The never ending rabbit hole....What Avr would you recommend for my setup? Marantz, Denon, Sony, Anthem, Yamaha, Integra, Emotiva or??????

[lewi1032]

So, I'm looking to purchase a new AVR and I'm overwhelmed by the choices. I'm hoping for some advice to help guide my decision. I was previously using a Denon AVRX4700, which I sold to replace it with the new Marantz C50. However, after a month, I decided to return the C50 and consider the C40 instead. The Marantz was a significant upgrade from the Denon in terms of both looks and sound quality.

The Marantz delivered more detailed sound, superior Atmos, and better two-channel music listening, even seeming to provide more power to my 11.2 setup. I'm using a pair of monoblocks for my main JBL L200 speakers, so the two-channel power isn't an issue. Interestingly, I found Audyssey to sound much better in my setup than Dirac, even though I had the option to switch between the two.

My current setup includes 2 JBL L200's for the mains (powered by separate monoblocks), an Emotiva C2+ for the center channel, Emotiva Tzero+ for surround, Emotiva E2+ for rear surround, Emotiva A1 for front and rear Atmos, and 2 SVS PB3000 subs. The new receiver needs to support 11.2, factoring in my separate amps for the mains. I also have another set of mains, JBL L100's, that I'd like to integrate if possible, but it's not a deal-breaker. I have an LG 77" OLED, PS5, APPLE 4K TV, and Fire Cube TV all newest additions.

I loved the Marantz C50 and wouldn't hesitate to choose the C40 if it could support both the L100's and L200's. Currently, I'm considering the Marantz C40, Marantz SR8015, Anthem MRX 1140, Yamaha RX-A8A, Sony AZ7000ES, Integra DRX8.4, Emotiva basX MR1, and possibly the Denon AVR6700 (if someone can assure me it sounds better than the AVR4700 and on par with the c40/50). I'd like to have 4K 120Hz support, but I can do without it if the sound quality is substantially better on a model without it. If there is a model not listed let me know I am open to suggestions. Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

 

[lovinthehd]

My .02 is I think you're already imagining things somewhat based on expectations. I'd say what you have now is just as good as what you're going to get generally. I'd just stop and enjoy the music/show. I'm a JBL fan too, but I'd consider speakers/subs a much better way to make sq improvements/changes....if not your room.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If you’re in the camp who believes that amps/preamps/DAC don’t have a sound signature of their own, then it doesn’t matter which AVR you get unless you must have some kind of room correction like Dirac or Audyssey. If you have ever read The Audio Critic free online archives, then you are probably in this camp.

If you don’t believe in room correction either, then it comes down to convenience features, compatibility, reliability, customer support, warranty.

Most people will go for a Denon/Marantz, Yamaha, or Sony.

1. How important is room correction to you?
2. How important is warranty period to you?
3. How important is customer support?
4. How important is WiFi Network remote control and Network music streaming?

 

[lewi1032]

My .02 is I think you're already imagining things somewhat based on expectations. I'd say what you have now is just as good as what you're going to get generally. I'd just stop and enjoy the music/show. I'm a JBL fan too, but I'd consider speakers/subs a much better way to make sq improvements/changes....if not your room.

I would have said that as well but I have owned over 100 sets of speakers, close to that on receivers and amplifiers and stats can say one thing and when you listen it says another. On paper the Denon 4700 shouldn't sound different than the Marantz C50 and I can tell you anyone that can hear would agree it sounded way better on my setup. I have A/B tested many different setups and that's why I ask for advice and hoping to have someone that has real experience then someone that says the specs say this, the specs say that. I have had many people listen to my setup and are blown away even compared to a theater so I am happy with my speaker selection I am just trying to make a final decision on my avr replacement.

 

[lovinthehd]

I would have said that as well but I have owned over 100 sets of speakers, close to that on receivers and amplifiers and stats can say one thing and when you listen it says another. On paper the Denon 4700 shouldn't sound different than the Marantz C50 and I can tell you anyone that can hear would agree it sounded way better on my setup. I have A/B tested many different setups and that's why I ask for advice and hoping to have someone that has real experience then someone that says the specs say this, the specs say that. I have had many people listen to my setup and are blown away even compared to a theater so I am happy with my speaker selection I am just trying to make a final decision on my avr replacement.

