Trolling 201: Advanced Flooshing

Rob Babcock

Rob Babcock

Moderator
The Aperion is a fine sub, but at it's price there's a lot of competition. I'd strongly recommend you check into Hsu & SVS if you're prepared to spend $500 or more on a sub.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
I will say this

upgrading your sub is more cost efficient then upgrading your speakers(IMHO). Currently I'm in this position, I've had my speakers for some time and I want to invest in a new center channel & floors as well. For me at this particular moment it's time consuming! The front soundstage must be carefully thought-out and listened too. Each speaker will sound different to each person, this we know!! However (IMO)the sub will not and therfore it won't need that much scrunity or effort to decide on make:)D hsu or svs;) ). Thus cost me far less and improve my H/T in the meantime. :)

Ps: Having said that I think the sub will be a bigger improvement in the short term but if money was no object ...:)
 
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Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
mulester7 said:
.....Sheep, I love two front-firing subs in the front soundstage, supporting the front soundstage, equally split apart from the middle close to being in the corners....I don't see that wave interaction from direct front-firing cone dispersement could cause the total effect to not be as flat at lower frequencies....are you saying which direction the ports are facing makes a difference?....my subs port to the left side, do front ports make a difference?....but I will say this....I heard a system one time that had down-firing subs in opposing corners, and honestly I seemed to hear slightly lower pitches from the rear one dissonantly going against the pitches of the front one when I faced the front, and vice-versa when I turned and faced the rear....kind of like when I stand out in front of the train I am on in a siding to watch a passing train go by, which is called a roll-by inpection that must be done from the ground by the conductor....the approaching train is blowing his horn for a crossing getting closer I am close to, and as his head-end goes by me, the horn pitch lowers.....
Look at my previous post. It shows measurements of 2 subs in opposing corners, and 2 subs flanking the mains.

There is a big suckout around 80Hz, which from what you've said before, is where a subwoofer needs to play, then the mains take over.

SheepStar
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
Sheep said:
Look at my previous post. It shows measurements of 2 subs in opposing corners, and 2 subs flanking the mains.

There is a big suckout around 80Hz, which from what you've said before, is where a subwoofer needs to play, then the mains take over.

SheepStar
.....Sheep, I think it makes a difference whether the two subs in the front soundstage are front-firing or down-firing....with front-firing, you're in the direct path of first pass oscillations from a directly radiating cone dispersement....then the room enters the picture....with down-firing, the room is in play from the very first movement of the cone....there's no telling how many bounces have occurred when it reaches your ears.....
 
Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
mulester7 said:
.....Sheep, I think it makes a difference whether the two subs in the front soundstage are front-firing or down-firing....with front-firing, you're in the direct path of first pass oscillations from a directly radiating cone dispersement....then the room enters the picture....with down-firing, the room is in play from the very first movement of the cone....there's no telling how many bounces have occurred when it reaches your ears.....
That is an interesting POV. I would like to see a SVS downfiring unit doubled, placed in a room like the above pictures, and measured, one downfiring configurations, the other with the base plates off, and front firing.

SheepStar
 
V

ventwood0

Banned
The STF-1 is 299.99 and it seems like it performs great for its price. What do you think of that along with 5 Infinity Primus 150's?

PS: just a side question, it seems like Primus 150's wernt that expensive to begin with. i am not entirely familiar with Infinitys and new to the Priumus 150's entirely. are they like KLH? i do not want to end up with a low end system again........ so just asking
 
Darth Mike

Darth Mike

Audioholic
ventwood0 said:
The STF-1 is 299.99 and it seems like it performs great for its price. What do you think of that along with 5 Infinity Primus 150's?

PS: just a side question, it seems like Primus 150's wernt that expensive to begin with. i am not entirely familiar with Infinitys and new to the Priumus 150's entirely. are they like KLH? i do not want to end up with a low end system again........ so just asking
I answer your question with another question; would expierienced members of this board recommend, let alone shamelessly plug, a crap brand similar to KLH to someone who wants a system for sound, not WAF, or popularity among friends? If we recommended B(l)ose, Sony, or Polk would you have second guessed?

Infinity has been with the big dogs for years, to prove that, my mains are Infinity Qe's of a '78 vintage. Were I likely to find another set for rears and then a center... I would buy them in a heartbeat. Now you may wonder if Infinity is true to the same standards today? I answer with a resounding YES, but as with any brand there are different levels of product for different markets. They are owned by Harman, another great brand who has been around for a good while.

To be so sure of a crap Polk HTiB, yet wonder about a speaker who shows it's claim to fame in writing (search) sure gets me wondering...;)
 
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Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
ventwood0 said:
The STF-1 is 299.99 and it seems like it performs great for its price. What do you think of that along with 5 Infinity Primus 150's?

PS: just a side question, it seems like Primus 150's wernt that expensive to begin with. i am not entirely familiar with Infinitys and new to the Priumus 150's entirely. are they like KLH? i do not want to end up with a low end system again........ so just asking
HOLY CRAP!

Members have already recommended this EXACT setup, and now you're asking how is it? Do you even read what people write?!

