Bought new Onkyo TX-NR6050, hope I won't regret

M

Mike Up

Audioholic
The lack of THX cert is no loss at all save for the lack of the Relative volume setting. I do wish FlareConnect had stayed around. The big wins for the 6050 over the 696 are eARC, HDR10+ and HDMI 2.1 features support. There are little physical changes here and there. Wouldn’t suggest the 696 over the 6050 or even suggest spending the extra money on the 6100.
Good to know. Never really cared about THX and I guess no one else did either as other receivers have dropped it except for Onkyo/Integra.

Weird as the TX-NR6050 ($500 MSRP) and Pioneer Elite VSX-LX105 ($900 MSRP) seem to be clones with Pioneer having the additional IR in, 12V trigger out, RS232 control port and detachable AC cord. Not really worth almost twice the cost. With the TX-NR6100 MSRP being $800, I guess THX doesn't cost that much but automation ports seem to. I've had the IR, Triggers, and RS232 ports and never used them.

All three TX-NR6050, TX-NR6100, VSX-LX105 seem to be clones with slight feature differences.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
If anyone cares, I did find that Onkyo switched from AKM AK4458 DACs to lower end Burr Brown PCM1690 DACs for the TX-NR6050 and 2021 receiver line.
 
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B

Bald Italian

Enthusiast
If anyone cares, I did find that Onkyo switched from AKM AK4458 DACs to lower end Burr Brown PCM1690 DACs for the TX-NR6050 and 2021 receiver line.
I don’t think the Burr Brown DAC is considered lower end in reality.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
I don’t think the Burr Brown DAC is considered lower end in reality.
Supposedly it has more noise than the AKM. The only reason why Denon/Marantz and Onkyo/Integra have gone to Texas Instruments Burr Brown DACs is because they can't get AKM as they had a factory fire and couldn't produce any product.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
It may be a concern for some but not an issue for me. It gets the job done.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
Well I'm trying out a Denon AVR-S960h that had the price drop from $850 to $600. From reading the manual, it is everything I want even with legacy inputs missing from the newer AVR-S970h and Onkyo TX-NR6050 that I could use with my legacy equipment. It's short on 8K inputs only offering 1 but then again all 6 HDMI inputs are 2.1 and compatible with HDR10+ unlike the TX-NR6050 that only has three 2.1 HDMI inputs that are compatible with HDR10+.

For 8K in the future, I can always add a8K HDMI switch box to the one 8K HDMI input, if I ever need it. Denon has a three 8K input switch input that integrates with the receiver using it's AVR Control scheme by replacing 2 of the 4K only inputs with the 2 extra 8K inputs of the switch box. That's an exclusive Denon control. OR I can just use a regular 8K switch box and use a remote to change inputs or HDMI CES control.

While I like the Onkyo TX-NR6050, it's has to many quirks and has weird designs as playing 5.1 soundtrack's surround channel information through the surround "BACK" speakers on a 7.1 speaker setup. For me, this provides worst sound as my Surround backs are directly behind and not much off to the sides. I think having the surround speakers and surround back speakers playing the same surround channel information would had been better. Plus Direct mode should put the signal to the correct speakers, that's what a direct mode is suppose to do besides shutting off processing.

To me, this receiver functions weird. I have had to do numerous resets and do research on items either missing from the manual or incorrectly stated in manual. To be honest, never seen a piece of electronics done like this ever. To me, it's very unprofessional.

While it was a great buy at $400, I started having buyer's remorse because of things it did that didn't make sense or follow standards. Here's an example, it's late night mode has no dynamic compression adjustment like every other receiver. It's either on or off.

Another in the center spread, it's either on or off, but no adjustments like other receivers.

Then there's the weird front channel, center and subwoofer level adjustment for different modes but it doesn't stay and resets when the receiver is off. Really no good for this as it's missing surround speaker levels and it's not permanent.

Also the information display doesn't list what speaker outputs are playing. Never understood why Dolby Surround and Atmos say "Dolby Surround 7.1" or "Atmos 7.1" with virtualizer on but only say "Dolby Surround" or "Atmos" with it off.

