Philharmonic Audio - 3-way open back ML-TQWTs designed by Dennis Murphy

[PENG]

Did you mean to say "Phil 3" where highlighted above?

To me, he actually meant Phil 2 (new style), that will have the same cabinet size as the Phil 3. Now I realize may be I read it wrong, but may be not.

 

[KEW]

Yup--I'm afraid the party is over. I've run out of, or just about run out of, the Asian cabinets that, along with basic insanity on my part, made the $2000 price possible. Future Phil 2's will have custom made cabinets identical to those of the Phil 3 in either the new style shown at the Capital Audio Fest, or in the original Phil 3 style. So the difference in price between the 3 and the 2will just be the difference in my cost for the woofers. The new-style Phil 3's are $3500/pr, so the corresponding Phil 2 will be $3100. Phil 3's with the old-style cabinets will be $3300/pr, and the Phil 2's with those cabinets will be $2900/pr. The Phil 2's will go 2 or 3 Hz lower in the larger Phil 2 cabinets, which will bring their useful response to about 30 Hz or a little lower.

It is a shame that the Chinese cabinets didn't work out. The Phil1&2's were tremendous bargains for anyone wanting top audio on a tight budget!

Most importantly, as part of the audiophile community, I want to applaud you for having the courage (or stupidity?) to boldly (or blindly?) enter into this enterprise. I hope you didn't get too bloodied in your first year of production as you established what changes are needed to keep your "hobby business" viable.

I, for one, am convinced that, rather than charging "what the market will bear", you are charging what you need to keep the business running and make enough profit to keep it worth your time and trouble.

No doubt, there will be plenty of people who complain about the price increase. It sucks (for them and for you), but at the end of the day, your products and pricing continue to represent a great development in ID audio.

Thank you, sir!

 

[KEW]

To me, he actually meant Phil 2 (new style), that will have the same cabinet size as the Phil 3. Now I realize may be I read it wrong, but may be not.

That makes sense. Thanks!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

That makes sense. Thanks!

Right--not the most artful prose. The Phil 2 in the larger cabinet will go about 2 Hz lower than the old Phil 2 in the smaller Chinese cabinets. I think the Chinese cabinets "worked out" in the sense that they did let me sell much cheaper than I otherwise could. It's just that you really need a larger operation with storage facilities to make it a long-term strategy. And thanks for understanding the motivation for the price increase. As I posted on AVS, the new prices really only represent an increase of $300 for me, and I was losing a good bit of money at the old prices. If anyone actually buys any of these things in the future, I might make $8 an hour. Don't tell Uncle Sam.

 

[jcunwired]

I was the overhaul The new website is all me, well except for all the pictures and information and reviews I stole from various people and websites............so like I said the website was 50% me

And yes, I still despise you for the cuddly center

You did a great job, and saved me the trouble of uploading photos of my maple set here for others to see.

When you start designing websites for NYT, Dell or some other big company you can afford to by the center from me. Don't hate forever.

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks, it's still a work in progress. More changes to come, although what changes I'm not entirely sure, outside cosmetic. Dennis still needs to tell me

I'd just be happy to have another client or two since currently I have......one. Maybe I can finagle one last center out of Dennis in payment for the site

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Could be, but that's the actual difference in my woofer cost. For people with subs, the Scans are pretty much a waste. Also, if you get the old style cabinets, the base price for the 2's is $2900.

I take it back.

It's one of those glass-half-empty thing.

The Phil2 is now a Phil3 minus the ScanSpeak, which is peachy for many people who already have subs.

Physically, the Phil2 will look exactly like the Phil3 (except the woofer).

$2900 + $100 veneer/stain + $150 gloss = $3150 for one pair of shiny Philharmonic speakers w/ RAAL 10D tweeter & BG Neo8 midrange. Not a bad idea.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Perhaps the thinner, more WAF cabinet can be made faster and less expensive so that the speakers can still be $2K w/ RAAL 10D for folks who don't mind a F3 of 40-50Hz - those with dual subs for example.

 

[KEW]

If you are really interested in the best SQ/dollar, asking Del to leave the cabinets in bare mdf would drop the price with no effect on sound.

 

[fuzz092888]

1m, level with tweeter, 1/12 smoothing, average of two consecutive sweeps


Both channels at the listening position, 1/12 smoothing

 

[fuzz092888]

After a little help from Nuance I came up with this from the listening position

 

[fuzz092888]

going measurement crazy

And now off axis, top is 30, then 15, then 45

 

[Dennis Murphy]

going measurement crazy

And now off axis, top is 30, then 15, then 45

That's looking good Alex. Are those taken with one foam pad on the top of the tweeter? Sorry I wasn't able to call you about the web page, but this is the first break I've had. I'll get in touch with you in a day or two when I get back to Washington.

 

[fuzz092888]

All measurements were with no pads and no grills. The measurements should also be worse than they could be because I was either holding the mic or had it propped on something. So with a stand holding the mic still I would expect slightly better measurements.

That's fine, no big deal I'm not doing much of anything anyways

I figured you'd be enjoying your break so I didn't want to call you and disturb it.

 

[fuzz092888]

New video on the homepage.

 

[Lee88]

Could be, but that's the actual difference in my woofer cost. For people with subs, the Scans are pretty much a waste. Also, if you get the old style cabinets, the base price for the 2's is $2900.

I have a Marantz sr6005 and looking through its manual, it has the "main+lfe" mode where the mains are run as large speakers with x-over frequencies to the additional subs. I believe under such settings on the receiver, additional subs complements to the Scans instead of making them reduant. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I have a Marantz sr6005 and looking through its manual, it has the "main+lfe" mode where the mains are run as large speakers with x-over frequencies to the additional subs. I believe under such settings on the receiver, additional subs complements to the Scans instead of making them reduant. Just my 2 cents.

I guess I don't see why you would want to run the Scans full range if you're crossing to a sub. Not only would you probably end up with heavy bass, you would overtax even the Scans on really loud, deep material like monsters doing the mash.

 

[Lee88]

I guess I don't see why you would want to run the Scans full range if you're crossing to a sub. Not only would you probably end up with heavy bass, you would overtax even the Scans on really loud, deep material like monsters doing the mash.

I came across some write ups such as the ones from Dr. Geddes and others on audioholics advocating spreading subs around the listening room. *Running the mains as large and the extra lfe crossed to a sub allows the flexibility of placement at a different location. *The extra sub/s should not be next to or between the mains. *Of course, these will all depend on room size and layout. *

My intention is to start with a 2.0 setup. *I have a decent sized room for the philharmonic 3, it just keeps me guessing if I would need this feature on my receiver.*

 

[fuzz092888]

Tried it and found it to be "redundant". Plus if the front L/R running large and the subs getting the LFE it's way too easy for my liking to start ticking up the volume and bottoming out the scan's. YMMV, but I don't really see the point. Add more subs and/or invest in some good room EQ and you get the same placement flexibility.

 

[frsimms]

Even if the woofer didn’t bottom out it could use up a lot of the power of the amp and not leave very much left for the midrange and tweeter. The midrange or tweeter could then overdrive the amp or be in higher distortion areas if the amp was only of moderate power.

Bob