Upgrading Subwoofers

[lovinthehd]

I do like it loud. It's why I have tinnitus now. That and shooting guns and playing drums for several years. I'm a lot more careful now, but I like to hit 90+ here and there for a song or two... I've pushed my avr to -5 and it started to sound a little distorted. Now, that was only briefly and I NEVER listen at that level. Besides, I don't think my Denon X1200W liked it very much.

I guess I'm hitting enough spl. I just imagine the speakers disappearing behind those subs. I'm looking at building what seems to me like a couple of monsters. I know I have a big room, but wow. These are gonna pound.

Just because they're bigger doesn't mean they will do that....unless that is the way you set it up because you're an extreme bassaholic or something They have more capacity but integrated well just means you'll have more extension and headroom more than they'll "overpower" anything. I get ya on the tinnitus, don't dial it up much any more compared to just a few years ago, the tinnitus regularly visits now.

 

[shadyJ]

What are yours?

I have two Hsu VTF-3 mk3s and two Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX subs for the theater, and two Hsu ULS-15 mk1s for the desktop system. That is enough to give me a nice flat response and more headroom than I need.

 

[Pogre]

Just because they're bigger doesn't mean they will do that....unless that is the way you set it up because you're an extreme bassaholic or something They have more capacity but integrated well just means you'll have more extension and headroom more than they'll "overpower" anything. I get ya on the tinnitus, don't dial it up much any more compared to just a few years ago, the tinnitus regularly visits now.

I trust you guys. This is all new to me. I've been around these forums long enough to know you know what you're talking about. I'm gonna save up a little before I dive in.

The flat packs look pretty simple, really. The whole thing looks fairly simple if you have some basic wood working knowledge. It's already cut with bracing and slots together. I can drill some holes and have a power driver perfect for the job. So that part is no problem for me. I just need to make sure I get all the electronics and technical crap right. Shady mentioned stuffing too. I'm assuming some pillow stuffing would work? I was planning to just use the 14 gauge speaker cable I already have. I have any rca cables I might need. I do think I'm gonna want some sort of dsp too. I'll probably go with the iNuke option, but like the quieter Crown with a mini. It's a lot to absorb when you know nothing.

 

[lovinthehd]

I trust you guys. This is all new to me. I've been around these forums long enough to know you know what you're talking about. I'm gonna save up a little before I dive in.

The flat packs look pretty simple, really. The whole thing looks fairly simple if you have some basic wood working knowledge. It's already cut with bracing and slots together. I can drill some holes and have a power driver perfect for the job. So that part is no problem for me. I just need to make sure I get all the electronics and technical crap right. Shady mentioned stuffing too. I'm assuming some pillow stuffing would work? I was planning to just use the 14 gauge speaker cable I already have. I have any rca cables I might need. I do think I'm gonna want some sort of dsp too. I'll probably go with the iNuke option, but like the quieter Crown with a mini. It's a lot to absorb when you know nothing.

Well, it is an internet forum and we all have stayed at Holiday Inn Express motels

Flat pack is pretty cool. I got into making my own subs as I thought hey a simple box, how hard could that be to make? LOL, a lot harder than it looks. I have other wood working I want to do and thought this would be a fairly simple start, and I enjoy the learning stuff as I've never really worked with wood before this.

Review this article on stuffing effects/types http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=79

I used old pillows on a few subs and then bought some of this stuff

14g wire is fine for the internals, for the short distance you can easily use smaller gauge, too but why bother?

I use speakon connectors myself, fit on the amp and the terminal is simple altho you may need a special bit for your drill or a holesaw.

The iNuke dsp version of the amp is very good, won't need further.

 

[Pogre]

I just broke the news to the wife... lol.

She was actually not as against it as I thought. I'm not saying she's for it. I got the hairy eyeball, but I talked her into it grudgingly. I have a small bonus check coming up. Depending on how much it is I might buy my first flat pack within the next few days or possibly a week or 2. I'm starting to feel like this is actually going to materialize. I'll be bumping the bejeezus out of this thread when the time draws closer.