Another why does the volume bar change to magenta with a Dolby Vision movie but no mention of the color changing volume bar in the manual.

Another is that DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 "B" has a "B" but no explanation of what it is for. I had to find that out here. I then had to keep experimenting until I found what changed the volume bar magenta.

Then there's the wildly inaccurate manual that does more to confuse than help you.

It's a very good sounding receiver with a great price for sure and great features, but it's design is very weird to me and lacks what I consider some standard Dolby Digital features. I feel like an early BETA tester for this receiver.

Another is why is there only 3 HDMI 2.1 inputs that are compatible with HDR10+ but then it's only mentioned in a data sheet correctly and mentioned in the manual incorrectly.

I'm really seeing why Onkyo receivers are inexpensive compared to Yamaha and Denon. It's not that they are inferior but some feature shortcomings that make a meaningful difference and lack of a good instruction guide in how to operate them and what formats they are compatible with.

The one thing that is going for it over all other brands is their simplicity but at some features as I said. For people who need this simplicity, the weirdness of the receiver may not even be apparent to them.

I guess the final straw that broke the camels back was the inconsistency of what speakers, played what channel information. Dolby formats flipped surround speaker output with surround "REAR" speaker output in a 7.1 setup with Straight dolby modes and Direct Mode. BUT DTS plays all 4 surround and surround "REAR" speakers with a 5.1 soundtrack in Straight model with a 7.1 speaker setup, but plays surround channel info in the surround speakers with the surround back speakers off, in Direct mode! Speaker output is all Willy Nilly depending on what sound format (dolby or dts) you use. Nothing follows standards or consistency.

Now if the Denon AVR-S960h comes and it's serial number is below 70001 (meaning it still has the 8K HDMI bug) not sure what I'll do. I may just go back to my Denon AVR-2312ci in the living room and the Denon AVR-3803 in the Media Room.
 
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T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Well, that took a turn, didn't it?;) If your channel level settings were not being kept after powering off the unit, then it had an internal issue and probably needed replacing anyway. It is a "budget" unit and features are missing for cost AND higher end model considerations. The issue with audio of surround channels being output to the surround back channels instead when playing Dolby 5.1 material is strange, but it is what it is. The new Dolby and DTS up mixers cater to object placement with height channels and the surround back channels are now the most expendable when considering configuration of speakers with height channels. It isn't so willy nilly. The manual informed you that info would come from the surround back channels and not the surround channels with Dolby 5.1 signals with a 7.1 configuration and that is only the case if not using the Dolby Surround up mixer and using a "straight" Dolby decode.

Don't confuse the HDMI 2.1spec as a whole with supported features and bandwidth. HDR10+ is not an HDMI 2.1 feature and worked with HDMI 2.0. Onkyo simply left support for it off three ports because it is a "budget" model. There are trade offs when you try to save a buck. HDR10+ is scarcely available on disc and streaming services anyway no matter if streaming devices, receivers and TVs support it. Do not worry about 8K in your lifetime. Services are barely able to get quality, highly compressed 4K HDR to customers now. The bandwidth is not there and will not be there for a long time. There are very few devices supporting 48Gbps at the moment and many may not support it for years and will have to make do with using DSC to squeeze bandwidth hogs into the pipe. Streaming content, and even watching UHD discs, does not require more than the 18Gbps and 4K Enhanced features of HDMI 2.0. Do not be consumed with getting every feature under the sun because there is NO single device on the planet that offers it ALL. And, just as soon as they add new features, they take some old ones away.

Save some of your energy for the complaints you will have about the Denon. There have been many changes in their displays and features over the years. The great front panel display of Denons from years ago is gone and you will see incoming channel info but not output channels unless you bring up the on screen display. I hate the abbreviated display of the input source and sound mode on new models. Center Spread is not adjustable anymore and it is an ON or OFF affair. While supporting legacy analog devices, there are limitations so read that manual from front to back. The S models give up features from the X models. HEOS sucks, period. It was one of a few reasons I returned the S760H for the TX-NR6050. Getting exactly what you need and want in a receiver requires research and often times more money. It became ridiculously expensive to continue to get the kind of build quality and feature set of the 3803 with later model Denons and I just went another way after using a couple of other Denon models after the 3803 and gave Onkyo a shot. It worked out for me, but perhaps not so much for others.
 
