I'm so angry with the U.S. and Chinese governments right now!

[nbk13nw]

Really?

 

[lovinthehd]

The fed has way more to do with the economics of this country than you seem to understand.
Does trump share some blame? Sure, but blaming it solely on him is pretty silly.
Look I get it, you aren't going to like dt no matter what he does but don't let yourself get fooled into thinkin you have to hate someone because a certain segment of the media tells you to

You missed the point entirely.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes- I think someone should plant an insider and find out who has the most influence and on whom.

They said Kennedy wouldn't be elected because he was Catholic and it seems that the Evangelicals still have more power, which is interesting because the Pilgrims left England to get away from the excesses and power wielded by the Roman Catholic Church.

Well Kennedy did have troubles with the "puritanical" and insane churchy people. Pilgrims also left due to the power exercised by the church of england. Evangelicals I'm referring to are more the tv-type preachers like the Grahams, Bakkers, Falwells, Popoffs, the reality tv shows of church world (which somewhat makes sense they'd support another sham tv reality preacher like the drumpf).

 

[highfigh]

Well Kennedy did have troubles with the "puritanical" and insane churchy people. Pilgrims also left due to the power exercised by the church of england. Evangelicals I'm referring to are more the tv-type preachers like the Grahams, Bakkers, Falwells, Popoffs, the reality tv shows of church world (which somewhat makes sense they'd support another sham tv reality preacher like the drumpf).

I think televangelists should be fired into space.

 

[Trell]

I think televangelists should be fired into space.

I thought there was some treaty against space pollution?

 

[GO-NAD!]

You're mixing issues. Trump is being a jackass in those two cases, especially the nonsense about the Postal Service delivering packages below cost. (That's actually illegal, and the Postal authorities would be guilty of a crime for negotiating it.) My contention is still that Sanders and Warren are just classic socialists. Companies remain private, but they have taxation and "social responsibilities" that make them wards of the state.

That sounds more like merchantilism than socialism to me - private enterprise in the service (and, at the sufferance) of the state.

By no objective measure can the United States be considered a high tax country. As a percentage of GDP, taxes are well below the average amongst OECD countries. One could argue about who is paying too much, or too little, but the overall tax burden certainly isn't onerous. Tax rates, in isolation, say nothing about whether a country is socialist or capitalist.

 

[Irvrobinson]

By no objective measure can the United States be considered a high tax country. As a percentage of GDP, taxes are well below the average amongst OECD countries. One could argue about who is paying too much, or too little, but the overall tax burden certainly isn't onerous. Tax rates, in isolation, say nothing about whether a country is socialist or capitalist.

Absolutely tax rates say a lot about a country's degree of socialism, as the taxation systems are used to redistribute wealth. As for US rates being low, compared to which country? France? Ha! Germany? Double Ha! Israel? Have you looked at their tax rates? And I picked these countries out because they have a non-trivial defense budget to deal with, unlike, say, Canada. Oh yeah, and top Canadian federal tax marginal rates are (just as I thought, 33%) nearly 11% lower than the new 37% US top tax rate. Add in some 10-13% state income taxes, and really successful people in the US pay marginal income tax rates of 50% or higher (because some cities have income taxes too). The policies some of the Democratic candidates are promoting is definitely for the sake of wealth redistribution, and that's socialism.

 

[kystorm]

It's not hate because the media told us too. That's BS. It's the coming down an escalator and imediately with that big mouth of his making sometime the scape goat for problems. It's the praising of Putin while tearing down the current president of the United States. It's the fight with a gold star family. It's the constant arrogance of telling everyone he went to the best schools, was the greatest student, and has the best apartment in NYC. It's the pushing away of allies while embracing dictators like Putin, Erdogan, and Kim. He fell in love with Kim remember that? Beautiful letters from Kim.
So to say it's the media's fault it's bullshit. It's all of his own doing, period. I left out about a million things. The tearing down of institutions that keep us a democracy, like the FBI, the meddling in the justice department, the out right disrespect of the attorney general that orange puss ball picked himself all because the he wouldn't protect him. Oh their is more! It's his own fault for being the wantabe dictator he craves to be.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

Thanks for leaving alot out, If you had typed all of your complaints I woul've quit reading half way through .

