Thoughts and prayers for Paris, France.

M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Sorry, but with these people, no good deed goes unpunished.
 
avliner

avliner

Audioholic Chief
That's the tip of the iceberg, unfortunately...

IMO, it's just about time that UN coordinates a sheer atack down to these bloody bastards self-called Islamic State and get rid of them for good though! If otherwise, what else should we expect, other than terrorism and death??
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
It is very hard to have a charitable or Christian view of radical Islam. These people revel in the slaughter of anybody who does not share their "religious" beliefs. I have the utmost tolerance for the personal beliefs and practices of any religion as long as they have the same for mine. But this "religion" calls for my destruction. In my view, that is the point where a "religion" loses any right of tolerance, acceptance or deference. They assume the same status as any person, gang or country that states their intent to kill me, and proves they are serious by trying over and over.

They have shown us for hundreds of years that they will not negotiate. Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin knew it. (Ever wonder where "the shores of Tripoli" in the Marine Hymn came from?) It's like having a football team that only plays our third string. We don't play by the same rules.

And I don't think it will get better until we change our rules. God forbid we offend anybody, but we better start taking this seriously.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
It is very hard to have a charitable or Christian view of radical Islam. These people revel in the slaughter of anybody who does not share their "religious" beliefs. I have the utmost tolerance for the personal beliefs and practices of any religion as long as they have the same for mine. But this "religion" calls for my destruction. In my view, that is the point where a "religion" loses any right of tolerance, acceptance or deference. They assume the same status as any person, gang or country that states their intent to kill me, and proves they are serious by trying over and over.

They have shown us for hundreds of years that they will not negotiate. Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin knew it. (Ever wonder where "the shores of Tripoli" in the Marine Hymn came from?) It's like having a football team that only plays our third string. We don't play by the same rules.

And I don't think it will get better until we change our rules. God forbid we offend anybody, but we better start taking this seriously.
I agree and disagree at the same time. I completely agree when you describe how it's impossible to have a charitable view of radical Islam. How can anyone tolerate a religion that practices 'death to the infidel'? And I agree when you say 'we don't play by the same rules'. That much is clear.

I disagree on what we should do about it. The US experience, some 200 years ago, with the Barbary Pirates (as they were called) showed that they don't play by the standard Western rules. They attack when their opponents are weak and run when they are strong. They murder innocents or take hostages and expect ransom payments. We think that's cowardly, but their goal is only to live and fight another day. Westerners mistakenly hope that the Arab world wants to create democratic republics just like we did.

The US early efforts to confront and punish the murders and thieves in North Africa didn't succeed, despite the implied myth of the Marine Corp Hymn. The rest of the European nations at the time had worked out that bribery worked much better. The French changed their policy in the Mediterranean, only when they decided to permanently occupy North Africa so they could oppose British domination of the Med, and made Algeria and Tunisia colonial possessions. After more than 100 years, that ultimately failed.

The British relearned that same lesson, slowly and painfully, with their nearly 100-year long experience in Afghanistan during the entire 19th century. They occupied Afghanistan to prevent Imperial Russia from expanding south and threatening their colony in India. Their Afghan experience was a bloody failure. Instead of direct military force, they later used puppet governments and bribery, it succeeded. (For a good account of that history, look for a book titled 'The Great Game' by Peter Hopkirk.)

I'm not sure we have learned that yet. Yes, we must keep their terrorism out of our home countries. But we should not ever believe that they long to become Westerners just like us. And we should not allow our reawakened Cold War fears of Russia to force us into military quagmires in the Middle East. If Russia is foolish enough to do that, let them. I wonder what they learned from their own 10-year disaster in Afghanistan during the 1980s. Most of all, we should be very careful who we arm to fight in the Middle East.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Well, what are the Islamic states doing about it?
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Just a friendly reminder, folks, more Americans have died on US soil as a result of domestic terrorism. So please show some respect and stop politicizing this!
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Just a friendly reminder, folks, more Americans have died on US soil as a result of domestic terrorism. So please show some respect and stop politicizing this!
Well, you'll have to provide some corroborating information in support of your position. Do all countries use precisely the same metics when defining terrorism? Is there even consistency within a country? Doesn't seem to be the case here. And then, don't you have to normalize the results to allow for some sort of quasi-comarisons?

We could look at a chart such as the following from the CDC,



but even that needs to be examined more closely. As far as politicizing what happened in Paris, to deny that there aren't any elements of that is not respect.
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
It's really beyond comprehension this.... and again it shows how vulnerable we are and how difficult it is to protect yourself against these things. We're much closer to this in Norway and it's being felt... Some people are getting scared, Sweden raised their anti terror level, The Norwegian Police's special service is increasing their resources now... This brings back memories from the July 22 terror attack in Norway.

We are being told that terrorists will not be able to change our countries, but it's what's happening... I reckon US has changed a lot due to 9.11, Norway changed due to July. 22, Netherlands probably changed permanently due to the Malaysia Airlines shootdown, I am sure there will be a permanent change in France because of this.

I don't know how I feel as there as so many emotions swirling around in my head....

I was going to the Opera today and realizing, some people are getting scared due to this thing that happened in Paris, this is just something that I can't accept that these kind of people create fear and insecurity in this way.

I have been a strong and consistent opponent of the gun laws of US, but now I start to think.... If something like this happened and I was there, would I want to have a gun to be able to protect the loved one, the answer is maybe a yes... I don't want to be a sitting duck..............