B

Bald Italian

Enthusiast
Well, that took a turn, didn't it?;) If your channel level settings were not being kept after powering off the unit, then it had an internal issue and probably needed replacing anyway. It is a "budget" unit and features are missing for cost AND higher end model considerations. The issue with audio of surround channels being output to the surround back channels instead when playing Dolby 5.1 material is strange, but it is what it is. The new Dolby and DTS up mixers cater to object placement with height channels and the surround back channels are now the most expendable when considering configuration of speakers with height channels. It isn't so willy nilly. The manual informed you that info would come from the surround back channels and not the surround channels with Dolby 5.1 signals with a 7.1 configuration and that is only the case if not using the Dolby Surround up mixer and using a "straight" Dolby decode.

Don't confuse the HDMI 2.1spec as a whole with supported features and bandwidth. HDR10+ is not an HDMI 2.1 feature and worked with HDMI 2.0. Onkyo simply left support for it off three ports because it is a "budget" model. There are trade offs when you try to save a buck. HDR10+ is scarcely available on disc and streaming services anyway no matter if streaming devices, receivers and TVs support it. Do not worry about 8K in your lifetime. Services are barely able to get quality, highly compressed 4K HDR to customers now. The bandwidth is not there and will not be there for a long time. There are very few devices supporting 48Gbps at the moment and many may not support it for years and will have to make do with using DSC to squeeze bandwidth hogs into the pipe. Streaming content, and even watching UHD discs, does not require more than the 18Gbps and 4K Enhanced features of HDMI 2.0. Do not be consumed with getting every feature under the sun because there is NO single device on the planet that offers it ALL. And, just as soon as they add new features, they take some old ones away.

Save some of your energy for the complaints you will have about the Denon. There have been many changes in their displays and features over the years. The great front panel display of Denons from years ago is gone and you will see incoming channel info but not output channels unless you bring up the on screen display. I hate the abbreviated display of the input source and sound mode on new models. Center Spread is not adjustable anymore and it is an ON or OFF affair. While supporting legacy analog devices, there are limitations so read that manual from front to back. The S models give up features from the X models. HEOS sucks, period. It was one of a few reasons I returned the S760H for the TX-NR6050. Getting exactly what you need and want in a receiver requires research and often times more money. It became ridiculously expensive to continue to get the kind of build quality and feature set of the 3803 with later model Denons and I just went another way after using a couple of other Denon models after the 3803 and gave Onkyo a shot. It worked out for me, but perhaps not so much for others.
Good advice and absolutely the truth. One has to research and, inevitably, spend a lot more money to get exactly what you want. This 6050 is quite amazing for the money and it has surpassed my expectations.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
The issues with the NR6050 carry over to the NR6100, NR7100, and RZ50. Not really budget model issues but entire line issues.

The manual did not state anything about flipping the surround speaker output with the surround rear speaker output until I requested they update the manual to reflect that. The 5100 and 7100 did state it in their manuals though.

From what I see is that the x2700H has 1 year longer warranty, 5 more paper watts, detachable power cord, more zone 2 features, and Audyssey XT vs S960h standard Audyssey. Not much different than that. Even same weight. Price came down to $800 on x2700h so for those differences it's an additional $200. I dont like room correction especially the Audyssey, and i don't use zone 2. So that's why I didnt consider the X2700h.

I'll see if I like the S960H. I went through manual and data tables for sourround modes several times and it mirrors my AVR-2312ci very closely.

Also most content I watch is in either Dolby Vision HDR or HDR10+, with some standard HDR10. So HDR10+ compatibility was a high priority.
 
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B

Bald Italian

Enthusiast
The issues with the NR6050 carry over to the NR6100, NR7100, and RZ50. Not really budget model issues but entire line issues.