 

[MrBoat]

I just broke the news to the wife... lol.

She was actually not as against it as I thought. I'm not saying she's for it. I got the hairy eyeball, but I talked her into it grudgingly. I have a small bonus check coming up. Depending on how much it is I might buy my first flat pack within the next few days or possibly a week or 2. I'm starting to feel like this is actually going to materialize. I'll be bumping the bejeezus out of this thread when the time draws closer.

She's for it. She just can't seem overly enthusiastic. Women dig guys who can build stuff.

 

[Pogre]

Well, it is an internet forum and we all have stayed at Holiday Inn Express motels

Lol.

Review this article on stuffing effects/types http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=content&id=79

I use speakon connectors myself, fit on the amp and the terminal is simple altho you may need a special bit for your drill or a holesaw.

The iNuke dsp version of the amp is very good, won't need further.

I'll check out the article and bone up on stuffing, and why not go with speakon connectors? I might as well. I'm pricing iNuke amps and found this. Should do the trick for 15's, right?

Shady, you suggested even going with a pair of 18's and a bigger amp. I'm definitely a fan of bigger and more power for sure, but again, I'm worried about integrating them with my speakers. They're good down to about 50 hz, but my crossover is set at 80 right now and that's where I like it.

*Edit: I just noticed the one I linked is 3000 watts bridged at 4 ohms. Shady's suggestion would run a lot cooler and handle those speakers a lot easier, huh?

 

[lovinthehd]

Might want to figure out for sure which driver and how you plan to wire before picking up an amp. The 3000dsp is pretty popular for diy builds, tho. Try this article ....

 

[Pogre]

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get the UM15. I'm on vacation for 2 weeks because work is driving me insane, so I'm inclined to maybe get the ball rolling on the first one here fairly soon since I'll have ample time on my hands. I'm getting more and more comfortable with the idea the more reading I do.

I just wanna make sure I get all the correct hardware, get the electronics right and the dsp configured correctly. If the iNuke 3000 is good for the UM15's it'll save me a few bucks. Nobody has mentioned it yet, but I'm waiting for someone to tell me I need to get a mic and an eq program so I can set up the dsp correctly...

 

[Pogre]

Try this article ....

I read it. I'm already somewhat familiar with how to wire in parallel, series and bridged to play with impedances. The iNuke looks like it would be plenty if I bridge the speakers, but... oh, what's the UM15 rated at? Is it a 4 ohm or dual voice coil speaker?

*Edit: Is this the same speaker in the bundle? Guess I should scroll down some more. That definitely changes things, but looks like the iNuke 3000dsp should do it with no problem. Looks like I'd want to series the voice coils on both speakers for 4 ohms per channel?

 

[Pogre]

Alright I'm confused already. The iNuke specifies 3000 watts total at 4 ohms bridged. So... I'd want to series the voice coils, then series the 2 speakers and bridge them for 4 ohms? Is that correct?

 

[lovinthehd]

Both the UM15 and 18 are 2ohm dual voice coil (dvc) drivers; the 15 is rated for 800W continuous, the 18 for 1000. On my 2 ohm dvc drivers I wired them as 4 ohm and run two subs per amp, one per channel....never really thought about wiring two subs together as I want to be able to adjust each separately and I don't particularly need max power either so don't bridge my amps. Some buy the 6000dsp model for $100 more (not bridgeable btw) for more power for each channel....

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna get the UM15. I'm on vacation for 2 weeks because work is driving me insane, so I'm inclined to maybe get the ball rolling on the first one here fairly soon since I'll have ample time on my hands. I'm getting more and more comfortable with the idea the more reading I do.

I just wanna make sure I get all the correct hardware, get the electronics right and the dsp configured correctly. If the iNuke 3000 is good for the UM15's it'll save me a few bucks. Nobody has mentioned it yet, but I'm waiting for someone to tell me I need to get a mic and an eq program so I can set up the dsp correctly...

