Bought new Onkyo TX-NR6050, hope I won't regret

[William Lemmerhirt]

No, Dolby doesn’t use the “height” or “presence” speaker terminology though both predate Atmos. “Dolby Enabled” speaker confuses some because they should have just called it an upfiring Atmos module.

I do believe you’re right. Dolby refers to them as “overhead” speakers. They only care about angles since the renderer is based on angles. Ironically, the AVR does reference heights separately from tops seen here.

Been flapping about this shitt so long, I just lump some of it together. I agree Atmos enabled is a stoopid way to refer to upfiring modules, which could be equally confusing lol.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yeah, receiver manufacturers were wise not to rewrite their manuals in that way as many already were incorporating “height” or “presence” speakers in their systems that were in locations that were “acceptable” to dolby for atmos duty.

If I had a large and tall room to dedicate to it, I’d have matching speakers all the way up and around for “object based” formats. You know, like the mastering pros do. Matching surround and surround back speakers to fronts can be pulled off far more easily than ceiling mounted and upfiring “modules

Remember when surround sound was a mono extraction sent to barely capable surround speakers? Those days are gone. Soon enough, as has been their way, dolby will introduce an improvement to atmos that includes expanded signals to atmos modules that requires more capable speakers. Some will have gotten ahead it.

If this s#%t is “object based,” why should that object lose its presence and impact while moving throughout the space because of the signal and speaker mismatches? We are in phase I of this s#%t. How many pro logic iterations were there? My apologies for the digression.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yeah, receiver manufacturers were wise not to rewrite their manuals in that way as many already were incorporating “height” or “presence” speakers in their systems that were in locations that were “acceptable” to dolby for atmos duty.

If I had a large and tall room to dedicate to it, I’d have matching speakers all the way up and around for “object based” formats. You know, like the mastering pros do. Matching surround and surround back speakers to fronts can be pulled off far more easily than ceiling mounted and upfiring “modules

Remember when surround sound was a mono extraction sent to barely capable surround speakers? Those days are gone. Soon enough, as has been their way, dolby will introduce an improvement to atmos that includes expanded signals to atmos modules that requires more capable speakers. Some will have gotten ahead it.

If this s#%t is “object based,” why should that object lose its presence and impact while moving throughout the space because of the signal and speaker mismatches? We are in phase I of this s#%t. How many pro logic iterations were there? My apologies for the digression.
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Oh yeah, I remember the original “dolby surround”. That shipped has definitely sailed lol. I would love to have matching full range speakers all around. I mean heights do receive full range signals so wth!!! Unfortunately for most it’s just not practical, even towers as surrounds/rears/center are extremely difficult.
I think a better collaborative between Dolby and AVR manufacturers would be nice. Like why the Fukk does Yamaha still call height/top speakers PRESENCE????? WHY?!?!?! Fukk….. talk about muddying the waters. But now it’s my turn to digress lol.
Btw, I’ve. Been seeing a couple guys who are adding subs to their ceilings and crossing only the heights to only tye ceiling subs trying for true full range heights. I’m interested to see how these will turn out.

 

[Trebdp83]

You'd think they are sending full range signals. Yet, when looking at some speakers with built in dolby enabled modules on top, actual speaker specs are missing and statements such as "they meet Dolby's spec for modules" are made about them. So, what are the specs of the signals and modules? I think everybody is tap dancing as quickly as they can until AC-4 rolls around and the more efficient process allows for more signal information in the current and near future state of bandwidth. Whatever they do, they need to fix the dialogue bleed issues related to Dolby Surround upmixing. DTS Neural:X/Virtual:X is the hands down winner there when upmixing DD 2.0/5.1 signals after comparing them across three different AVR brands. In the meantime, Onkyo really needs to sort out their manuals. The TX-NR6050 owners who have no experience with other Onkyo models are being robbed. I have a TX-NR777. I knew what would be gained and lost when I picked up a TX-NR696 and I thought I knew what would be gained and lost when getting a TX-NR6050. I was able to figure it out but the manual was actually working against me in many ways.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