The manual did not state anything about flipping the surround speaker output with the surround rear speaker output until I requested they update the manual to reflect that. The 5100 and 7100 did state it in their manuals though.

From what I see is that the x2700H has 1 year longer warranty, 5 more paper watts, detachable power cord, more zone 2 features, and Audyssey XT vs S960h standard Audyssey. Not much different than that. Even same weight. Price came down to $800 on x2700h so for those differences it's an additional $200. I dont like room correction especially the Audyssey, and i don't use zone 2. So that's why I didnt consider the X2700h.

I'll see if I like the S960H. I went through manual and data tables for sourround modes several times and it mirrors my AVR-2312ci very closely.

Also most content I watch is in either Dolby Vision HDR or HDR10+, with some standard HDR10. So HDR10+ compatibility was a high priority.
Sorry to see you go. You've spent a lot of time, energy and very useful information on the 6050. I wish you luck and hope you're happy. :)
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
The 7.1 behavior is not an "issue" but a decision made by Onkyo. The surround back channels were never really essential for surround sound and in the age of "object" based formats, they are the most expendable speakers in a configuration as those who can accommodate height speakers or up firing modules will opt for a 5.1.2 configuration and the surround back behavior regarding dolby 5.1 on Onkyos will not be an issue at all. Now, the poorly constructed manual for the 6050 was and still is an issue. But, it is a bit naive to think that behaviors in the 6100, 7100 and RZ50 would somehow be absent in the 6050. But, we all thank you for the amended manual as I'm sure your efforts are what turned it all around.;) I'm making light of it all at this point. If you knew what I've gone through with Yamaha over the last year or so you'd understand. You will find different behaviors among all brands of receivers regarding Dolby and DTS up mixing. These are not hardware or software issues but have everything to do with licensing deals. Those with deep pockets can cut the best deals. Do you really think Apple didn't lock up some great deals to keep Spotify from starting their lossless service? Did you ever wonder why the PS5 didn't support dolby Atmos from the get go? But, I digress.

For clarification, ALL commercially available HDR content on disc and streaming services has HDR10 at its core, ALL OF IT. Much of it supports Dolby Vision as well but very little of it supports HDR10+. Having devices and TVs that support HDR10+ means nothing if the content and service on which it is streamed or the UHD disc do not support it. Some devices can change their output format to HDR but that does not magically convert the content. There is no night and day difference when viewing different HDR formats on a quality TV. Sometimes one format may have a barely noticeable improvement in presentation depending on the content and lose that edge with different content. Much of what people are viewing in HDR is coming over in HDR10 for a number of reasons. Sometimes Dolby Vision and HDR10+ aren't coming over because of various settings in TVs and devices or they simply aren't supported for the content. In any of those cases, any HDR being viewed is HDR10. I'll take HDR10 on an OLED TV over anything on an LED TV any day of the week. But, we all have our preferences and breaking points regarding equipment. I loved my Denons, but they took the 7.1 EXT IN and universal remote controllers from the 3XXX models a long time ago so I moved on. I gave the "budget" yet very capable S760H a shot but HEOS is s#%t and it didn't have some of the features of the Onkyos that I've come to enjoy. Anybody wanting analog input ports for legacy equipment could have avoided lots of headaches if they had considered receivers with those ports from the get go. Again, always start by considering what features you need now for your particular setup and then go from there. Don't try to future proof it. It cannot be done.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
I didn't read the 7100 or 5100 manuals until I had already owned the 6050. Silly me expected the manual to be accurate.

One thing for sure, you don't expect a receiver to deviate from the standards set forth when decoding and reproducing the 5.1 channel soundtrack, at least on a name brand HT receiver. Maybe if that receiver was made by Pyle brand, I would expect it not to follow surround sound standards but I did with Onkyo.

I also thought every input was compatible with HDR10+ because the flawed manual said so. It was a big disappointment when I found out all 6 inputs couldn't handle HDR10+ as I have a UHD Bluray player, a 4K Fire Stick, a 4K Roku, and a Chrome Cast with Google play. I didn't bother hooking up the Chromecast with Google play.