Be interested in how you did an a/b with two setups. I have quite a few speakers and avrs myself (four multich systems going now). Just not my experience that the avrs make a lot of difference except for their dsp flavors compared to rooms/speakers. Electronics not much. Still sounds somewhat like audio nervosa to me, though Good luck in any case.

 

[lewi1032]

If you’re in the camp who believes that amps/preamps/DAC don’t have a sound signature of their own, then it doesn’t matter which AVR you get unless you must have some kind of room correction like Dirac or Audyssey. If you have ever read The Audio Critic free online archives, then you are probably in this camp.

If you don’t believe in room correction either, then it comes down to convenience features, compatibility, reliability, customer support, warranty.

Most people will go for a Denon/Marantz, Yamaha, or Sony.

1. How important is room correction to you?
2. How important is warranty period to you?
3. How important is customer support?
4. How important is WiFi Network remote control and Network music streaming?

I believe in my ears, and I know that amps, preamps, and dacs have a sound signature of their own regardless what anyone says. I have owned over 100 sets of speakers, probably close to that on amps and receivers. I have A/B tested many different combinations and no doubt they do have their own sound signature. I have some acoustic correction to my room now, i for sure believe in room correction like audyssey and dirac as it makes a huge difference once you get it dialed in but as i mentioned I didn't think the dirac was better on the little time i had to play with it before sending back the c50. Running audyssey vs not running it a half deaf person could tell the difference between the two. With that said
1.Very important
2.Warranty period is not that important after a couple of years
3.Not big on customer support as I have rarely needed it and I work on electronics for repairs, mostly audio as a hobby.
4.Wifi Network remote and network music streaming not so much as I have a EVERSOLO DMP-A6

 

[lewi1032]

Be interested in how you did an a/b with two setups. I have quite a few speakers and avrs myself (four multich systems going now). Just not my experience that the avrs make a lot of difference except for their dsp flavors compared to rooms/speakers. Electronics not much. Still sounds somewhat like audio nervosa to me, though Good luck in any case.

Because I have a speaker/source switch and I can run different sources to the same speakers, different speakers to the same sources, etc. I have a dedicated 2 channel listening room and i do this quite often before i make a change to my current setups but did the same thing with my Denon and Marantz before I sold my Denon. The fact that you think room correction (EX.Audyssey, Dirac, Sony, Yamaha, ETC) doesn't make a difference in sound on the same speakers has my mind blown and wondering how you can have multiple avr systems and not hear a difference. Sounds like you have some serious room treatment needed and I am sure you setup will amaze you even more than it does now. I don't believe in luck but thanks for the input bud!

 

[isolar8001]

Is it just me or are all new posters confrontational lately ?
Not to mention they mostly seem to be self professed experts.

 

[lovinthehd]

Because I have a speaker/source switch and I can run different sources to the same speakers, different speakers to the same sources, etc. I have a dedicated 2 channel listening room and i do this quite often before i make a change to my current setups but did the same thing with my Denon and Marantz before I sold my Denon. The fact that you think room correction (EX.Audyssey, Dirac, Sony, Yamaha, ETC) doesn't make a difference in sound on the same speakers has my mind blown and wondering how you can have multiple avr systems and not hear a difference. Sounds like you have some serious room treatment needed and I am sure you setup will amaze you even more than it does now. I don't believe in luck but thanks for the input bud!

You have what switch and what are its capabilities in terms of number of channels (and level matching, if any)? Can't test an avr on a 2ch rig particularly and comparing identical setups, particularly except for avr, is very hard to do.

I did say different flavors of dsp, req is the main form of dsp I use (rather than certain dsp sound modes). Are you maxing out XT32 with the MultEQ or MultEQ-X editor apps? It's pretty capable in any case. I use Audyssey in 3 of the four systems; the fourth is Audyssey equipped but is my workshop and for my various listening positions I've just found manual to be best (but its an older unit, so not even an editor app or internal storage of multiple setups).

ps sorry for so many edits, had to go get my laptop instead of using the pad....

 

[lewi1032]

Is it just me or are all new posters confrontational lately ?
Not to mention they mostly seem to be self professed experts.

Is this directed toward me?

 

[lewi1032]

You have what switch and what are its capabilities in terms of number of channels (and level matching, if any)? Can't test an avr on a 2ch rig particularly and comparing identical setups, particularly except for avr, is very hard to do.