Trump has done some good things and he has done some bad things, I'm pretty sure you can say that bout most presidents. Does he deserve the pure hatred that he gets from the left? I say no, and really that's my only point.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Absolutely tax rates say a lot about a country's degree of socialism, as the taxation systems are used to redistribute wealth. As for US rates being low, compared to which country? France? Ha! Germany? Double Ha! Israel? Have you looked at their tax rates? And I picked these countries out because they have a non-trivial defense budget to deal with, unlike, say, Canada. Oh yeah, and top Canadian federal tax marginal rates are (just as I thought, 33%) nearly 11% lower than the new 37% US top tax rate. Add in some 10-13% state income taxes, and really successful people in the US pay marginal income tax rates of 50% or higher (because some cities have income taxes too). The policies some of the Democratic candidates are promoting is definitely for the sake of wealth redistribution, and that's socialism.

Tax rates may say something about the degree of socialism in a given country, but the correlation is not direct. And, you can cherry-pick individual tax rates in an attempt to make your point, but it doesn't prove it. That's why I was referring to taxes as a percentage of GDP.

I'm not sure what you're driving at regarding defense spending, unless you consider a large defense budget to be justifiable, but spending on people is not. Canada spends 1.3% of GDP on defense, Germany spends 1.2%. That's quite inadequate, in my opinion, but the 3.1% that the U.S. spends is excessive.

 

[Hetfield]

Thanks for leaving alot out, If you had typed all of your complaints I woul've quit reading half way through .

Trump has done some good things and he has done some bad things, I'm pretty sure you can say that bout most presidents. Does he deserve the pure hatred that he gets from the left? I say no, and really that's my only point.

Yes he deserves it and more. He is literally tearing down institutions that are the pillars of our democracy for his own selfish gain. This isn't hey he lowered water drinking standards, this is the FBI being killed on a daily basis, the premiere law enforcement agency in the entire world it's being killed daily for him in selfish reasons. The interfering in the justice department.
This isn't the fake BS thrown at Obama about where the hell he was born, that was fake news. What we complain about and see are actual things he is doing.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[Irvrobinson]

Thanks for leaving alot out, If you had typed all of your complaints I woul've quit reading half way through .

Trump has done some good things and he has done some bad things, I'm pretty sure you can say that bout most presidents. Does he deserve the pure hatred that he gets from the left? I say no, and really that's my only point.

You're correct, Trump has (tried to do) some of the right ideas (at least at very high level),like taking on China about trade, reducing a stupid level of red tape regarding building anything in the US, and other things, but his implementation is almost always screwed up, his negotiation skills are that of a third-rate NYC real estate developer, and his personal behavior shows that he has little comprehension of or respect for the office he holds. His unwillingness to consider deep analysis before making decisions, his treatment of senior staff members arguably far more qualified than he is, and his incessant misrepresentation of the facts on Twitter is downright embarrassing.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Tax rates may say something about the degree of socialism in a given country, but the correlation is not direct. And, you can cherry-pick individual tax rates in an attempt to make your point, but it doesn't prove it. That's why I was referring to taxes as a percentage of GDP.

I'm not sure what you're driving at regarding defense spending, unless you consider a large defense budget to be justifiable, but spending on people is not. Canada spends 1.3% of GDP on defense, Germany spends 1.2%. That's quite inadequate, in my opinion, but the 3.1% that the U.S. spends is excessive.

Well, we're going to have to disagree. High and very progressive rates are the primary means of implementing socialist programs. California and Oregon, for example, are already wringing their governmental hands because in those states high income people pay most of the income taxes, and their officials are worried that a bear markets in equities might completely upend their budgets. In California, 48% of the income taxes are paid by the top 1%. 79% income taxes are paid by the top 10%. I've lived and worked in CA for the past 5 years, so I know more about than I'd like.