GOD I need a break!

SheepStar
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
Infinity has been with the big dogs for years, to prove that, my mains are Infinity Qe's of a '78 vintage. Were I likely to find another set for rears and then a center... I would buy them in a heartbeat. Now you may wonder if Infinity is true to the same standards today? I answer with a resounding YES, but as with any brand there are different levels of product for different markets. They are owned by Harman, another great brand who has been around for a good while.
The older Infinity brand name is light years from the new stuff. The newer Infinity entry level towers are basically cousins of the JBL offerings you see in Best Buy. WTF is up with these flat panel Cascade towers? Are they trying to win a worlds ugliest speaker contest?

Harman is lately being touted for putting out some real junk for receivers. I've never seen so many complaints about receivers in my life. Thank God they have good customer service. HK doens't put out any good speakers, and JBL isn't exactly up there with the big dogs. At least they can still claim fame installing speakers in movie theaters.
 
Buckeyefan 1

Buckeyefan 1

Audioholic Ninja
ventwood0 said:
The STF-1 is 299.99 and it seems like it performs great for its price. What do you think of that along with 5 Infinity Primus 150's?

PS: just a side question, it seems like Primus 150's wernt that expensive to begin with. i am not entirely familiar with Infinitys and new to the Priumus 150's entirely. are they like KLH? i do not want to end up with a low end system again........ so just asking
Have you considered this setup?

http://www.velodyne.com/velodyne/products/ob_product_detail.aspx?ID=DECO&sid=655o121m
 
Darth Mike

Darth Mike

Audioholic
^There it goes again ventwood: One bad comment to counteract a crapload of positive ones and now you're like a deer caught in the headlights, here's a little bit of reassurance. I used to work in the component audio section at Circus City and was encouraged to sell what was profitable. I was ultimatly let go due to my inability to rip people off. Most of my sales were to folks who were dead set on a "big name" like Bose or the likes and were ready to buy, but after me showing them a few things, and them hearing the difference between those little expensive cubes/sats of multiple brands, they usual decided to buy bigger, better sounding, cheaper, bookshelfs... Alot of the times, they were Primus series.

Buckeye: There is nothing wrong with the Primus 150, and that is the one in question, talking about a company in whole, yet never commenting on the product in question is going to confuse ventwood into thinking that what he's considering are crap.

Many companies who have been in the game as long as HK/Infinity/JBL are losing thier audiophile following. That's because from mid-fi brands, audiophiles expect too much. Alot of "audiophiles" are on a beer budget with champagne taste, and they sit around and bag on honest companies who make systems for the masses. Why would audiophiles and the like even care about mid-fi brands? Oh yeah, because thier overpriced high end stuff is never overrated (Hsu Ventriloquist), they have to pick on the mid-fi stuff. Back when these companies were in thier prime, look at what the mainstream was, with some of the 70's/80's contraptions I wouldn't wonder why they did so well in comparison to today.

Every company in the mid-fi market is going to have it's own shortcomings in certain product lines. One cannot expect a company to have items that cater to only one outcropping of the masses, even if those products were perfect.

Saying HK's cheap recievers are junk may be true in an audiophile sense, but the guy who wants a higher end name to impress his friends is very happy with it. HK has NEVER had a decent speaker that really was a hit, but they have been making awesome recievers since the damn stone age.

The entry level Infinity towers, are for entry level consumers, and compared to what most entry level consumers buy (cubes), they are great. Yeah they are alot like JBLs towers, but most folks are happy with thier stuff as well. A large portion of the public think even the entry level Infinity and JBL is too high end for thier budget.

Judging a company by your own visual tastes is nothing to help someone base a decision on, not everyone wants a bulky, WAF failing system, so the wallhanging cascade series at least would allow someone who may not be able to have ANY system, have one, and it be of better performance then cubes/sats.
 
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Jack Hammer

Jack Hammer

Audioholic Field Marshall
Darth Mike said:
^There it goes again ventwood: One bad comment to counteract a crapload of positive ones and now you're like a deer caught in the headlights, here's a little bit of reassurance. I used to work in the component audio section at Circus City and was encouraged to sell what was profitable. I was ultimatly let go due to my inability to rip people off. Most of my sales were to folks who were dead set on a "big name" like Bose or the likes and were ready to buy, but after me showing them a few things, and them hearing the difference between those little expensive cubes/sats of multiple brands, they usual decided to buy bigger, better sounding, cheaper, bookshelfs... Alot of the times, they were Primus series.

Buckeye: There is nothing wrong with the Primus 150, and that is the one in question, talking about a company in whole, yet never commenting on the product in question is going to confuse ventwood into thinking that what he's considering are crap.

Many companies who have been in the game as long as HK/Infinity/JBL are losing thier audiophile following. That's because from mid-fi brands, audiophiles expect too much. Alot of "audiophiles" are on a beer budget with champagne taste, and they sit around and bag on honest companies who make systems for the masses. Why would audiophiles and the like even care about mid-fi brands? Oh yeah, because thier overpriced high end stuff is never overrated (Hsu Ventriloquist), they have to pick on the mid-fi stuff. Back when these companies were in thier prime, look at what the mainstream was, with some of the 70's/80's contraptions I wouldn't wonder why they did so well in comparison to today.