I did say different flavors of dsp, req is the main form of dsp I use (rather than certain dsp sound modes). Are you maxing out XT32 with the MultEQ or MultEQ-X editor apps? It's pretty capable in any case. I use Audyssey in 3 of the four systems; the fourth is Audyssey equipped but is my workshop and for my various listening positions I've just found manual to be best (but its an older unit, so not even an editor app or internal storage of multiple setups).

ps sorry for so many edits, had to go get my laptop instead of using the pad....

As mentioned in my post I have a 2 channel listening room, I also said that I have a/b tested hundreds of combinations meaning that Amplifiers, Recievers, and Avrs have a direct impact of the sound in the same exact speakers. Yes testing an AVR is harder than a 2 channel setup but the concept is the same even in 2 channels. As far as the actual A/B testing of the avrs I ran the test as I wired the speakers to both of the avrs directly listening to one powering if off and listening to the other with the same source (Apple TV on an hdmi splitter). I am not here to get into a pissing match I was just looking for some input on avr’s. We for sure have a difference of opinion that an amplifier/reciever/AVR doesn’t have a significant difference in sound with the same speakers and it’s not “audio nervousa”. And I don’t mind the edits my friend

 

[mtrycrafts]

I believe in my ears,{/QUOTE]
That is unfortunate.
Actually, it is your brain that is messing with what you think you perceive.

and I know that amps, preamps, and dacs have a sound signature of their own regardless what anyone says.

That is your downfall in this hobby, you don't read and listen to what has been discovered in psychoacoustics and human biases, how easily one can be fooled.
How poorly your brain behaves and fools you.
No wonder you went through all those amps, etc.

..... I have A/B tested many different combinations and no doubt they do have their own sound signature. ....

And, how did you control for bias. How many trials with each pair per test? What was the statistical data? Perhaps you were just guessing.

Might be best just to continue stacking up those amps and speaker and be happy.

 

[lovinthehd]

As mentioned in my post I have a 2 channel listening room, I also said that I have a/b tested hundreds of combinations meaning that Amplifiers, Recievers, and Avrs have a direct impact of the sound in the same exact speakers. Yes testing an AVR is harder than a 2 channel setup but the concept is the same even in 2 channels. As far as the actual A/B testing of the avrs I ran the test as I wired the speakers to both of the avrs directly listening to one powering if off and listening to the other with the same source (Apple TV on an hdmi splitter). I am not here to get into a pissing match I was just looking for some input on avr’s. We for sure have a difference of opinion that an amplifier/reciever/AVR doesn’t have a significant difference in sound with the same speakers and it’s not “audio nervousa”. And I don’t mind the edits my friend

Just never my experience that amps/avrs/receivers/separates make all that big a difference (of course if competent and not used outside their limits). I've experimented in both 2ch and multich gear. Just not enough difference to be concerned with let alone constant shopping and changing. YMMV. Now, if you could demonstrate you can actually distinguish such differences in a proper test, that might be interesting. I'd rather just enjoy the content once I have set things up well.

As far as taking others' opinions of what has worked in their setups for avr, lots of variables left and most I doubt would relate to your own experience particularly.

 

[Kleinst]

I think the one we might like the most is the one we find the easiest to dial in and my recent experience shows there isn't a definitive rhyme or reason to when you hit gold on calibration. For some who are experts then you can measure and get perfection. But I recently found in one of my setups my Sony ES just hit it with the room where a Marantz I sold with Audyssey and the APP just wasn't working for me. I don't know why and with serious work I probably could have got them sounding exactly the same. But the Sony ran its setup and a few minutes later with a couple tweaks the center was never more clear compared to before.

That said, in my downstairs setup I have Denon that sounds amazing (same room correction the Marantz had).

So, within a given level of quality across brands (Sony, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, etc.) I think we could all hit on one and assume it's the better choice.

Curious, If the Marantz C50 sounded so good for you why did you return it?

 

[lovinthehd]

I think the one we might like the most is the one we find the easiest to dial in and my recent experience shows there isn't a definitive rhyme or reason to when you hit gold on calibration. For some who are experts then you can measure and get perfection. But I recently found in one of my setups my Sony ES just hit it with the room where a Marantz I sold with Audyssey and the APP just wasn't working for me. I don't know why and with serious work I probably could have got them sounding exactly the same. But the Sony ran its setup and a few minutes later with a couple tweaks the center was never more clear compared to before.

