Sonos Amp or Integrated Amp for 2 channel Music w/bookshelf speakers

[DJ7675]

Multi-room streaming via Airplay2 ,decent power o/p and co-existence with my existing Sonos setup for in-ceiling speakers was the reason I invested in Sonos Amp for my 2 channel music setup in office initially. I've moved on since then ..,turning my casual office setup into my renovated 2 channel listening reference system.
The in-ceiling speakers in Kitchen and Living room are still driven by two Sonos Amps..,but without any sub.

Sonos support ,with escalations to their product engineering , tried everything to make it work (ie increase the sub out) , but failed. The Y cable did help to some extent, but not enough to drive the SVS sub, which I eventually returned. Couldnt believe they'd release their top of the line integrated amp , without extensive testing with third-party subs.

I'm not even following that issue(ie low sub o/p) anymore... Gave up a while ago and moved on. I might try roon for tying all my systems together in the near future.

there are few products that do support Airplay2.

Have you checked this out,

DRA-800H (2019) Stereo Network Receiver AV Receivers | Denon

Bring amazing audio to your home with the DRA-800H (2019) Stereo Network Receiver. Home theater receivers from Denon integrate your home entertainment flawlessly.

usa.denon.com

Thanks for replying. I will cross the Sonos off my list since it may not be able to fully drive a non-Sonos sub. And the more I think about it, it doesn’t have any form of room correction either. Marantz/Denon/Yamaha are really missing the boat unless I am missing something. None of the 2 channel integrated systems seem to have any form of room correction. I can see why many end up with an AVR. I am still hoping for ...
-75-100W into 8ohm
-sub out
-room correction-can be manual peq or something like Audyssey XT32 etc
-Airplay 2 support
-Under $1000 for sure, but closer to $500 would be better

 

[John Parks]

Thanks for replying. I will cross the Sonos off my list since it may not be able to fully drive a non-Sonos sub. And the more I think about it, it doesn’t have any form of room correction either. Marantz/Denon/Yamaha are really missing the boat unless I am missing something. None of the 2 channel integrated systems seem to have any form of room correction. I can see why many end up with an AVR. I am still hoping for ...
-75-100W into 8ohm
-sub out
-room correction-can be manual peq or something like Audyssey XT32 etc
-Airplay 2 support
-Under $1000 for sure, but closer to $500 would be better

Give this a look-see:

R-N803 - Overview - Yamaha USA

The elegant design of the R-N803 is equally matched with powerful brainy internals – a full suite of modern technological and connectivity features make the receiver even more captivating and result in a receiver worthy to take home to your Wi-Fi® and Hi-Fi.

usa.yamaha.com

100WPC (excellent amplifier section) YPAO room correction, sub out, Airplay, streaming, etc. and priced very nicely.

 

[AVUser001]

I'll second John on that , I almost bought that Yamaha unit. Yamaha was in the process of updating their latest devices with Airplay2

Yamaha Enhances Home Audio Products with AirPlay 2, New Music Streaming and Voice Control Capabilities - Yamaha USA

usa.yamaha.com

AirPlay 2, Qobuz and Spotify Connect updates
Beginning in late April and released by model/series: MusicCast 20 and MusicCast 50 wireless speakers, MusicCast BAR 400 sound bar, RX-Ax80 Series AV receivers, RX-Vx85 Series AV receivers, RX-S602 slimline AV receiver, ATS-4080 sound bar, TSR-7850 AV receiver, CX-A5200 AV preamp/processor, XDA-QS5400 MusicCast Multi-Room Streaming Amplifier.
Second half of 2019: MusicCast VINYL 500 turntable

There's also this Marantz, if you want to purely stick to 2 channel and have a smaller form factor than multi-channel AVRs

Marantz US | NR1200

usa.marantz.com

Also Bluesound might work?

POWERNODE 2i

The POWERNODE 2i is our HD streaming multi-room streaming amplifier, just add speakers and turn it up

www.bluesound.com

In the end, I decided to separate the Streamer/DAC/Preamp from the Amp , for more flexibility, but yes any of the D&M, Yamaha AVRs will work fine for your needs (eg Denon 3x00)

 

[DJ7675]

Give this a look-see:

R-N803 - Overview - Yamaha USA

The elegant design of the R-N803 is equally matched with powerful brainy internals – a full suite of modern technological and connectivity features make the receiver even more captivating and result in a receiver worthy to take home to your Wi-Fi® and Hi-Fi.

usa.yamaha.com

100WPC (excellent amplifier section) YPAO room correction, sub out, Airplay, streaming, etc. and priced very nicely.