Every company in the mid-fi market is going to have it's own shortcomings in certain product lines. One cannot expect a company to have items that cater to only one outcropping of the masses, even if those products were perfect.

Saying HK's cheap recievers are junk may be true in an audiophile sense, but the guy who wants a higher end name to impress his friends is very happy with it. HK has NEVER had a decent speaker that really was a hit, but they have been making awesome recievers since the damn stone age.

The entry level Infinity towers, are for entry level consumers, and compared to what most entry level consumers buy (cubes), they are great. Yeah they are alot like JBLs towers, but most folks are happy with thier stuff as well. A large portion of the public think even the entry level Infinity and JBL is too high end for thier budget.

Judging a company by your own visual tastes is nothing to help someone base a decision on, not everyone wants a bulky, WAF failing system, so the wallhanging cascade series at least would allow someone who may not be able to have ANY system, have one, and it be of better performance then cubes/sats.
You've got some excellent points in there. I think a lot of "audiophiles" in general seem to look down on the mid-fi equipment which in reality is often a starting point for many. Luckily, with very few exceptions, that hasn't been my experience here. Many members here often try to help people buy stuff that best fits their bugdet and point them in the right direction to get them started with good equipment. Part of that process is making sure they are aware of the potential limitations and/or the strengths of the products in their price range.

A lot of newcomers are unaware of those differences between products and think that they are all essentially the same, ie, a $400 major brand speaker is top of the line and is no different from a specialized reputable custom audio boutique brand. Or the only difference between a $800 AVR and a $5k one is the the number of connections and DSP modes. Sometimes helping educate people can unintentionally scare them a bit. Afterall, their searching for what they believe to be the best for them.
 
Tomorrow

Tomorrow

Audioholic Ninja
Darth Mike said:
^There it goes again ventwood: One bad comment to counteract a crapload of positive ones and now you're like a deer caught in the headlights, here's a little bit of reassurance. I used to work in the component audio section at Circus City and was encouraged to sell what was profitable. I was ultimatly let go due to my inability to rip people off. Most of my sales were to folks who were dead set on a "big name" like Bose or the likes and were ready to buy, but after me showing them a few things, and them hearing the difference between those little expensive cubes/sats of multiple brands, they usual decided to buy bigger, better sounding, cheaper, bookshelfs... Alot of the times, they were Primus series.

Buckeye: There is nothing wrong with the Primus 150, and that is the one in question, talking about a company in whole, yet never commenting on the product in question is going to confuse ventwood into thinking that what he's considering are crap.

Many companies who have been in the game as long as HK/Infinity/JBL are losing thier audiophile following. That's because from mid-fi brands, audiophiles expect too much. Alot of "audiophiles" are on a beer budget with champagne taste, and they sit around and bag on honest companies who make systems for the masses. Why would audiophiles and the like even care about mid-fi brands? Oh yeah, because thier overpriced high end stuff is never overrated (Hsu Ventriloquist), they have to pick on the mid-fi stuff. Back when these companies were in thier prime, look at what the mainstream was, with some of the 70's/80's contraptions I wouldn't wonder why they did so well in comparison to today.

Every company in the mid-fi market is going to have it's own shortcomings in certain product lines. One cannot expect a company to have items that cater to only one outcropping of the masses, even if those products were perfect.

Saying HK's cheap recievers are junk may be true in an audiophile sense, but the guy who wants a higher end name to impress his friends is very happy with it. HK has NEVER had a decent speaker that really was a hit, but they have been making awesome recievers since the damn stone age.

The entry level Infinity towers, are for entry level consumers, and compared to what most entry level consumers buy (cubes), they are great. Yeah they are alot like JBLs towers, but most folks are happy with thier stuff as well. A large portion of the public think even the entry level Infinity and JBL is too high end for thier budget.

Judging a company by your own visual tastes is nothing to help someone base a decision on, not everyone wants a bulky, WAF failing system, so the wallhanging cascade series at least would allow someone who may not be able to have ANY system, have one, and it be of better performance then cubes/sats.
Well said, Darth!
 
mulester7

mulester7

Audioholic Samurai
......I believe the issue between cubes/sats vs. bookshelves being discussed here is, "do you want an appreciable amount of low-mids/high-bass or not?"....
 
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Sheep

Sheep

Audioholic Warlord
mulester7 said:
......I believe the issue between cubes/sats vs. bookshelves being discussed here is, "do you want any low-mids/high-bass or not?"....
My thoughts exactly.

SheepStar
 
V

ventwood0

Banned
Sheep said:
My thoughts exactly.

SheepStar
Here it is, Energy Act6 vs the Infinity speaks (39.00 ones) or the Acustech ones. I dotn care what kind of speakers they are. Satilites certainly look better when placed next to my plasma, but tower speakers are fine to. Problem with the Infinity's is that I dont want to buy stands for them. And attaching a bookshelf speaker that is as large as teh Primus 150 is not going to be attactive.........
 

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