US defense spending may seem high, because we waste our money on obsolete weapons like aircraft carriers as jobs programs, but considering the threat from China it's too low, IMO. Unless US allies start stepping up, which I doubt will happen. Not that it matters that much. IMO, the next 50 years will be all about China and the US. No one else will matter, unless Iran or North Korea lobs a nuclear weapon.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Well, we're going to have to disagree. High and very progressive rates are the primary means of implementing socialist programs. California and Oregon, for example, are already wringing their governmental hands because in those states high income people pay most of the income taxes, and their officials are worried that a bear markets in equities might completely upend their budgets. In California, 48% of the income taxes are paid by the top 1%. 79% income taxes are paid by the top 10%. I've lived and worked in CA for the past 5 years, so I know more about than I'd like.

US defense spending may seem high, because we waste our money on obsolete weapons like aircraft carriers as jobs programs, but considering the threat from China it's too low, IMO. Unless US allies start stepping up, which I doubt will happen. Not that it matters that much. IMO, the next 50 years will be all about China and the US. No one else will matter, unless Iran or North Korea lobs a nuclear weapon.

How governments spend revenue can be debated until the cows come home. What is not debatable is actual tax revenue collected. Both Canada and the U.S. have lower taxation levels than the OECD average. As a percentage of GDP: Canada - 31.7%; U.S. - 26.0%; OECD Average - 34.8%. One can delve into individual categories of tax and find rates that appear onerous, but it cannot be stated objectively that the U.S. is a "high tax" jurisdiction, at least not within the OECD.

 

[Irvrobinson]

How governments spend revenue can be debated until the cows come home. What is not debatable is actual tax revenue collected. Both Canada and the U.S. have lower taxation levels than the OECD average. As a percentage of GDP: Canada - 31.7%; U.S. - 26.0%; OECD Average - 34.8%. One can delve into individual categories of tax and find rates that appear onerous, but it cannot be stated objectively that the U.S. is a "high tax" jurisdiction, at least not within the OECD.

Well, for starters, your argument is invalid. US federal government spending is only 21% of GDP, but if you add in state and local governments it's estimated at 36% of GDP. And total government debt is enormous. My point is that I'm not arguing the relative spending levels, I'm discussing which people are paying taxes, and it's mostly people who earn high wages or have a lot of capital gains. Most of the population pays relatively low taxes, and my argument is that Bernie and his minions want to make this proportion even more skewed, redistributing even more income through entitlements, making the US more socialistic than it is now. I don't really care what other countries do.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Well, for starters, your argument is invalid. US federal government spending is only 21% of GDP, but if you add in state and local governments it's estimated at 36% of GDP. And total government debt is enormous. My point is that I'm not arguing the relative spending levels, I'm discussing which people are paying taxes, and it's mostly people who earn high wages or have a lot of capital gains. Most of the population pays relatively low taxes, and my argument is that Bernie and his minions want to make this proportion even more skewed, redistributing even more income through entitlements, making the US more socialistic than it is now. I don't really care what other countries do.

My numbers come from Wikipedia; if they are inaccurate, my apologies. So, you're more concerned about who is paying how much? I suppose that's a different argument, to which there is no correct answer. Everyone thinks everyone else should be paying more.

 

[panteragstk]

Well, for starters, your argument is invalid. US federal government spending is only 21% of GDP, but if you add in state and local governments it's estimated at 36% of GDP. And total government debt is enormous. My point is that I'm not arguing the relative spending levels, I'm discussing which people are paying taxes, and it's mostly people who earn high wages or have a lot of capital gains. Most of the population pays relatively low taxes, and my argument is that Bernie and his minions want to make this proportion even more skewed, redistributing even more income through entitlements, making the US more socialistic than it is now. I don't really care what other countries do.

