Thoughts and prayers for Paris, France.

[Tao1]

95% of our politicians wanted to go to war. What did you do, or how would you have stopped it?
My point is, some other group/country attacked the US first.
They didn't care about our women or children...why should we care about there's?
That's how our government works (I don't agree in 'how' we fought the war, or where) we elect them and they call the shots... so to speak.

They didn't care about our women or children...why should we care about there's? We should

For the sake of argument lets assume that some Iraqi citizens had a part to play:

Guilt by association is ILLEGAL in western society. There's that.

However we can go into a more profound discussion and look into leadership theory (which is based in human behaviour theory). Leadership theory is more than how to lead people. It tends to look at how people react to different interactions.

People tend to react in kind. If some one tells you off, usually you do the same. If there is tension between two people, and one goes down to a calmer state of mind and tries to ease the situation, the other will probably drop their guard and follow suit. Generally speaking, this is the concept that 'taking the moral high ground' is based. In short, the US should have lead by example.

Instead, the US went in with a similar mentality as those who perpetrated the 9/11 attacks. I believe this mentality can be summed up as: "truck those guys! They are animals and deserve to die". I am pretty sure that the rhetoric of the us military was fairly synonymous with the words that the terrorists used.

Anyway the point is that people tend to react in kind. The US reacted in kind to the 9/11 attacks (regardless of moral implications) and, of course, victims of the actions of the US are responding in kind again. The cycle will continue until someone takes the moral high ground.

 

[Chu Gai]

We can sit here and link articles to each other on:

• the formation of ISIS
• whether Obama is a muslim or not
• whether the US economy is better under a republican or democratic president
• If gun laws make us safer or not
  
• etc

But why don't we just save each other a whole lot of time and agree that both political parties don't really have any real answers and are mostly concerned with their own self interests over ours.

I see you now switched the topic to gun control. I won't go there. That argument is so overplayed and overdone. I know the logic that if everyone had guns none of this ever would have happened. The same can be said if we reversed the statement to if NOBODY had guns we'd all be safer and in reality the later would be the truth but it's never going to happen.

The real solution is to have Superman collect every gun and nuke and throw it into the sun. But then if aliens invade we will be virtually defenseless unless a few clever citizens pick up a board with a nail in it to fight them off. Let's hope for the best.

View attachment 17004

They're not aliens, Gene. They're undocumented explorers.

 

[crossedover]

They're not aliens, Gene. They're undocumented explorers.

Expoditionist (new safe space word), Explorers implies they dont know what there doing



corrected spelling 6x

 

[Chu Gai]

They could be tourists.

 

[Tao1]

Expedtionist (new safe space word), Explorers implies they dont know what there doing

lol

Even funnier after I remembered that Star Trek uses that label for Star Fleet. Your statement is very fittingly applied to the new films

 

[Alex2507]

The cycle will continue until someone takes the moral high ground.

... or until we kill every last f^%&ing one of them.

 

[Tao1]

... or until we kill every last f^%&ing one of them.

Definitely another phrase that I am sure the other side uses.

All I can do is give this warning: You make your own bed and will have to lay in it.

 

[crossedover]

Definitely another phrase that I am sure the other side uses.

All I can do is give this warning: You make your own bed and will have to lay in it.

Rick makes Alex's bed

 

[GO-NAD!]

Oh come on my friend.
The guys that claimed responsibility for all these these terrorist acts didn't claim responsibility signed as, "hangers on" ... they're a worldwide terrorist organization. They're extremely well funded and are not the 'JV team' and are not 'Contained' and are not caused by a video or global warming.
I'm not suggesting anything as to what should be done.....
Just wondering why we're riding the Denial Train...... first stop, Hyperbole.

As I understand it, the territory under control of ISIS has shrunk by about 25% since they reached their maximum expansion - that seems contained to me. Of course, it all depends on how you define "contained". But, outside the so-called caliphate, they have no territory under their control. Yes, they are a problem in Europe and it's going to take a higher degree of international cooperation and effort to prevent further attacks and round up the cretins. But, increasing the amount of ordnance being dropped, or invading, will do little or nothing to prevent terrorist attacks.

 

[Chu Gai]

FWIW, the hacker group, Anonymous, has stated that ISIS has plans for something happening on Sunday.

 

[shadyJ]

As I understand it, the territory under control of ISIS has shrunk by about 25% since they reached their maximum expansion - that seems contained to me. Of course, it all depends on how you define "contained". But, outside the so-called caliphate, they have no territory under their control. Yes, they are a problem in Europe and it's going to take a higher degree of international cooperation and effort to prevent further attacks and round up the cretins. But, increasing the amount of ordnance being dropped, or invading, will do little or nothing to prevent terrorist attacks.