You'd think they are sending full range signals. Yet, when looking at some speakers with built in dolby enabled modules on top, actual speaker specs are missing and statements such as "they meet Dolby's spec for modules" are made about them. So, what are the specs of the signals and modules? I think everybody is tap dancing as quickly as they can until AC-4 rolls around and the more efficient process allows for more signal information in the current and near future state of bandwidth. Whatever they do, they need to fix the dialogue bleed issues related to Dolby Surround upmixing. DTS Neural:X/Virtual:X is the hands down winner there when upmixing DD 2.0/5.1 signals after comparing them across three different AVR brands. In the meantime, Onkyo really needs to sort out their manuals. The TX-NR6050 owners who have no experience with other Onkyo models are being robbed. I have a TX-NR777. I knew what would be gained and lost when I picked up a TX-NR696 and I thought I knew what would be gained and lost when getting a TX-NR6050. I was able to figure it out but the manual was actually working against me in many ways.

Not sure what you mean about missing specs, but I do know that Atmos modules have a notch in the FR and XO to help with the HRTF to aid in the illusion of overhead sound. Is that possibly what you mean?

 

[Trebdp83]

I meant the speakers' frequency specs. It's not a big deal really. I'd put built in modules or modules designed to sit atop front speakers in the same category as built in subs. Placement that is optimal for front speakers isn't necessarily optimal for subs and modules and usually is not so. So, compromises will have to be made when using those kinds of speakers. Even if one can accommodate matching speakers all the way around, poor placement and various settings choices will compromise the experience. Basing those decisions on the information in a poorly written manual is a recipe for frustration and disappointment.

 

[Mike Up]

Look what I found.

Select english and it goes to the correct manual version!

This version is mostly correct but still says HDR10+ on all inputs and DD 5.1 will still not play in DD 7.1 with any surround back channel output.


However it correctly states there's only absolute volume display, that there is a 8K Enhanced selection, and has new resolution tables showing HDMI Inputs 1,2 & 3 are HDMI 2.1 40Gbps 8K 60p uncompressed compatible but HDMI Inputs 4, 5, & 6 are HDMI 2.0 18Gbps 4K 60p only compatible inputs.

You have to use the link thats provided in the quick setup guide that comes with the receiver to get correct manuals.

Going to Onkyo website under receiver docs brings up inaccurate manuals.

 

[Mike Up]

Found out that none THX receiver don't have the option of relative volume display and only have absolute volume display. Onkyo the THX receivers have relative volume display.

Even the none THX TX-RZ630 that had 90watts/channel with 9 channel output only had absolute display since it doesn't have THX.

I guess that relative volume display is somehow tied to the THX feature.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yes, that is the way Onkyo has gone with it. No THX, no Relative volume display. Others don’t have it tied to THX.

 

[Bald Italian]

ALERT
As of yesterday through the 1st of November, Costco has dropped the price of the Onkyo TX-NR6050 $100 to $399.99. If you're sitting on the fence about this receiver, I'd jump on it right now.
I paid $439.99 in September for it and Costco was kind enough to price match my purchase to reflect the $399.99 price reduction.

 

[Mike Up]

Thanks for the heads up. Did the price match in store or online?

 

[Bald Italian]

Thanks for the heads up. Did the price match in store or online?

I believe it is only available online.

 

[Mike Up]

Think I came to a decision on where to put speakers.

I'm replacing all 4 infinity speakers with Polk TL1 speakers

I currently have speakers 3' above listening position flat on the walls, no angle. Did this per Dolby/Denon recommendation and to keep away from kids and animals

I did feel the sounds were portrayed too high above the listening position at 3'. Bringing the speakers down will put the sound field more inline with the front speakers.

So I'm going to bring them down to be 1' above listeners heads so everyone gets an unobstructed sound path and so that they are not blaring in the closest listeners ears. This is a common recommendation on the internet even though Dolby updated the recommendation now from 3' above listener to ear level.

Most feel ear level is too low and obstructs some listeners sound paths.

I'm going to keep them flat, to keep them from blaring in listeners ears on the side listening positions. A more diffused sound has always been recommended for 5.1/7.1 .

I really never plan on rear atmos speakers as they just cant be installed to work correctly in my room.

