Home theater receiver recommendations. (I am kind of a noob)

[DannoOMG]

So I really enjoy Surround Sound in movies and have always had the itch to get some higher end speakers. I listened to some of the prestige series at a store and really enjoyed what I had heard so I bought a small 5 speaker set up. Got 15% off on some of them during a sale.

The receiver I have now is less than desirable at "90 Watts" per channel and I knew that before buying the speakers. They definitely don't sound like they did in the show room. When I asked the sales rep there which receiver he would recommend to make these speakers perform well he said NAD. (that is what they were hooked up to when he displayed them for me)

However reading some old threads on this forum left me thinking NAD might not be the best choice. Something about quality issues.

I'd post links to the speakers I am using but my post count isn't high enough. I currently own the Paradigm Prestige series... 75F x 2, 45C x 1, 15B x 2

I will spoiler tag the specs here...

Spoiler

Prestige 15B Specifications

Design

2-driver, 2 way bookshelf / stand mounted

Crossover

2nd order electro-acoustic at 2.0kHz

Frequency Response On-Axis

±2dB from 57 Hz - 20 kHz

Frequency Response 30° Off-Axis

±2dB from 57 Hz - 17 kHz

High Frequency Driver

1" (25mm) X-PAL™ dome, ferro-fluid damped / cooled, Perforated Phase-Aligning (PPA™) Tweeter Lens, Finite Element Analysis (FEA) optimized pole piece assembly

Mid/Bass Frequency Driver

5.5" (140mm) X-PAL™ driver, overmolded Active Ridge Technology (ART™) surround, SHOCK-MOUNT™ Isolation Mounting System, 1.5" high-temp voice coil

Low Frequency Extension

42 Hz (DIN)

Sensitivity Room / Anechoic

90 dB / 87 dB

Impedance

Compatible with 8 ohms

Suitable Amplifier Power Range

15 - 150 watts

Maximum Input Power

90 watts

Finishes

Gloss: Piano Black & Midnight Cherry. Satin: Walnut & Black Walnut

Weight

16 lbs. (7.3 kg)

Dimensions HxWxD
‡ Includes plinth, feet, grille and terminal cups.

12.375" × 7" × 10.875"
(31.5cm × 17.8cm × 27.5cm)

Prestige 45C Specifications

Design

4-driver, 3 way center channel

Crossover

2nd order electro-acoustic at 2.8 kHz (tweeter/mid), 2nd order @ 700 Hz

Frequency Response On-Axis

±2dB from 75 Hz - 20 kHz

Frequency Response 30° Off-Axis

±2dB from 75 Hz - 17 kHz

High Frequency Driver

1" (25mm) X-PAL™ dome, ferro-fluid damped / cooled, Perforated Phase-Aligning (PPA™) Tweeter Lens, Finite Element Analysis (FEA) optimized pole piece assembly

Midrange Frequency Driver

3.5" (89mm) X-PAL™ driver, SHOCK-MOUNT™ Isolation Mounting System

Mid/Bass Frequency Driver

Two 5.5" (140mm) X-PAL™ drivers, overmolded Active Ridge Technology (ART™) surrounds, SHOCK-MOUNT™ Isolation Mounting System, 1.5" high-temp voice coil

Low Frequency Extension

50 Hz (DIN)

Sensitivity Room / Anechoic

93 dB / 90 dB

Impedance

Compatible with 8 ohms

Suitable Amplifier Power Range

15 - 220 watts

Maximum Input Power

150 watts

Finishes

Gloss: Piano Black & Midnight Cherry. Satin: Walnut & Black Walnut

Weight

32 lbs. (14.5 kg)

Dimensions HxWxD
‡ Includes plinth, feet, grille and terminal cups.

7.75" × 18.375" × 12.125"
(19.7cm × 46.7cm × 30.7cm)

Prestige 75F Specifications

Design

4-driver, 2-1/2 way floorstanding

Crossover

2nd order electro-acoustic at 2.0kHz (tweeter/mid); 2nd order @500Hz (mid/bass)

Frequency Response On-Axis

±2dB from 44 Hz - 20 kHz

Frequency Response 30° Off-Axis

±2dB from 44 Hz - 17 kHz

High Frequency Driver

1" (25mm) X-PAL™ dome, ferro-fluid damped / cooled, Perforated Phase-Aligning (PPA™) Tweeter Lens, Finite Element Analysis (FEA) optimized pole piece assembly

Mid/Bass Frequency Driver

5.5" (140mm) X-PAL™ driver, overmolded Active Ridge Technology (ART™) surround, SHOCK-MOUNT™ Isolation Mounting System, 1.5" high-temp voice coil

Low Frequency Driver

Two 5.5" (140mm) X-PAL™ driver, overmolded Active Ridge Technology (ART™) surround, SHOCK-MOUNT™ Isolation Mounting System, 1.5" high-temp voice coil

Low Frequency Extension

34 Hz (DIN)

Sensitivity Room / Anechoic

92 dB / 89 dB

Impedance

Compatible with 8 ohms

Suitable Amplifier Power Range

15 - 220 watts

Maximum Input Power

170 watts

Finishes

Gloss: Piano Black & Midnight Cherry. Satin: Walnut & Black Walnut

Weight

47 lbs. (21.3 kg)

Dimensions HxWxD
‡ Includes plinth, feet, grille and terminal cups.