Denying ISIS a base of operations should reduce attacks staged outside of their playground by disallowing them a safe haven, reducing support and logistics infrastructure, and demoralizing them as well.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Denying ISIS a base of operations should reduce attacks staged outside of their playground by disallowing them a safe haven, reducing support and logistics infrastructure, and demoralizing them as well.

Base of operations? As far as I know, the only Islamist terrorist incident in Europe so far that didn't involve European citizens was the recent Paris attack - and that was just one of the group. I don't think they're bringing weapons from Syria/Iraq. Financing can happen from anywhere. So, they really don't need that base of operations. Sure, losing their "caliphate" won't help their , but I'm under no illusion that they would just pack it in and call it a day.

 

[Chu Gai]

Definitely another phrase that I am sure the other side uses.

All I can do is give this warning: You make your own bed and will have to lay in it.

My Asian housekeeper made my bed and is now laying in it. Should I have made my own bed?

 

[Bizarro_Stormy]

My Asian YardKeeper is much cuter than your Asian HouseKeeper...

Prettier feet too...

 

[Rickster71]

.....loss of life of our troops (most important) and the strain on our economy.
The US already spends more on defense than the next 7 countries combined so clearly we aren't just sitting and doing nothing and our military is NOT weak under Obama or any President that we've had prior.

I agree with the first line.
The second part isn't really the whole point/problem........ we've spent/wasted trillion$ on military hardware...
Then what do we do?
We allow politicians with no military experience to demand the same Rules Of Engagement and fairness that would be used in a sporting event.
So we have an enemy that is willing to do Absolutely Anything to kill and win. While we, $pend and play fair like it's a baseball game.
Our politicians have one toe in the war, while the rest of their body is out and just wants to get re-elected.

 

[Rickster71]

Iraq was NOT responsible for 9/11. WE invaded the wrong country after 9/11. Let's just be clear on that.

I don't know that terrorists ever have just 'one' country.
Snopes says the Drums of War were being played long before most even know or want to understand:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

 

[gene]

I don't know that terrorists ever have just 'one' country.
Snopes says the Drums of War were being played long before most even know or want to understand:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

Except for the fact it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt by an independent 9/11 commission that al-Qaeda was NOT present in Iraq during 9/11 and there was NO connection with the Iraq government with the 9/11 attacks. Also it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that Iraq had NO WMD's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_and_al-Qaeda_link_allegations

Richard Clarke tried to bring all of this to Bush's attention prior to our invasion of Iraq and he was let go, oops I mean, he resigned shortly after. Mission accomplished.

 

[gene]

I agree with the first line.
The second part isn't really the whole point/problem........ we've spent/wasted trillion$ on military hardware...
Then what do we do?
We allow politicians with no military experience to demand the same Rules Of Engagement and fairness that would be used in a sporting event.
So we have an enemy that is willing to do Absolutely Anything to kill and win. While we, $pend and play fair like it's a baseball game.
Our politicians have one toe in the war, while the rest of their body is out and just wants to get re-elected.

That's the point. We are building hardware we don't need. The generals have already said we don't need more tanks but we keep building them b/c its good for business. I worked for one of the world's largest Gov't defense contractors designing secure audio communication systems for NAOC (a battle defense plan) and I can tell you that there was so much waste by these companies lobbying to build stuff nobody needed but it kept us all employed. President Eisenhower (a Republican!) warned of the Industrial Military Complex decades ago.

Not sure how careful we were in Iraq with the latest estimates showing 1/2 million Iraqi citizens died since the Invasion of 2003. War is never tidy and neat no matter how careful you try to be.

 

[crossedover]

Except for the fact it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt by an independent 9/11 commission that al-Qaeda was NOT present in Iraq during 9/11 and there was NO connection with the Iraq government with the 9/11 attacks. Also it has been proven beyond reasonable doubt that Iraq had NO WMD's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_and_al-Qaeda_link_allegations

Richard Clarke tried to bring all of this to Bush's attention prior to our invasion of Iraq and he was let go, oops I mean, he resigned shortly after. Mission accomplished.

Just like Assad, Hussein was killing his own people, regardless of why we went in as a compassionate country it was needed. The tired argument of no wmds or no "terrorist " isn't a call to complacency, we shouldn't have stopped after the first Gulf War. Albeit not popular, that's what we do. Our short history has proven us to be the deciding factor in conflict, hopefully for the better more times than not

 

[Chu Gai]

I saw the following written by someone in the comments section of an article.

Now for some perspective of sorts. My wife & I will be spending Thanksgiving at her father's house. He is 89 and Muslim - prays 5x daily, has done 2 Hajj's, WW2 vet (medic in the South Pacific), college, etc. I've lost count of how many foster children he's had but they appear, generally unannounced at holidays, Father's Day, birthdays, you name it. The children are all adults now. He keeps a Muslim house - no pork, alcohol, webbed feet food, and whatever else. He does tolerate dogs. None of his daughters are Muslim but he respects their choices although he struggles with the youngest who is gay. He's funded all their colleges and for his adopted son, recently bought him a car. He's fluent in Spanish and Arabic. IMO at least, I consider him fairly moderate. Maybe liberal.