Surround back speakers will be 1' to 1.5' behind and 1' above listeners ears to convey sound coming from behind, not above. The surround speakers will be at 90⁰ or 100⁰ to the sides of listeners from center/main listening position with surround backs at 135⁰ or in line with front main speakers .

 

[Mike Up]

I believe it is only available online.

Ok, I'll see if they'll price match online, thanks.

 

[Mike Up]

I believe it is only available online.

Thank you, I got my price match as well! $400, 50% the cost of the TX-NR6100!

 

[Mike Up]

Wow, Dolby Atmos speaker placement is confusing. According to this great Dolby setup page, I'm best doing what I stated above.

The first part states my surround speakers can be 1.25 x the listeners ear level which puts me roughly at the 1' above the listeners ear level I want to be at.

It appears that 7.1 is dolby surround and not considered Atmos surround even though the Atmos signal is used. It's only considered Atmos surround when sound comes from the ceiling of the room. So they call 7.1 atmos when used with virtualized speakers. So speaker virtualization should work since my surround speakers will be low enough if I choose to use the speaker virtualizer. Surprised none of the receiver maker's say you can go 1.25X ear level as they all say must be at ear level.

After looking at this document, no way, no how will any atmos height speaker, top rear speaker, or rear atmos enabled speaker ever work in my setup. It also appears that they don't recommend rear atmos speakers until the front atmos speakers are installed. So no rear atmos speakers should be installed if no front atmos speakers are installed. Interesting as the Onkyo allows rear atmos enabled speakers, rear top speakers, and rear height speakers. Denon allows rear atmos enabled speakers with no front atmos speakers. Only the Yamaha receiver would not allow rear atmos speakers for their 7.1 receivers which is what Dolby seems to be saying.

 

[Trebdp83]

In a 5.1.2 setup, top middle would be the optimal location for atmos speakers. Top front and top rear would be the optimal locations for 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 atmos configurations.

Some simply cannot accommodate height speakers in their setup. They can try height virtualization with their 5.1 or 7.1 setups after making any necessary speaker location adjustments.

 

[Mike Up]

In a 5.1.2 setup, top middle would be the optimal location for atmos speakers. Top front and top rear would be the optimal locations for 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 atmos configurations.

Yes you're right, I skipped that top middle speaker option as it's offered with both 5.1.2 and 7.1.2. Funny how those top middle speakers are in the same position as the Top front speakers when used in a 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 .

Like I said, confusing.

Another thing is that Dolby seems to recommend Reflecting Dolby enabled speakers over top speakers because of their compatibility. Top speakers are limited with ceiling heights and such. Also Dolby seems to recommend against using standard speakers aimed down as top speakers because of their dispersion pattern. Top speakers have a wider dispersion pattern than normal speakers. Another reason why they recommend reflecting Dolby Enabled speakers, for people who can't install in-ceiling top speakers.

Some simply cannot accommodate height speakers in their setup. They can try height virtualization with their 5.1 or 7.1 setups after making any necessary speaker location adjustments.

True, very restrictive in their placement.

Overall, Dolby seems to like Reflecting Dolby Enabled speaker the best. Dolby Enabled speakers seem like the best option as long as they are far enough back behind the listening area.

 

[Trebdp83]

Dolby is recommending “dolby enabled speakers,” or add-on modules, only because ceiling mounted speakers are a hard sell for many and they need to market it. The modules are compromised from the get go ad they sit atop or are built into front speakers. Optimal placement for both will be compromised.

I know, I should talk, what with my virtual height speakers. Hey, at least Dolby Atmos Height Virtualization uses ALL of the speakers in the configuration to achieve a sense of height. Those modules are bulls#%t. For all the talk about full range signals all around for Atmos, Dolby actually says, “Typically, these speakers are not full range.” They also say they “produce a more diffuse sound.” Nobody is mastering tracks using this s#%t.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Confusing indeed. Not to mention there are at least a few different “guides” out there.
Just one note mike. The 1.25X reference is to the height of your mains not ears. I know, it’s almost probably the same thing but all the measurements and angles are referenced to the other speakers with the exception of the seated ear to ceiling measurement to find 45° fore and aft.