Denon AVR-1712 vs Yamaha RX-795 for 2-channel setup?

[crtaudioguy]

I'm trying to decide between these two receivers for a 2 channel setup. My speakers are the Pioneer Andrew Jones SP-BS22-LR (sensitivity 85dB, 6 ohms) and I will be using them as PC speakers via a digital optical cable from my PC to the receiver. On the PC, will be doing a combination of watching Youtube videos, movies, TV shows and occasionally gaming and listening to music. I'm deciding between these two because I can get them both for about $100. The Denon was barely used according to the owner and looks to be in like new condition and the Yamaha unit is new old stock. The Denon AVR-1712 is about 12 years newer (from around 2011 and comes with the remote and audyssey mic) and is 90W/channel (20Hz - 20kHz, .08 THD@8 ohms, S/N 100dB). The Yamaha RX-795 is 85W/channel (20Hz - 20kHz, .08THD@8 ohms, S/N 96dB) and comes with the remote. I know it's nice that the Denon is newer but if I primarily care about audio quality, would the Yamaha be the better choice? I'm wondering if the Yamaha receiver would have a higher quality amplifier?

 

[isolar8001]

I'm wondering if the Yamaha receiver would have a higher quality amplifier?

No....get the newer Denon.
Age does things to electronics....just like us.

 

[Mike Up]

I have the upper end model, the AVR-2312ci and it sounds excellent and is in like new shape (along with remote). I just replaced it in my smaller media room with the Denon AVR-S960H. Not because I needed to but because I upgraded the main listening area from the AVR-S960H to the AVR-X2800H. So replacing the AVR-2312ci with the much newer and more featured AVR-S960H was a no brainer.

I would expect the AVR-1712 to sound like the AVR-2312ci. I tried a Yamaha before the Denon, I believe it was the RX-A710, and it had HDMI handshake issues, so it was returned.

The AVR-2312ci is in storage.

I looked up the RX-795 and it doesn't seem to exist. Are you talking about the RX-V795? If so, take a hard pass! That receiver is OLD. I had the upper end RX-V995 and the flagship RX-V2095. The Denon AVR-2312ci sounded a lot better as it wasn't as harsh in the treble at loud levels. Also the RX-V995 power transformer was failing and I exchanged and upgraded to the 2095 through dealer program as I didn't want to send the 995 in for repair. At that time the Denon receiver, the AVR-3300, had it's own issues with sound quality and Yamaha was better.

As far as using a home theater system as PC speakers, I don't know. Those speakers were designed to be far field, not near field speakers as PC speakers are. They may not sound very good. I would stick to near field speakers.

 

[crtaudioguy]

No....get the newer Denon.
Age does things to electronics....just like us.

I'm genuinely curious. The Yamaha is new old stock from around 1999. If it was never used, what kinds of things would you expect that age would do to the electronics? I have bought new old stock electronics before that were 20-30 years old (mainly TVs) and never had an issue with them. Only on initial startup was there some wonkiness with the TVs but once they ran for a few minutes they were fine (I'm guessing the capacitors simply had to reform). I'm not discounting what you're saying. I would just like to know more specifics.

 

[lovinthehd]

Toss a coin if it's just down to "sound quality"

 

[Mike Up]

I'm genuinely curious. The Yamaha is new old stock from around 1999. If it was never used, what kinds of things would you expect that age would do to the electronics? I have bought new old stock electronics before that were 20-30 years old (mainly TVs) and never had an issue with them. Only on initial startup was there some wonkiness with the TVs but once they ran for a few minutes they were fine (I'm guessing the capacitors simply had to reform). I'm not discounting what you're saying. I would just like to know more specifics.

Capacitors go bad just sitting, then you can have oxidation form on circuits that aren't used. Old is Old, whether it's sitting or being used.

 

[crtaudioguy]

I have the upper end model, the AVR-2312ci and it sounds excellent and is in like new shape (along with remote). I just replaced it in my smaller media room with the Denon AVR-S960H. Not because I needed to but because I upgraded the main listening area from the AVR-S960H to the AVR-X2800H. So replacing the AVR-2312ci with the much newer and more featured AVR-S960H was a no brainer.

I would expect the AVR-1712 to sound like the AVR-2312ci. I tried a Yamaha before the Denon, I believe it was the RX-A710, and it had HDMI handshake issues, so it was returned.

The AVR-2312ci is in storage.