I also have cassette decks and DVD Recorders with only analog outputs but have them in storage as I wasn't using them. It's nice to have an option to throw it in the HT system though without needing composite to HDMI converters ( I have several).

I watch Amazon Prime and most of it's content is HDR10+. With the 4K televisions, I see a large improvement with good HDR. Not so much with HDR10 but HDR10+ and Dolby Vision significantly make the picture better.

For clarification, I use my receiver for watching movies, to decode surround formats correctly, and to amplify them OR for Stereo reproduction from either a digital or analog input.

I could care less about playing video games on my HT or streaming audio or video through the receiver. I use dedicated high quality, personal favorite streamers for that. I care about being future proof for at least a reasonable amount of time. 8K compatibility will help but other HDR format may also come and if the receiver can not pass them, its a mute point where direct connection to the television is required or an updated receiver is required. One of the reasons i decided long ago to stop buying expensive receivers. I can upgrade sooner and more frequent with higher quality inexpensive receivers than expensive higher mid-end receivers.

I do want a receiver that is more compatible with current technology so HDR10+ on all inputs makes that easier.
 
B

Bald Italian

Enthusiast
I didn't read the 7100 or 5100 manuals until I had already owned the 6050. Silly me expected the manual to be accurate.

One thing for sure, you don't expect a receiver to deviate from the standards set forth when decoding and reproducing the 5.1 channel soundtrack, at least on a name brand HT receiver. Maybe if that receiver was made by Pyle brand, I would expect it not to follow surround sound standards but I did with Onkyo.

I also thought every input was compatible with HDR10+ because the flawed manual said so. It was a big disappointment when I found out all 6 inputs couldn't handle HDR10+ as I have a UHD Bluray player, a 4K Fire Stick, a 4K Roku, and a Chrome Cast with Google play. I didn't bother hooking up the Chromecast with Google play.

I also have cassette decks and DVD Recorders with only analog outputs but have them in storage as I wasn't using them. It's nice to have an option to throw it in the HT system though without needing composite to HDMI converters ( I have several).

I watch Amazon Prime and most of it's content is HDR10+. With the 4K televisions, I see a large improvement with good HDR. Not so much with HDR10 but HDR10+ and Dolby Vision significantly make the picture better.

For clarification, I use my receiver for watching movies, to decode surround formats correctly, and to amplify them OR for Stereo reproduction from either a digital or analog input.

I could care less about playing video games on my HT or streaming audio or video through the receiver. I use dedicated high quality, personal favorite streamers for that. I care about being future proof for at least a reasonable amount of time. 8K compatibility will help but other HDR format may also come and if the receiver can not pass them, its a mute point where direct connection to the television is required or an updated receiver is required. One of the reasons i decided long ago to stop buying expensive receivers. I can upgrade sooner and more frequent with higher quality inexpensive receivers than expensive higher mid-end receivers.

I do want a receiver that is more compatible with current technology so HDR10+ on all inputs makes that easier.
Keep in mind. It's a $500 receiver. In my case, $399.99. I'm just fine with it.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
The product sheet fine print, which I posted up earlier, has the correct HDR10+ support information and should have been studied. They put them out for a reason. Not sure why three different streamers are necessary but one won’t need an HDR10+ port for the Sony UBP-X700. It doesn’t support HDR10+.

8K support at the moment only really matters for 4K HDR @120Hz gaming. It’s the gaming industry pushing increased performance and picture quality from TVs and AVRs. Hollywood is still serving up s#%t movies at 24fps and never has set a standard for aspect ratios and many watch movies using only about two thirds of their new TV’s screen.

Spare us any bulls#%t about “quality streaming” and then go on about connecting a a cassette deck and DVD recorder with analog cables. If you want quality video presentations, spend some real money on a quality TV. Your current TV is the weakest link in your system’s chain. I hope the Denon works out for you. If not, we’re sure to read about how it’s all Denons fault.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I feel I was a bit harsh. Actually, I was a d#%k. My apologies. Enjoy your new receiver.
 