I once asked him if he believed everything written in the Koran? When asked for an example I said well what about the part where it said when Mohammed was protected from his enemies by a spider who spun a web covering the opening? And then the cave being filled with angels? His reply was that one does not question what is written in the Koran. Maybe this Thanksgiving I'll ask him about some of the stuff down below and his perspective. We generally don't discuss religion or my lack thereof. It doesn't measure either of us. With that, here goes.


TRUTH ABOUT ISLAM

Sharing someone's post from another thread...
Let’s see if I understand this correctly...
-The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
-The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
-The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
-The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
-The U.S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
-The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
-The Bafi Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
-The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
-The Moscow Theater Attackers were Muslims
-The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
-The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
-The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
-The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
-The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
-The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Muslims
-The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
-The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
-The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
-The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
-The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
-The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
-The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
-The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
-The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
-The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims

Think of it:

Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
Confucians living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Baha'is = No Problem
Baha'is living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem

***WHEREAS...

Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
Muslims living with Christians = Problem
Muslims living with Jews = Problem
Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
Muslims living with Baha'is = Problem
Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM

***SO THIS LEADS TO...

They're not happy in Gaza
They're not happy in Egypt
They're not happy in Libya
They're not happy in Morocco
They're not happy in Iran
They're not happy in Iraq
They're not happy in Yemen
They're not happy in Afghanistan
They're not happy in Pakistan
They're not happy in Syria
They're not happy in Lebanon
They're not happy in Nigeria
They're not happy in Kenya
They're not happy in Sudan

***So, where are they happy?...

They're happy in Australia
They're happy in England
They're happy in Belgium
They're happy in France
They're happy in Italy
They're happy in Germany
They're happy in Sweden
They're happy in the USA & Canada
They're happy in Norway & India

They're happy in almost every country that is not Islamic!

And who do they blame? Not Islam... Not their leadership... Not themselves...
THEY BLAME THE COUNTRIES THEY ARE HAPPY IN!!

And they want to change the countries they're happy in, to be like the countries they came from where they were unhappy and finally they will get hammered !!!!

Islamic Jihad: AN ISLAMIC TERROR DIRECTIVE
ISIS: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Qaeda: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Taliban: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hamas: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Hezbollah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Boko Haram: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Nusra: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abu Sayyaf: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Al-Badr: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Muslim Brotherhood: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Lashkar-e-Taiba: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Palestine Liberation Front: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Ansaru: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Jemaah Islamiyah: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION
Abdullah Azzam Brigades: AN ISLAMIC TERROR ORGANIZATION AND A LOT MORE !!!!!!!
Islam Obummer:OPEN BORDER ORGANIZER

MUSLIM DEVILS DISCIPELS..
Think about this :
20 things that psychopath Muslims do :

1] Kill any one who insults Islam or Moham-mad. (Koran.33;57-61).
2) Kill all Muslims who leave Islam. (Koran.2;217/4;89/Bukhari.9;84-57).
3) Koran can not be doubted. (Koran.2;1).
4) Islam is the only acceptable religion. (Koran.3;85).
5) Muslims must fight (jihad) to non-Muslims, even if they don't want to. (Koran.2;216).
6) We the non-Muslims are pigs and apes. (Koran. 2;62-65/Koran.5;59-60/Koran.7;166).
7) We the non-Muslims cannot be friends with Muslims. (Koran.5;51).
We the non-Muslims sworn enemies of Muslims and Islam. (Koran.4;101).
9) We the non-Muslims can be raped as sex slave. (Koran.4;3 & 24/5;89/23;5/33;50/58;3/70;30).
10) We the non-Muslims the vilest of creatures deserving no mercy. (Koran.98;6).
11) Muslim must terrorized us (non-Muslims). (Koran.8;12 &59-60/ Bukhari.4;52;220).
12) Muslims must strike terror into non-Muslims hearts. (Koran.8;60).
13) Muslims must lie to us (non-Muslims) to strengthen and spread Islam. (Koran.3;28?16;106).
14) Muslims are allowed to behead us (non_Muslims) (Koran.47;4).
15) Muslims are guaranteed to go to heaven if they kill us (non-Muslims). (Koran.9;111).
16) Marrying and divorcing pre-pubescent children is OK. (Koran.65;4).
17) Wife beating is OK. (Koran.4;34).
18) Raping wives is OK. (Koran.2;223).
19) Proving rape requires 4 (four) male Muslim witnesses. (Koran.24;13).
20) Muslims are allowed to crucify and amputate us (non-Muslims). Koran.8;12/47;4).11