This is interesting to me. I do care what other countries do because all anyone around here can talk about is how high other countries taxes are in comparison to ours. I'd love to see an accurate picture of what that actually looks like. I've done minimal research and have found some of the EU countries to be as high as 45%. Here it's only that if you are in the top tier of taxes.

Am I correct? Is there more to it? Does it scale in other countries like it does here?

 

[Hetfield]

This is interesting to me. I do care what other countries do because all anyone around here can talk about is how high other countries taxes are in comparison to ours. I'd love to see an accurate picture of what that actually looks like. I've done minimal research and have found some of the EU countries to be as high as 45%. Here it's only that if you are in the top tier of taxes.

Am I correct? Is there more to it? Does it scale in other countries like it does here?

Not only that most people that ask about products on here and AVS from other countries usually say the same thing, oh we only have a few choices here for speakers or other products. We have the choice of everything from crazy expensive to crazy cheap. There is a good reason for that, our economy is the biggest in the world and free trade.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[KEW]

Well Kennedy did have troubles with the "puritanical" and insane churchy people. Pilgrims also left due to the power exercised by the church of england. Evangelicals I'm referring to are more the tv-type preachers like the Grahams, Bakkers, Falwells, Popoffs, the reality tv shows of church world (which somewhat makes sense they'd support another sham tv reality preacher like the drumpf).

I'm no expert. but I would have left Graham off the list. I believe he actually walked the walk in addition to talking the talk!

 

[KEW]

Trump has done some good things and he has done some bad things, I'm pretty sure you can say that bout most presidents. Does he deserve the pure hatred that he gets from the left? I say no, and really that's my only point.

Seriously! "Trump has done some good things and some bad things" is your benchmark for measuring a man? You could accurately say that about every human who has walked the face of the Earth! Charles Manson has done some good things and some bad things. So that makes them all equal?

Trump is uniquely different. If you don't see that, I am genuinely surprised.
I don't think it takes much of a reality check to recognize that he has damaged relationships with our allies! He has a tremendous staff turnover rate because he wants to make all the decisions at his own whim. Mattis is not the first US patriot that could not maintain his integrity while acting at Trump's direction.
He blatantly lies whenever he thinks it is in his interest; and casually modifies his story as facts contradict last week's story.
He lacks integrity, lacks maturity, lacks wisdom, lacks honesty, lacks character, and lacks any form of a moral compass.

You absolutely cannot say that about most presidents.

It doesn't help that many of the good things he has done were done in ways that undermine the civility of our society/culture.

 

[Irvrobinson]

This is interesting to me. I do care what other countries do because all anyone around here can talk about is how high other countries taxes are in comparison to ours. I'd love to see an accurate picture of what that actually looks like. I've done minimal research and have found some of the EU countries to be as high as 45%. Here it's only that if you are in the top tier of taxes.

Am I correct? Is there more to it? Does it scale in other countries like it does here?

Taxes in Europe are generally much higher than in the US, but it varies by country so Google and Bing are your friends. Germany's income taxes, for example, top out at about 58%, if you include all of their add-ons and whatever. Also, Germany has a 19% VAT, which we don't have either, but Germans don't have sales taxes. I'm pretty sure all Europeans pay more for fuel than we do. South Korea and Israel also have higher tax structures, but taxes cover things in all of these countries that American taxes don't, and these countries are more comparable to US states in population and economic size than the US as a whole. (California's economy is larger than France's, for example.)

I'm not interested in what these other countries pay because they're not comparable to the US in so many ways, and their economic policies are not anything I'd want us to copy. While the EU as a whole is currently about on par with the US GDP, maybe a touch larger, at current growth rates that won't be true next year, and certainly won't be once Great Britain exits as planned.

I really don't care about what goes on elsewhere. I'd just rather fix the tax structure in the US and make it more simple and equitable. And I like flat, simple taxes that deter loopholes, avoidance strategies, and avenues for cheating. I'm fine with progressive tax rates, but not so we get a tax structure like we have, where the top 10% pays over 80% of the taxes, and the top 0.01% pays less as a percentage than wage earners because they can afford avoidance strategies.