M

Mike Up

Audioholic
I feel I was a bit harsh. Actually, I was a d#%k. My apologies. Enjoy your new receiver.
That TV would be one of the strongest links in most homes. The TV I have was tested by rtings.com to have better performance than most TVs costing twice what my Hisense was. In fact I bought it because it had better brightness levels in standard and HDR content that many OLED tvs. I tried Samsung garbage and LG garbage and all were miserable fails.

The only TV brands I would had considered were Sony and TCL but they didnt offer the bang for buck like the Hisense did. The only thing the Hisense lacks on is for gaming, which I have no interest and eARC which didnt matter as it was only needed for an older receiver, which mine was only ARC, not eARC.

I dont listen to cassettes but, I do have some music on Metal and Chrome tapes that I dont have in my collection of LPs, CDs, DVD-As, or SACDs.

Also DVD recorders usually dont have HDMI (one of mine does though) but if you want an easily recordable media, then VHS is your only other choice unless you want to setup ridiculous computer setups with video inputs and flaky software.

I havent received my Denon yet but if its flawed, I'll call it out on that

I did buy the 6050 expecting high end performance of a $800 or $900 receiver as the TX-NR6100 or VSX-LX105 that its cloned from.
 
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B

Bald Italian

Enthusiast
I did buy the 6050 expecting high end performance of a $800 or $900 receiver as the TX-NR6100 or VSX-LX105 that its cloned from.
I wasn't expecting high end performance from the 6050 and was pleasantly surprised that it was.
Again, I'm talking about audio and video performance via HDMI. My Sony A80CJ does all of the upscaling, so I don't really care what the 6050 can or can't do in that department.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
While the Costco version of the Yamaha RX-V6A, the Yamaha TSR-700, is an exact clone of the RX-V6A, Onkyo tweaked the TX-NR6100 just a bit to get the TX-NR6050. Save for the surround channel behavior regarding dolby 5.1 signals in a 7.1 configuration without up mixing applied, was there really an issue? Any other problems experienced with it may have been defects in the unit itself. Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but you mentioned dolby behavior not being addressed in the manual until corrections were made but that is just not the case. While it is mentioned on page 139 of the revised manual, it is written on page 135 of the previous manual. It is what it is and, for some, it is a deal breaker. More concerning to me after trying the Dolby Surround up mixer on three different brand receivers is the dialogue bleed issue with many tracks. It is a non issue with the DTS up mixer.

Consider an OLED on your next go around. The concerns over brightness are as overblown as Samsung LED TV images. The perfect blacks in a dark room, screen uniformity and the image quality at any angle cannot be matched by any backlit TV. I nearly ended up with a Sony A80CJ but decided on the LG C1 for its gaming features. Some features were lost in the choice while others gained. I'd recommend the A80J, or Costco’s A80CJ to anybody who can still get their hands on one as firmware updates have improved its feature set concerning gaming for the most part. While the processing of audio will differ from one brand to another regarding Dolby, licensing deals and all, the "sound" will have everything to do with speakers and the best audio processing will not be able to overcome any speaker shortcomings. So it goes with video and the best disc players and streamers cannot overcome the shortcomings of some TVs.

Now, concerning analog video and the Denon S960H, analog video input conversion to HDMI output is not supported. Any analog video inputs will have to be output using the corresponding composite and component output ports and the component input does not support 480p but only 480i. One will need the corresponding composite and component inputs on their TV if equipped when using analog video devices through the Denon S960H or use a converter between analog devices and the receiver for HDMI conversion.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Warlord
I have admittedly only followed this thread loosely, so I probably missed a couple things of relevance. But one thing is still stuck in my craw. WHY does the AVR default to sending surround content to the rears? What a dumm Fukk move… I like DSU generally so it’s ok, but I would be pissed to find out that I spent good money on an AVR only to find out it’s a clusterfukk. Makes me think the brain donors who thought of that have head gear like this…

Would be fun to try these actually!
 
Teetertotter?

Teetertotter?

Senior Audioholic
lol, Everyone has their own needs to fit their application. Me, I like DENON for numerous years. :cool:
 
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