Thank you for that suggestion. Looks to definitely tick all the boxes. Plus it has the manual variable loudness knob and also YBAO volume. Having room correction and those things are great features. Now I will probably need to decide to just go with a Denon X3500/4400 or this Yamaha. The advantage of the 3500/4400/4500 etc would be additional amps to power other zones. I really didn’t want a receiver looking device but.. might now be much else out there with the functionality/price.

 

[AVUser001]

Thank you for that suggestion. Looks to definitely tick all the boxes. Plus it has the manual variable loudness knob and also YBAO volume. Having room correction and those things are great features. Now I will probably need to decide to just go with a Denon X3500/4400 or this Yamaha. The advantage of the 3500/4400/4500 etc would be additional amps to power other zones. I really didn’t want a receiver looking device but.. might now be much else out there with the functionality/price.

You may have a winner in that Yamaha unit... , only missing thing is the Airplay2 support . Not sure if thats mandatory for you?

I was in the same boat , not too long ago..,in trying to avoid a receiver., but things evolved

 

[DJ7675]

You may have a winner in that Yamaha unit... , only missing thing is the Airplay2 support . Not sure if thats mandatory for you?

I was in the same boat , not too long ago..,in trying to avoid a receiver., but things evolved

So does anyone know for sure one way or the other if it has Airplay 2?

 

[AVUser001]

So does anyone know for sure one way or the other if it has Airplay 2?

It doesnt or else they'd have indicated that . It has only Airplay.

These devices from Yamaha, per that page support Airplay2

AirPlay 2, Qobuz and Spotify Connect updates
Beginning in late April and released by model/series: MusicCast 20 and MusicCast 50 wireless speakers, MusicCast BAR 400 sound bar, RX-Ax80 Series AV receivers, RX-Vx85 Series AV receivers, RX-S602 slimline AV receiver, ATS-4080 sound bar, TSR-7850 AV receiver, CX-A5200 AV preamp/processor, XDA-QS5400 MusicCast Multi-Room Streaming Amplifier.
Second half of 2019: MusicCast VINYL 500 turntable.

For eg,

 

[AVUser001]

Also, You can always check in with Yamaha for the latest..

 

[DJ7675]

Also, You can always check in with Yamaha for the latest..

Just submitted a support ticket asking them directly. But it sounds like it would be pretty unlikely.

 

[AVUser001]

Just submitted a support ticket asking them directly. But it sounds like it would be pretty unlikely.

thats your best bet. Last time I asked them, end of 2019 , response was something like 'we dont have anymore details than that page..pls check back later'

 

[DJ7675]

Thanks for all the replies. Confirmed RN803 does not have Airplay 2. As much as I didn’t want a receiver, that is the route I went with a Denon X3500H. To many features in one box I need for this room.

 

[AVUser001]

Thanks for all the replies. Confirmed RN803 does not have Airplay 2. As much as I didn’t want a receiver, that is the route I went with a Denon X3500H. To many features in one box I need for this room.

Now you know for sure.., If you're keen on small form factor , this might be another option (supports Airplay2),

PMA-150H Integrated Network Amplifier with 70W Power per Channel and HEOS Built-in Amplifiers | Denon

Boost the power of your audio with PMA-150H Integrated Network Amplifier with 70W Power per Channel and HEOS Built-in from Denon. Shop Today.

usa.denon.com

but x3500 might be your best bet if you can accomodate an AVR. I have a x3400 - worth every bit.

 

[DJ7675]

Now you know for sure.., If you're keen on small form factor , this might be another option (supports Airplay2),

PMA-150H Integrated Network Amplifier with 70W Power per Channel and HEOS Built-in Amplifiers | Denon

Boost the power of your audio with PMA-150H Integrated Network Amplifier with 70W Power per Channel and HEOS Built-in from Denon. Shop Today.

usa.denon.com

but x3500 might be your best bet if you can accomodate an AVR. I have a x3400 - worth every bit.

Another nice looking unit... but I don't see room correction. Doesn't appear to have Audyssey.

 

[DJ7675]

After 2-3 back and forths with Sonos ”support” :
“Thank you for getting back in touch with us. We understand that you would like to know the voltage of the subwoofer out port on the Amp.
The subwoofer out port should output at least 1V and fluctuate depending on what the volume is on the Amp and the power being supplied to the subwoofer.”

 

[AVUser001]

After 2-3 back and forths with Sonos ”support” :
“Thank you for getting back in touch with us. We understand that you would like to know the voltage of the subwoofer out port on the Amp.
The subwoofer out port should output at least 1V and fluctuate depending on what the volume is on the Amp and the power being supplied to the subwoofer.”