But most of all, great condolences and sympathy to the French nation, the French people and first and foremost to the ones that lost their loved ones.
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I'm really at a loss as to what we can do to address this problem. Whatever it might be, I think we will see more events like this. :eek:
 
haraldo

haraldo

Audioholic Spartan
I'm really at a loss as to what we can do to address this problem. Whatever it might be, I think we will see more events like this. :eek:
I'm afraid the only way to fully stop this is to make a society that is so controlled... that our freedom is lost... really really hard to fully prevent this
 
H

herbu

Audioholic Samurai
I disagree on what we should do about it.
Disagree with whom? I don't think I said what I think we should do about it. In fact, I don't know what we should do. My knee-jerk reaction is good ol Southern boy redneck. But the truth is, I don't know.

We could adopt the rules of radical Islam, and kill as many of them, their neighbors, their families, their friends, their sympathizers and anybody close to them as we can. But we're not like that, I couldn't do that, and I don't think it would have anything but a temporary effect.

On the other extreme, we could acquiesce, pay ransom and tribute, and hope that one day we can all get along. But I think the result of that would be even worse than the first option.

So I suppose the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I suspect that magic point may be a little closer to the first option than where we are now. Since their greatest weapon against us is fear, maybe that is what they respect. I would be OK if they stopped killing us out of fear. And at this point, I don't see anything else that works. Do you? I really don't think you're suggesting "bribery" as a viable option.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I think we might more seriously consider supporting the Kurds. Using antiquated and cobbled together weapons, they've been fairly successful in pushing ISIS around. Women fight as equals and command leadership positions. Christians and other religious groups seem to coexist just fine there.

The Iraqi army to my mind is largely corrupt and gutless. The arming and training of 'moderate' factions by the current administration to the tune of half a billion dollars has been as impotent as a eunuch.

Unfortunately, Erdogan of Turkey, a NATO ally, has a hardon for Assad and the Kurds. So I think we should find a way to arm and support the Kurds maybe covertly. That's a start, at least for me.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
It's really beyond comprehension this.... and again it shows how vulnerable we are and how difficult it is to protect yourself against these things. We're much closer to this in Norway and it's being felt... Some people are getting scared, Sweden raised their anti terror level, The Norwegian Police's special service is increasing their resources now... This brings back memories from the July 22 terror attack in Norway.

We are being told that terrorists will not be able to change our countries, but it's what's happening... I reckon US has changed a lot due to 9.11, Norway changed due to July. 22, Netherlands probably changed permanently due to the Malaysia Airlines shootdown, I am sure there will be a permanent change in France because of this.

I don't know how I feel as there as so many emotions swirling around in my head....

I was going to the Opera today and realizing, some people are getting scared due to this thing that happened in Paris, this is just something that I can't accept that these kind of people create fear and insecurity in this way.

I have been a strong and consistent opponent of the gun laws of US, but now I start to think.... If something like this happened and I was there, would I want to have a gun to be able to protect the loved one, the answer is maybe a yes... I don't want to be a sitting duck..............

But most of all, great condolences and sympathy to the French nation, the French people and first and foremost to the ones that lost their loved ones.
I read where the police in Norway, due to relaxed threat levels, will now be unarmed with their weapons once again in their vehicles. Is that now being rethought?
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Disagree with whom? I don't think I said what I think we should do about it. In fact, I don't know what we should do. My knee-jerk reaction is good ol Southern boy redneck. But the truth is, I don't know.

We could adopt the rules of radical Islam, and kill as many of them, their neighbors, their families, their friends, their sympathizers and anybody close to them as we can. But we're not like that, I couldn't do that, and I don't think it would have anything but a temporary effect.

On the other extreme, we could acquiesce, pay ransom and tribute, and hope that one day we can all get along. But I think the result of that would be even worse than the first option.

So I suppose the answer lies somewhere in the middle. I suspect that magic point may be a little closer to the first option than where we are now. Since their greatest weapon against us is fear, maybe that is what they respect. I would be OK if they stopped killing us out of fear. And at this point, I don't see anything else that works. Do you? I really don't think you're suggesting "bribery" as a viable option.
I think it is very had to kill an idea, their idea. Perhaps the root is the instigator of it, some of their mullas? And, of course the power hungry among them. What do you do with the brainwashed, gullible followers? How do you change their minds???
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I think it is very had to kill an idea, their idea. Perhaps the root is the instigator of it, some of their mullas? And, of course the power hungry among them. What do you do with the brainwashed, gullible followers? How do you change their minds???
I never though that religion as a whole would continue to play such a large role in people's lives. I had kind of thought that people would just grow out of it and look at some of these claims and beliefs to be, well, silly. But all I continue to see is belief often pitted violently against some other belief.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Let me tell you that radicalized elements of Islam wouldn't show them any mercy.

Here's Bill Maher, Ben Affleck, etc. going at the whole Islam thing.

 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
I think it is very had to kill an idea, their idea. Perhaps the root is the instigator of it, some of their mullas? And, of course the power hungry among them. What do you do with the brainwashed, gullible followers? How do you change their minds???
Well, since they prefer to attack innocent civilians while gathered peacefully, I think a few bombs dropped on Mecca during the Haji might get their attention.

willy wonka on islam.jpg
 
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