I looked up the RX-795 and it doesn't seem to exist. Are you talking about the RX-V795? If so, take a hard pass! That receiver is OLD. I had the upper end RX-V995 and the flagship RX-V2095. The Denon AVR-2312ci sounded a lot better as it wasn't as harsh in the treble at loud levels. Also the RX-V995 power transformer was failing and I exchanged and upgraded to the 2095 through dealer program as I didn't want to send the 995 in for repair. At that time the Denon receiver, the AVR-3300, had it's own issues with sound quality and Yamaha was better.

As far as using a home theater system as PC speakers, I don't know. Those speakers were designed to be far field, not near field speakers as PC speakers are. They may not sound very good. I would stick to near field speakers.

You are correct that it is the "Yamaha RX-V795". I forgot the "V". That is good to know about the harsh treble with the Yamaha receiver as I hate harsh treble. Is harsh treble or more emphasis on treble a common characteristic with Yamaha receivers? It may not be ideal but I've been using these Andrew Jones SP-BS22-LR speakers as computer speakers for a decade and they always sounded good for near field listening. I've actually been very happy with them for this purpose. They were connected to an older Marantz receiver that stopped working, hence this post. I've experimented with spacing the speakers farther apart and sitting farther away so that it would be more "far field" and didn't notice much an audio improvement in the room I'm in.

 

[crtaudioguy]

Capacitors go bad just sitting, then you can have oxidation form on circuits that aren't used. Old is Old, whether it's sitting or being used.

True, but I would expect much more wear on the same model receiver that was used regularly vs one that is new old stock. I know there's a risk but based on my experience buying new old stock TVs as old as 40 years old that worked fine, I'd be willing to take a risk on a 25 year old new old stock receiver from any reputable brand. However, based on what you said about the harsh treble, I'm leaning towards not getting the Yamaha receiver.

 

[Mike Up]

You are correct that it is the "Yamaha RX-V995". I forgot the "V". That is good to know about the harsh treble with the Yamaha receiver as I hate harsh treble. Is harsh treble or more emphasis on treble a common characteristic with Yamaha receivers? It may not be ideal but I've been using these Andrew Jones SP-BS22-LR speakers as computer speakers for a decade and they always sounded good for near field listening. I've actually been very happy with them for this purpose. They were connected to an older Marantz receiver that stopped working, hence this post. I've experimented with spacing the speakers farther apart and sitting farther away so that it would be more "far field" and didn't notice much an audio improvement in the room I'm in.

I'm not talking about what people call a bright sound characteristic common to Yamaha as I never heard that. I'm talking about high volume levels.

Up to normal listening levels, the Yamaha sounds fine and as good as the Denons. When pushed to loud listening levels, the older Yamahas sound thin, bass levels drop, and treble compresses, to have a harsh, thin sound quality. The treble is not dynamic, just a louder one level sound which makes it more dominant sounding. It actually makes it sound louder when it's not, because it becomes more fatiguing. For all I know, Yamaha designed it to do this to make it appear louder than the competition, at the loss of sound quality.

By comparison, the Denons sounded the same at very loud levels as they did at more normal levels. They didn't have a strained sound to them.

Glad the speakers sound good near field, many not designed for near field, don't sound good close.

 

[PENG]

You are correct that it is the "Yamaha RX-V995". I forgot the "V". That is good to know about the harsh treble with the Yamaha receiver as I hate harsh treble. Is harsh treble or more emphasis on treble a common characteristic with Yamaha receivers? It may not be ideal but I've been using these Andrew Jones SP-BS22-LR speakers as computer speakers for a decade and they always sounded good for near field listening. I've actually been very happy with them for this purpose. They were connected to an older Marantz receiver that stopped working, hence this post. I've experimented with spacing the speakers farther apart and sitting farther away so that it would be more "far field" and didn't notice much an audio improvement in the room I'm in.

You mentioned 795 in the beginning and now 995 so which is it? Regardless there is very little difference between those 2, and the Denon AVR-1712 has a better preamp/dac section, in terms of specifications anyway, the power amp sections would be comparable objectively, whether they one would sound better is not possible to tell as it is dependent on many other factors.

Talks of Yamaha harsh treble are just subjective based hearsay, based on specs there are no evident that supports such claims one way or another. I would bet analog sources, in direct mode they will sound the same if compared under identical conditions. For digital sources, the Denon will have a slight edge because it has better preamp/dac section but the differences may or may not result in audible differences, though again, it is possible. All my comments are based on both units in original conditions, for used/old units, all bets are off, even if only lightly used.