37.375" × 11" × 12"
(94.9cm × 27.9cm × 30.6cm)

I really want them to sound like they did in that show room (or better) and I'll think about spitting out maybe 2k for a receiver and or rec/amp. Whether or not you like the speakers (I expect some people will hate my speaker choice), if you were stuck with them what would you use to drive them? Simple 5.1 setup, the viewing area will be approximately 12 x 14 ish.

Many thanks. First post. Promise I'm not a rep for Paradigm.

- Dan

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

before shopping for new avr (which you might not even remotely need) you should answer read these articles carefully and few important questions:
a) what is your current avr model
b) how big is your space (not just viewing - total open space)
c) do you currently have a sub (if not you probably will need one soon - also it shouldn't be from Paradigm unless your money grows on trees..)
d) what type of content you like to listen to - jazz/soft etc or loud action/scifi movies and loud rock/metal/trance etc... ?
e) and finally how loud do you like it to play? - this should help:

 

[DannoOMG]

a) My current receiver is a Yamaha RX-V565.
b) my total space that the home theater will be going in is going to be tough to describe. It's "L" shaped so I'll just describe the 2 longest parts which are 19'7" x 21'8"
c) I do currently have a sub I got myself for Christmas last year and I would like to try it in an open space before thinking about getting a new one. I do love it, it is a Klipsch SW-350 8-Inch 350 Watt Subwoofer (I got it for $180 on amazon).
d) I tend to watch sci-fi movies with a lot of loud scenes (Akira, Godzilla'14, District 9 etc) Occasionally I listen to nine inch nails.
c) I guess "air port" would be how loud I'd like to achieve but the speakers are only rated for 92-93 dB so I guess that is worthless unless that dB rating on the speakers isn't related to what you posted.

Thanks for replying and I will look at what you posted.

And yes, I have no intention of buying a Paradigm Prestige/Studio sub. I don't feel like spending 3-4k on a sub that is the size of a small freezer. This Klipsch one is so nice I'd like to give it a shot in the room I will be putting this all in...

 

[PENG]

c) I guess "air port" would be how loud I'd like to achieve but the speakers are only rated for 92-93 dB so I guess that is worthless unless that dB rating on the speakers isn't related to what you posted.

The 92 dB in room rating are most likely for 1 watt at 1 meter. Most manufacturers rate their speaker's sensitivity in X dB/1W or X dB/2.83V at 1 meter.

What's the ceiling height of your room?

 

[DannoOMG]

The drop ceiling once in place should drop it to around 8 feet.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Several assumptions here, but given your front speakers efficiency of 89db, 90dWpc (rated at 1k is not clean power, closer to peak - clean power is probably lower number), 10ft distance from speakers and front speakers placement near corners (of two walls) - the result is somewhere around 107-109.6dB (2-3 speakers) SPL maximum which I personally consider very loud.
Keep in mind dB SPL is NOT linear. The perceived level is doubled approx every 6db
If you double the amp power to 180Wpc you would get only 3db

Now - as for your sub - this is where you need to spend the money.
Klipsch SW-350 is neat little sub for small rooms, but in my estimation your room volume is about 3000cuft which makes it between medium to large on size and you need a sub capable of filling this room.

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/subwoofer-room-size

Also read system setup articles I linked to before.

 

[DannoOMG]

This place is very helpful even though some of this stuff is over my head (BoradSysAdmin your first paragraph of your last post kind of bounced off my forehead a little). Construction probably won't start in the spring so I have plenty of time to think about it.

I'd post the drawing of my basement but I'm need to post 6 more times and I don't want to fill this forum with worthless crap posting just to get it.. It is unfortunately not square and is a giant L shape. So I will definitely have some noise escaping. It's either this or nothing though so I am stuck with it and have to make it work.

I'll think about a new sub when everything is finished. I never turn the sub up past 1/4 of the volume and it rocks pretty hard. If doesn't fill the room right then I'll have to get a new one.

 

[PENG]

The drop ceiling once in place should drop it to around 8 feet.

Based on the specs of your speakers I recommend a 3000 series Denon, anything in that series should have enough power for the F75 speakers. They have pre outs so you will have the flexibility to add an external amp if that becomes necessary for any reason.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

This place is very helpful even though some of this stuff is over my head (BoradSysAdmin your first paragraph of your last post kind of bounced off my forehead a little). Construction probably won't start in the spring so I have plenty of time to think about it.