1V. One thing SVS suggested, that I did not bother to try , was to introduce a cheapish preamp/line level booster between Sonos and the sub, like this

Amazon.com: Stereo Audio Booster with Volume Control + 20dB Gain: Home Audio & Theater

Amazon.com: Stereo Audio Booster with Volume Control + 20dB Gain: Home Audio & Theater

www.amazon.com

Did you get the Denon 3500?

 

[DJ7675]

I did end up getting the x3500 for our living room setup which now consists of Revel M106, and Rythmik L12. It all came down to the right tool for the right job and the right price. Nothing really does what an AV receiver does.
-Room correction-XT32 with App does a very good job
-Audio sync-For whatever reason our dish and apple tv have different audio delays. Receiver does this easily
-Loudness compensation-We don't listen at reference volume in this room. Audyssey DEQ does a very nice job compensating for lower volume listening
-Amplification-Pretty good amp section. Using in a 2.1 system. 115W into 2 channels (beating spec of 100W). 5W SINAD of 84.
-DAC-While 2V output is pretty bad, up to 1.2V is actually plenty good at a SINAD of 96.
-Airplay 2 streaming.. I'm using Airplay 2 for multizone streaming. One device is a sonos and this actually works very well. I'm using Roon to do this which I enjoy using.
-Zone 2 support and amplification-Running a second zone for streaming to outside
I didn't really want a receiver with its size/form factor in our living room... but there just isn't anything that combines so much functionality in 1 box. And the things that matter most... room correction, loudness compensation, ample power and Streaming. All this for $499 delivered with full warranty makes it a no brainer for a living room setup.

 

[Gnevos]

I did end up getting the x3500 for our living room setup which now consists of Revel M106, and Rythmik L12. It all came down to the right tool for the right job and the right price. Nothing really does what an AV receiver does.
-Room correction-XT32 with App does a very good job
-Audio sync-For whatever reason our dish and apple tv have different audio delays. Receiver does this easily
-Loudness compensation-We don't listen at reference volume in this room. Audyssey DEQ does a very nice job compensating for lower volume listening
-Amplification-Pretty good amp section. Using in a 2.1 system. 115W into 2 channels (beating spec of 100W). 5W SINAD of 84.
-DAC-While 2V output is pretty bad, up to 1.2V is actually plenty good at a SINAD of 96.
-Airplay 2 streaming.. I'm using Airplay 2 for multizone streaming. One device is a sonos and this actually works very well. I'm using Roon to do this which I enjoy using.
-Zone 2 support and amplification-Running a second zone for streaming to outside
I didn't really want a receiver with its size/form factor in our living room... but there just isn't anything that combines so much functionality in 1 box. And the things that matter most... room correction, loudness compensation, ample power and Streaming. All this for $499 delivered with full warranty makes it a no brainer for a living room setup.

Just to be the devil's advocate. It's interesting you went with the l12. It actually works really well with the Sonos Amp. I'm running them with a pair of XTZ Spirit 4s. (Soon to be replaced with probably the Dynaudio Evoke 10s) With the rumored high-rez/new format support coming in about a month I think the Sonos Amp is gonna be killer this year.

For me it was about having as small of a box as possible because at the end of the day an amp/AVR is an eyesore.(I know probably not a popular opinion here) So being able to tuck it away without the need of an AV cabinet/room was paramount. Having surrounds that I can unplug and move to another room and continue to sync music through the house has been a great advantage as well.

 

[DJ7675]

Just to be the devil's advocate. It's interesting you went with the l12. It actually works really well with the Sonos Amp. I'm running them with a pair of XTZ Spirit 4s. (Soon to be replaced with probably the Dynaudio Evoke 10s) With the rumored high-rez/new format support coming in about a month I think the Sonos Amp is gonna be killer this year.

For me it was about having as small of a box as possible because at the end of the day an amp/AVR is an eyesore.(I know probably not a popular opinion here) So being able to tuck it away without the need of an AV cabinet/room was paramount. Having surrounds that I can unplug and move to another room and continue to sync music through the house has been a great advantage as well.

Thanks for your reply. While I decided on the Denon which is working great, it is good to hear that the Sonos works fine with your L12 sub. I don’t think the Sonos amp has room correction does it? Using the Audyssey App, the results in our living room with a pair of Revel M106.

 

[Gnevos]

Thanks for your reply. While I decided on the Denon which is working great, it is good to hear that the Sonos works fine with your L12 sub. I don’t think the Sonos amp has room correction does it? Using the Audyssey App, the results in our living room with a pair of Revel M106.

There isn't dsp outside of phantom center imaging unless you use specific Sonance speakers. I know I'm probably losing out on some performance but there really isn't anything in this form factor that has surround capabilities with DSP. I think the NAD M10 has Dirac but it's 2 channel and also $$$$. My hope is to upgrade in 4-6 years when more WiSA products are available.