What? You don't have a mic?! Dayton UMM-6 or miniDSP Umik-1 would be good, REW is free.

 

[MrBoat]

I wired the UM 12, which is also DVC to 4 ohms. I am using the inuke 3000dsp amp. I intended to use duals initially but that can wait since I have plenty of bass to spare as it is. The inuke is nice. Kind of out of place with it's silver color and space age sneakers kind of look to it but I really dig the usb/pc software control and I have it limited to 500w. All of that, the filters etc can be controlled from a pc/laptop. Fan noise. . . .eh. I don't even notice it especially when playing continuous music.

What I really like about the inuke, especially when using the speakon connectors is it's portability. I put it away in it's box when not in use, just to keep the dust off of it. It's really no more difficult than breaking out a portable kit of cd's. I know that's not in style to not more permanently mount amps but for now, that's how I am using it. It weighs like 8lbs.

 

[Pogre]

Behringer's site claims 900 wpc into 4 ohms. Post 11 measured 620 wpc into 4 ohms. Do you think the 300 will drive the UM15's well enough? Big room and like it loud. I want to do this right the first time. If I don't have to spend another 100 bucks great, but if it's strongly recommended I'll go for the bigger amp.

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, if you want to push it to its limits and get max power to the driver (and leave some on the table for the eq'g up the bottom end of a sealed sub as well) then the more powerful amp may be the ticket....and you gotta as usual watch amp ratings as to what the spec is, particularly with Behringer. You might look for notnyt's amp testing thread over on avsforum, think he benched the 3000dsp amp as well and probably has more info that the thread you posted....

 

[Pogre]

I can't imagine pushing it to it's limits, but I dont want to under power it either. Like I said I'll creep up into 90db or a little more here and there, but not for sustained periods. 75 - 85db is probably my normal range.

 

[lovinthehd]

Then maybe the 3000 is sufficient...check the sensitivity rating.

 

[Pogre]

Who am I kidding? I'm just gonna shoot for the 6000. Then I won't be wondering or underwhelmed. Plus it leaves room, like you said for eq'ing up the bottom end.

Okay, I've settled it in my head. I'm going with a pair UM15 flat packs and a Behringer iNuke 6000DSP. I'm gonna check all my finances and see how soon I can order the first one. I figure I'll go at it one at a time and get the amp when I'm all done, so there's plenty of time for that.

What all else am I gonna need for my parts list to get the first sub going besides the flat pack? I'd like to get one together and start pricing everything out right down to connectors, polyfil, cabling... the whole nine yards, bearing in mind I'm going to build 2 of them so 2x deals would be great.

I have plenty of rca cables, some 14 gauge speaker cable, a nice little Makita rechargeable power drill and access to more bits and wood tools via Neighbor Bob. What kind of adhesive do you use HD? I'm not even going to attempt it without clamps. I can borrow some nice big ones from Bob. You also mentioned something about a special bit for the speakon connector? How many clamps should I get?

 

[lovinthehd]

My shopping would include the Speakon terminals like I linked earlier for the sub, I use these crimp terminals on that terminal inside the sub (some prefer to solder); used this bit to install 'em on the last couple, but before that I used a 1" spade bit I had (and either way I make the hole airtight with a bit of museum putty).

Connectors for each end of the speaker wire, either this style or this one. I like these feet. I finished my last sub with duratex. I used t-nuts and these bolts on my baffles for the driver; not necessary and some have had bad experiences with t-nuts stripping, some just use some wood screws. I used Elmer's Carpenter's wood glue.

If you want a grill this fabric is what I use; Jo-Ann Fabric & Crafts for fabric and stuffing material is a thought, too. I buy magnets for the grills from K&J Magnetics (but Parts-Express has some, too), they have a wide variety, I kinda like their countersunk ones, learned larger is better, think I'd go with 1/2" dia next time (think I used both 1/4" and 3/8" dia so far). I had leftover plywood from my builds to build the frame with, tho.