AVR + External Amp VS Seperates

[Kleinst]

Agreed, but I think once someone has his/her mind thinking about the better specs, especially those keen of bench measurements, are prone to buyer's remorse, 2nd thought etc., if they ended up going for something less expensive but have lower specs/measurements. So, paying a couple thousand dollars more for the 6800 may keep him happier longer.

But this is a good one, is there anything the 6800 does that a 3800 with say a Monolith 7x and a Outlaw 7000x can't do?
Or if you were going to use AMPS for most to all channels in both, is there anything that would be different or is the software and outputs to the pre amps exactly the same?

This is a question I should know the answer to but am not sure. If you don't need more than a 5.2.4 setup then what's the difference?

Thanks

 

[Trell]

But this is a good one, is there anything the 6800 does that a 3800 with say a Monolith 7x and a Outlaw 7000x can't do?
Or if you were going to use AMPS for most to all channels in both, is there anything that would be different or is the software and outputs to the pre amps exactly the same?

This is a question I should know the answer to but am not sure. If you don't need more than a 5.2.4 setup then what's the difference?

Thanks

A minor one, unless you need/want it, is that the 6800 has a "dialogue lift" increasing the volume level of speech frequencies for the center channel while the "same" on the 3800 just increase the volume level.

Probably other differences as well, but you'll have to read the manuals for details.

 

[MysticLint]

@MysticLint mentioned a 7.1.6 speaker configuration down the road and a $4,000 budget. In the new Denon models, 13.4 channel processing starts with the X6800H. In the new Marantz models, 13.4 channel processing starts with the Cinema 30. Both units can power 11 channels.

@MysticLint mentioned getting the X6800H for a discounted $3,000. The Cinema 30 will be more expensive and the AV 20 and AV 10 will be much more expensive and require external amps for all channels.

Now, for those who want their AURO-3D cake and eat their Dolby Atmos too, The AV 10 supports 17.1 channel speaker connections for a 13.1(7.1.6) channel AURO-3D configuration and a 15.1(9.1.6) channel Dolby Atmos configuration and will switch the output speakers accordingly based on the audio format.

When wanting both an AURO-3D and Dolby Atmos speaker configurations, the AURO-3D configuration will be compromised as SHL and SHR speakers will be replaced with RHL and RHR speakers. Dolby Atmos Top(Ceiling) speakers will be limited to the TML and TMR speakers. The Front and Rear Height speakers will be FHL, FHR, RHL and RHR.

Marantz AV 10:
View attachment 73911

This is a pisser for those wanting matching sets. The AV 10 supports 17.1 connections but the Amp 10 powers 16 channels. Those wanting 13.1 channels using the AV 20 are also f#%cked as the Amp 20 powers 12 channels.

Now, for those wanting 13.1(7.1.6) for both AURO-3D and Dolby Atmos, the AV 20 supports 15.1 speaker connections. The same Height speaker limitations from the AV 10 would apply here.

Marantz AV 20:
View attachment 73912

In case anybody is wondering, while the Denon AVR-X6800H and Marantz Cinema 30 do process 13.4 channels, they do not support 15.1 connections like the AV 20 or 17.1 connections like the AV 10 and AURO-3D is compromised more still when configuring for both it and Dolby Atmos.

Finally, for those wanting separate AURO-3D and Dolby Atmos 13.1(7.1.6) speaker configurations and a pair of new Marantz components, the AV 20(15.4 channel processing) and Amp 10(16 channels of power) will get it done… for a hefty price.

Excellent points. However, I’m specifically choosing to put my height speakers at 30 degrees. This is within the Atmos ceiling angle specs. Honestly I think this makes more sense that 45degrees.

If you imagine the atmosphere encoded with object based source, that is laid out in a square box. If the sound engineer puts a sound where the side wall and ceiling meet, then that’s where the sound should originate. That’s where your speaker should go. If your speaker is off the wall in-ceiling, then the sound source is shifted away from the wall/ceiling intersection.

I found this video from TechnoDad that cooperates this perspective:

Is this going to be noticeable? Maybe not. But I suspect that the soundstage would be significantly wider if you put the speakers wider. Dolby even came out and said that 30 degrees was a fine angle for peek performance. I suspect the reason they pushed so hard for a steeper angle was because of the Atmos-Auro3D law suit.

However, I’m an Auro 3D fan, so that’s my plan. Also, my space doesn’t need Front Wides. Worst case I’ll miss out on rear in ceiling atmosphere speakers.

Next, if you look at my room map (below), you’ll see two rectangles behind the couch and to the left/right of the 2nd row seats. Those are support columns. They block the angles right where my rear surrounds want to go, therefore my rear surrounds ended up being much closer together. Also, the purple lines are a lowered ceiling (which adds to the difficulty of getting good acoustics). As such, rear in-ceiling or rear heights wouldn’t work well. Or at least not well enough to justify the expense/effort.

Last, I like the Denon x6800h because in the future, if I REALLY do go with separates, it has 2 enhanced modes:

Mode 1. Turns off all of the processing and run exclusively as an external amp for another AVR. Effectively giving me an 11 Channel external amp.

Mode 2. Turns off all amps, isolating the Pre-outs to pair with external amp(s). Similar to a Marantz separate. Granted the Denon 6800h has WAY less copper plating for isolation and grounding, but I suspect that it is minimal.

I do have concerns that if I got a Denon x4800h and external amps, I would have buyers remorse and want to add a VOG and front height speaker.

If I wasn’t getting the denon x6500h for $3k the. I wouldn’t be considering it. Still open to other opinions if anyone can offer a good 13 channel pre-pro for under $2500, that I can pair with $2000 of external amps.

 

[lovinthehd]

Keep in mind if you go to amp separates that the Denon can output about 2v during max output before distortion starts to rise so you want a amp that can reach full output at something around 1.6v for synergy and clean sound.

I'm with Peng on the output voltage thing....but how does amp sensitivity translate to "synergy"? How do you define synergy?