I'll try to translate it to human: based on specs of your speaker, receiver and room size I'd say power is not the issue. Your current setup should allow pretty loud playback almost at airport levels, BUT that's absolutely full blast which not be as clear sounding as lower volume playback.
Double the amplifier power would only bring a minor improvement in loudness levels.

BUT

Based on the specs of your speakers I recommend a 3000 series Denon, anything in that series should have enough power for the F75 speakers. They have pre outs so you will have the flexibility to add an external amp if that becomes necessary for any reason.

As Peng said - Denon 3xxx series would have very nice auto room calibration and other noticeable features such as Dynamic EQ - which will noticeably improve your sound quality and more reserves just in case.

My suggestion couple of years old models such as Denon AVR-4311CI would do great job, while saving more budget for more important sub

 

[DannoOMG]

This place is tits. I've seen the videos the site puts out and the forum is even handier than that. Much appreciated.

*edits*

Is the Denon AVR-4311CI really 140 watts per channel or is it that slightly exaggerated? I mean it's a 9.2 and I will only be using 5.1 so I know I would be completely milking it.

I should easily be able to craigslist my Subwoofer since I still have the box and I only paid $180 for it and it is currently listed at $299. I'll ask for $180 =) As for what Subwoofer I should get... more choices than I can shake a stick at. Seismic 110 was on my mind because of it's compact size. Do I go for another larger Klipsch sub? Do I look into brands like Velodyne... Lots of homework to do.

 

[Bizarro_Stormy]

This place is tits.

You are udderly correct, my friend...

I suggest you milk Audioholics for it's worth...

and commit all it's accumulated knowledge to mammary...















8008ies...

 

[PENG]

Is the Denon AVR-4311CI really 140 watts per channel or is it that slightly exaggerated? I mean it's a 9.2 and I will only be using 5.1 so I know I would be completely milking it.

Can't find any bench test verification data for the 4311 but based on their specs it is reasonable to assume the amp section is very similar to that in the 4520. That means you can expect well over 140W X2 at 0.1% THD+N and about 120W X5.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/denon-avr-4520ci-av-receiver-test-bench#TdbeUlWBdVjZj2pw.97

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is the Denon AVR-4311CI really 140 watts per channel or is it that slightly exaggerated?

I've compared AVR specs vs measurements. I recall that many AVR from Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, Onkyo, HK, and Sony are actually pretty good at meeting the advertised spec.

This is especially true with the higher end models including the Denon 4311.

 

[DannoOMG]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0042KVX2S/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all

Hmmmm.... not sure about taking a risk on the one listed at $725? Worth the risk? lol %100 feedback... 1 rating.

so far this is the best price/risk...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-AVR-4311CI-9-2-Channel-Internet-Ready-Home-Theater-Receiver-Stereo-System/361269555661?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20150313114020&meid=df9730df426542a18145d80e1607b01f&pid=100338&rk=3&rkt=30&sd=301635508339#rwid

 

[PENG]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0042KVX2S/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all

Hmmmm.... not sure about taking a risk on the one listed at $725? Worth the risk? lol %100 feedback... 1 rating.

so far this is the best price/risk...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Denon-AVR-4311CI-9-2-Channel-Internet-Ready-Home-Theater-Receiver-Stereo-System/361269555661?_trksid=p2141725.c100338.m3726&_trkparms=aid=222007&algo=SIC.MBE&ao=1&asc=20150313114020&meid=df9730df426542a18145d80e1607b01f&pid=100338&rk=3&rkt=30&sd=301635508339#rwid

But it is used. I would get the X4100W for $750 from AC4L, new with 3 year warranty.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00MK3BZAE/ref=sr_1_1_olp?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1445718736&sr=1-1&keywords=denon+avr-x4100w&condition=new

 

[DannoOMG]

I actually went for the ebay one. (dont get mad) 60 day return policy if something is wrong, refurbished by manufacturer and i got some stupid 1 year of square trade in case something bites the dust. Maybe that wasn't the smartest move, but we will see. I'm excited to try it out.

 

[PENG]

I actually went for the ebay one. (dont get mad) 60 day return policy if something is wrong, refurbished by manufacturer and i got some stupid 1 year of square trade in case something bites the dust. Maybe that wasn't the smartest move, but we will see. I'm excited to try it out.

It's your money, you are the boss.. Please report back soon though about the trial results.

 

[DannoOMG]

Will do I have this thread bookmarked. Should arrive maybe early November. Going to get the manual in pdf form and try and read up on it. It does seem to have a lot on it.

 

[PENG]

Will do I have this thread bookmarked. Should arrive maybe early November. Going to get the manual in pdf form and try and read up on it. It does seem to have a lot on it.

Whether you care or not, it does have one unique feature. That is, it is the last Denon AVR model that can decode HDCD.

 

[DannoOMG]

Oh yeah... what do you guys think of the Audyssey Auto set up on this thing? My old yamaha receiver had something like it but it didn't work out too well.

I usually do things manually but maybe this one is better than Yamaha's?