That said, in my downstairs setup I have Denon that sounds amazing (same room correction the Marantz had).

So, within a given level of quality across brands (Sony, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, etc.) I think we could all hit on one and assume it's the better choice.

Curious, If the Marantz C50 sounded so good for you why did you return it?

Curious, you try reversing the avrs between those two rooms? Sony req setup is likely simpler than Audyssey, tho.

 

[Kleinst]

Curious, you try reversing the avrs between those two rooms? Sony req setup is likely simpler than Audyssey, tho.

Well, the Denon i have running downstairs is sounding great so I'm not inclined to touch it.

But the upstairs is where the Marantz 6013 was. I couldn't get clarity on my center and I thought it was the speakers. But then I decided to try the Sony ES up there and sure enough, crystal clear. So I did swap out the Marantz and the Sony in that room. But I wouldn't want to put the 4700 upstairs becuase I don't want to take it out of where it's working.

One day, if I decide to go to a processor in that room (it's where we watch most everything together... Living room). Then I probably would move the 4700 upstairs and A/B it with the Sony or whatever I have up there at the time.

Sony was simple to run however as you mention. That doesn't mean it will always be better. It's less EQ than Audyssey of course. It's mainly just distance and levels to be honest. But it's fairly effective in it's simplicity

 

[lovinthehd]

Well, the Denon i have running downstairs is sounding great so I'm not inclined to touch it.

But the upstairs is where the Marantz 6013 was. I couldn't get clarity on my center and I thought it was the speakers. But then I decided to try the Sony ES up there and sure enough, crystal clear. So I did swap out the Marantz and the Sony in that room. But I wouldn't want to put the 4700 upstairs becuase I don't want to take it out of where it's working.

One day, if I decide to go to a processor in that room (it's where we watch most everything together... Living room). Then I probably would move the 4700 upstairs and A/B it with the Sony or whatever I have up there at the time.

Sony was simple to run however as you mention. That doesn't mean it will always be better. It's less EQ than Audyssey of course. It's mainly just distance and levels to be honest. But it's fairly effective in it's simplicity

I have used an old Sony without even their DCAC and just adjusting for delay/level, and it was fine. I've never had an issue with getting "clarity", not even sure what that means. I have ended up changing avrs around a fair bit even with same speakers/rooms and just haven't found pointed issues.

 

[lovinthehd]

Is it just me or are all new posters confrontational lately ?
Not to mention they mostly seem to be self professed experts.

We have had an influx of only my ears matters type of posters....and have seen this in other more objective-oriented groups/fora. It's kinda like the attack of the zombies ?

 

[lewi1032]

I think the one we might like the most is the one we find the easiest to dial in and my recent experience shows there isn't a definitive rhyme or reason to when you hit gold on calibration. For some who are experts then you can measure and get perfection. But I recently found in one of my setups my Sony ES just hit it with the room where a Marantz I sold with Audyssey and the APP just wasn't working for me. I don't know why and with serious work I probably could have got them sounding exactly the same. But the Sony ran its setup and a few minutes later with a couple tweaks the center was never more clear compared to before.

That said, in my downstairs setup I have Denon that sounds amazing (same room correction the Marantz had).

So, within a given level of quality across brands (Sony, Marantz, Denon, Yamaha, etc.) I think we could all hit on one and assume it's the better choice.

Curious, If the Marantz C50 sounded so good for you why did you return it?

The only reason I sent back the c50 was to replace it with the c40 but I started looking at others that I might be able to incorporate running my additional l100s that I cant with the c50/40.

 

[lewi1032]

We have had an influx of only my ears matters type of posters....and have seen this in other more objective-oriented groups/fora. It's kinda like the attack of the zombies ?

Yeah, people who make a decision based on the actual sound THEY hear AND THEY LIKE are horrible and should only go by what a manufacturer and spec sheet reads. If you're going to be a tool to people that don't have your views maybe you shouldn't reply to a post. I am sure I and the other guy you are being a tool to as well cant hear, hell don't even know why they make different receivers because they all sound the same just different companies but no noticeable difference in sound...