovin said from a hyper religious stand point or an extremist view is they really don't care what people chose to become when they reach the age of legal adulthood. But they draw the line when it comes to public education about this especially with youth in a public education setting both in sports and education.

Combine this with the data that as you mentioned has shown there can be serious life long consequences for this and it may be being pushed to hard not always appropriately then well you have a powder keg of a policy situation here.

 

[Danzilla31]

What I don't get is that on the conservative side of the fence smaller government and keeping government nose out of people personal business is a hallmark.

But here we are with the expansion of inserting themselves into medical policy.

This doesn't negate that at some fundamental level that government has a duty to protect citizens which given, what I believe low efficacy mental health care wrt to the affirmative care model, could in certain respects be hitting that point.

I mean they're is one point that resonates with me. And the gay gentleman whose video I linked about this said it perfectly.

We don't let kids use certain drugs drink vote drive engage in sexual behaviour with adults past a certain age because they are impressionable vulnerable dont fully know themselves yet. Yet we are going to allow them to engage in permanent life altering and life changing surgeries and hormone therapies before they become fully developed adults?

Like you said hormone therapy at 8 and surgeries at 16? That's insane to me your still not allowed to do certain things legally at 16 because we can usually all agree they may not know better yet. But you can permanently alter your body in a way that has serious impact on your quality of life and your mental health?

I agree with you that many European countries have seemed to figure out public health care better then we have. And literally every single one of them is not on board or have very strong concerns with our gender affirmative care model here in the US. That should give one pause right there

 

[highfigh]

This is what is just out there and unfair. Take as an example Lia Thomas , whose real name is William was formally ranked 462 as a male swimmer in Division 1 @ Penn. . So he grew him some hair and took some transformation drugs and now as a trans, he dominated the Ivy League Women's Championships . He won the 500 by 7 seconds. So how is that fair to the real women that are competing who have trained to be the best they can be. Why should female athletes even compete at all, what for 2nd place.

In what way would it be an absolute mess? You could look up north at Canada.

According to the link, "One in eight U.S. citizens is employed in the healthcare industry."- that's more than the entire population of Canada, many other countries and at least one continent.

28 Astonishing U.S. Healthcare Industry Statistics [2023]: U.S. Healthcare Industry Overview - Zippia

The U.S. healthcare industry is the third-largest in the country, and it impacts the life of almost every American.

www.zippia.com

Money is a prime motivator for many in that area.

 

[jinjuku]

This is interesting. Lesbian dating site 'HER' ban's members that state in their bio or picture that they aren't interested in MTF's. Labeled as transphobic.

I guess there may be a few non-conservatives... Can't make this stuff up.

 

[cpp]

According to the link, "One in eight U.S. citizens is employed in the healthcare industry."- that's more than the entire population of Canada, many other countries and at least one continent.

28 Astonishing U.S. Healthcare Industry Statistics [2023]: U.S. Healthcare Industry Overview - Zippia

The U.S. healthcare industry is the third-largest in the country, and it impacts the life of almost every American.

www.zippia.com

Money is a prime motivator for many in that area.

How about the top 10 employment market in the US noted as of 2023

1.Public Schools in the US
7,062,560

2.Hospitals in the US
5,795,082

3.Fast Food Restaurants in the US
5,199,714

4.Professional Employer Organizations in the US
4,307,585

5.Office Staffing & Temp Agencies in the US
3,865,622

6.Single Location Full-Service Restaurants in the US
3,566,586

7.The Retail Market for Jewelry in the US
3,315,050

8.Colleges & Universities in the US
2,901,584

9.Supermarkets & Grocery Stores in the US
2,806,664

10.Hotels & Motels in the US
2,701,371

 

[GO-NAD!]

The issue for me as a professional is the fact that Trans individuals are truly experiencing a physical and mental disorder as real as bipolar depression substance abuse ocd ptsd and on and on.

It does not make them defective. They are actually beautifuly unique. An alcoholic or addict will always have a brain that's wired different then a normal brain. But an addict or alcoholic can just like with bipolar and depression and other chemical and physical issues that cause human beings to react ij unique ways to live different with the correct treatment they can live happy successful beautiful lives uniquely wonderful lives. This same thing is true for a human being who is born as a Trans individual.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that being transgender isn't a mental disorder per se, but the distress resulting from feeling trapped in a body that doesn't conform with your mental image can be enough to create a mental disorder. Do I have that right?