Sonos Amp or Integrated Amp for 2 channel Music w/bookshelf speakers

[lovinthehd]

Lot to think about , Thanks for sharing your experience.
If I dont find a suitable integrated amp in the price range w/Airplay2, looks like I might have to end up with an AVR, although I will try very hard not to..place an AVR in every room!

Well, with the Heos/Music Cast type satellite gear you wouldn't necessarily need the avr in each room....

 

[Shanman]

Thanks..but they dont seem to support Apple Airplay 2 ?
The peachtree Nova is really powerful..,but its priced $1500 and lacks airplay2, from what I saw.

Sorry bout that, I didn't realize airplay 2 needed to actually be installed software for it to work. I assumed some of the general connectivity via wifi and Bluetooth allowed airplay to work. I need to read up on airplay 2!

 

[everettT]

This relates to tube amps?

I’m trying to figure out how less power gives more dynamics

 

[lovinthehd]

?

 

[AVUser001]

Well, with the Heos/Music Cast type satellite gear you wouldn't necessarily need the avr in each room....

Hi, I looked into Denon Heos Amp & Yamaha WXA-50 MusicCast streaming amplifiers. Both looked great, except that I'm looking for Airplay2 which is not supported in those yet.
True I can stream from iOS devices to Heos amp via Denon app , but then I'd be introducing another multi-room audio system, as I(+family) am primarily using Airplay2 for all my devices.

MusicCast amp supports Airplay ,but not Airplay2 yet ,which is needed for streaming to multiple rooms/devices selectively.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hi, I looked into Denon Heos Amp & Yamaha WXA-50 MusicCast streaming amplifiers. Both looked great, except that I'm looking for Airplay2 which is not supported in those yet.
True I can stream from iOS devices to Heos amp via Denon app , but then I'd be introducing another multi-room audio system, as I(+family) am primarily using Airplay2 for all my devices.

MusicCast amp supports Airplay ,but not Airplay2 yet ,which is needed for streaming to multiple rooms/devices selectively.

Sorry, I'm not an apple guy at all and didn't look for the compatibility just saw it mentioned before, curious just what does airplay 2 bring to the table particularly?

 

[AVUser001]

Sorry, I'm not an apple guy at all and didn't look for the compatibility just saw it mentioned before, curious just what does airplay 2 bring to the table particularly?

No problem at all, appreciate you guys trying to help. Airplay2 brings multi-room audio essentially (streaming to one or more compatible devices, grouping them as needed). The previous version Airplay was a one-to-one streaming.
This Denon PMA-150h supports Airplay2 , provides 70w at 4 Ohms with .004% THD& 110db SNR.
This Marantz PM7000N integrated amp also supports Airplay2, provides 80w at 4 Ohms with .02% THD & 87db SNR
not much reviews yet, as these are new entries looks like. Wondering if anyone has tried these..

The NAD & Peachtree Novas looked grt , but no airplay2 support.

 

[thebrieze]

I’m trying to figure out how less power gives more dynamics

This relates to tube amps?

Rated power (watt rating) relates to average sustained output level - the amount you can turn up the volume dial before distortion kicks in.

Dynamics relates transient peaks and dips - speed and accuracy of following a momentary transient in the music - this is determined by the transformers and capacitors within an amp, even at the same wattage level.

Well designed amps (tube or not) will have great dynamics resulting in better enjoyment of the music even at low/moderate levels. Demanding speakers (4 or 6 ohm) require better (not necessarily more watts) amps to be able to deliver these large spikes in current.

Low/mid range avr’s and amps in desktop style amps like the Sonos will sound relatively flat, even if you can turn up the volume high.

It used to be that quality of an amp was determined by weight (not watts) - good transformers are heavy. However there are now several switched mode power supplies and class D amps that can produce great dynamics without the weight - they aren’t cheap though.

 

[lovinthehd]

No problem at all, appreciate you guys trying to help. Airplay2 brings multi-room audio essentially (streaming to one or more compatible devices, grouping them as needed). The previous version Airplay was a one-to-one streaming.
This Denon PMA-150h supports Airplay2 , provides 70w at 4 Ohms with .004% THD& 110db SNR.
This Marantz PM7000N integrated amp also supports Airplay2, provides 80w at 4 Ohms with .02% THD & 87db SNR
not much reviews yet, as these are new entries looks like. Wondering if anyone has tried these..

The NAD & Peachtree Novas looked grt , but no airplay2 support.

Ah, why I got my Audio Chromecasts

Looking at the manual for the Denon it may have a sub pre-out but makes no mention of bass management at all (and the amp spec is at 1khz/.1THD fwiw). $1100 just seems nuts, tho.

Marantz amp is slightly more powerful but not a lot, and back to just providing a low pass for the sub rather than a crossover....and $1k isn't much better.

 

[lovinthehd]

Rated power (watt rating) relates to average sustained output level - the amount you can turn up the volume dial before distortion kicks in.

Dynamics relates transient peaks and dips - speed and accuracy of following a momentary transient in the music - this is determined by the transformers and capacitors within an amp, even at the same wattage level.

Well designed amps (tube or not) will have great dynamics resulting in better enjoyment of the music even at low/moderate levels. Demanding speakers (4 or 6 ohm) require better (not necessarily more watts) amps to be able to deliver these large spikes in current.

Low/mid range avr’s and amps in desktop style amps like the Sonos will sound relatively flat, even if you can turn up the volume high.

It used to be that quality of an amp was determined by weight (not watts) - good transformers are heavy. However there are now several switched mode power supplies and class D amps that can produce great dynamics without the weight - they aren’t cheap though.

Seriously?

 

[highfigh]

I wouldn't necessarily go with a tube amp tho, unless that sort of coloration (pleasant sounding distortion) to your music is something you prefer. A lot of folks do prefer the sound of tube amps, but I recommend listening to a few before buying one. Solid state amps generally offer the most accurate reproduction of the source material with little or no coloration to the original signal.

A good tube amp doesn't do much/anything to change the sound unless it's being pushed into clipping.

 

[AVUser001]

Looking at the manual for the Denon it may have a sub pre-out but makes no mention of bass management at all (and the amp spec is at 1khz/.1THD fwiw). $1100 just seems nuts, tho.

Marantz amp is slightly more powerful but not a lot, and back to just providing a low pass for the sub rather than a crossover....and $1k isn't much better.

That's where I am stuck. So these are not worthwhile amps for this price?

Short of trying out all these different amps , am just looking at the required watts at 4 Ohms(~100Wpc RMS ) at low distortion(<1% THD) throughut the frequency range(20Hz-20Khz) and high SNR in the ~1K price range...which supports Apple Airplay2 and has Sub-out.

Still looking..

 

[John Parks]

How about this one from Denon?

DRA-800H (2019) Stereo Network Receiver AV Receivers | Denon

Bring amazing audio to your home with the DRA-800H (2019) Stereo Network Receiver. Home theater receivers from Denon integrate your home entertainment flawlessly.

usa.denon.com

It has a solid 100WPC (8 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz, THD: 0.08%, 2ch driven) AirPlay 2, a sub output (no bass management) all for $499 (MSRP).

 

[Shanman]

^^Nice but for that money might as well snag one of the avr 3500's on sale for $550 and get bass management and later expansion benefits.

 

[John Parks]

^^Nice but for that money might as well snag one of the avr 3500's on sale for $550 and get bass management and later expansion benefits.

Agreed, but from Post #5 "Trying to shy away from placing a big AVR in my office..." Granted it is about the same size as an AVR...

 

[Shanman]

Yep, I recommended the Peachtree or one of the vertical NAD amps, but no dice with Airplay 2. He'll find the balance soon I bet.

 

[lovinthehd]

That's where I am stuck. So these are not worthwhile amps for this price?

Short of trying out all these different amps , am just looking at the required watts at 4 Ohms(~100Wpc RMS ) at low distortion(<1% THD) throughut the frequency range(20Hz-20Khz) and high SNR in the ~1K price range...which supports Apple Airplay2 and has Sub-out.

Still looking..

Not to my way of thinking they're not, especially compared to the features an avr brings.....size can be alleviated somewhat I'd think by creative placement and with a remote you don't need to be hands-on anyways. I wonder if someone like Bluesound has something that might work for you....

 

[AVUser001]

Agreed, but from Post #5 "Trying to shy away from placing a big AVR in my office..." Granted it is about the same size as an AVR...

Hi yes, that Denon DRA-800h and Marantz NR1200 Slimline receiver are in similar size category that do support the features I am looking for.., that I might eventually fall back to, if a more compact amp cannot be found that are worthwhile. I do like the form factor of the units mentioned earlier ( PMA 150h & Peachtree Nova, NAD etc), to replace the compact Sonos Amp.

 

[AVUser001]

I wonder if someone like Bluesound has something that might work for you....

They do make Powernode 2i comparable to Sonos amp , actually with more features (including Airplay2 support & Hi-res music) costs $900, but for some reason, they dont seem to have much reviews. For eg, Bestbuy has 0 reviews, Amazon 2 reviews,Crutchfield 1 review.

 

[lovinthehd]

They do make Powernode 2i comparable to Sonos amp , actually with more features (including Airplay2 support & Hi-res music) costs $900, but for some reason, they dont seem to have much reviews. For eg, Bestbuy has 0 reviews, Amazon 2 reviews,Crutchfield 1 review.

I believe @KenM10759 could fill you in on some of the Bluesound stuff....reviews I never bother with except as anecdotal information (unless full measurements accompany).