I'm so angry with the U.S. and Chinese governments right now!

[Trell]

Now we have Trump who is beyond dangerous and trying to destroy every institution that keeps the county together and every alliance and the allies we have but people still say, oh yeah I'd still vote for him even though he is dangerous. I must be living in the twilight zone.

So what will it take for you not to vote for him again?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Almost 3 million more votes and lost. Let that sink in there buddy.

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We had this discussion in an another thread. Welcome to the Electoral College system of electing a president. Personally, I wish the Electoral College would go away, but that's so unlikely...

 

[Irvrobinson]

So what will it take for you not to vote for him again?

Since I'm the one who made the original assertion, an opposing candidate in 2020 who is thoughtful, articulate, respects the office, and is not a bigot, a religious fanatic (like Pence), or a socialist, just to name a few criteria.

 

[Hetfield]

So what will it take for you not to vote for him again?

If you think I voted for that orange piece of garbage you haven't been paying attention. I'd vote for my beagle before I voted for him.

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[Hetfield]

By the way the stock market is tanking again today in a short trading day. Trade wars and chaos is not helping anyone.
When all is said and done you will hear stories from people that work in the White House and for this administration that send shivers up your spine and raise the hairs on yours up.

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[Trell]

We had this discussion in an another thread. Welcome to the Electoral College system of electing a president. Personally, I wish the Electoral College would go away, but that's so unlikely...

As an European it is strange that you still have the Electoral College, and as you wrote, it is not going away anytime soon.

I also wonder how long the US Senate can continue to wield enormous power while still have such a hugely unrepresentative constitution. I certainly understand the reason behind it when you made your new federation, but that was a long time ago.

 

[Trell]

If you think I voted for that orange piece of garbage you haven't been paying attention. I'd vote for my beagle before I voted for him.

My apologies, I read your post literally.

 

[highfigh]

I enjoyed that. 24.7% is only "a little more" than 19%. Actually, 24.7% is 30% more than 19%, and 30% is more than a little more. I used to get pretty worked up when Obama wanted me to pay "a little bit more" too.

A few years ago I tried the absolute number argument once with a socialist-leaning friend of one of our children. She was in medical school and her husband was a public school music teacher. She accused us, without any information, of not paying our fair share. The argument occurred in the Spring of that year, so I knew what our total federal tax liability was, and feeling frustrated by the accusation I revealed our federal tax bill to the med student, and asked her if we were paying our fair share. Though her eyes widened with the revelation, she responded that, no, we weren't. Her argument was basically that those who can pay should pay, and that income above a certain level (which at the time she thought was about $80K per year) should be essentially confiscated and redistributed through taxes to "people who need it".

Not so long ago the socialist med student graduated and I've heard is a working physician. I wonder what her tax views are now? ;-)

I would bet that her first few checks were real eye-opener for her. If you talk to her, remind her that employees only pay half of their FICA contribution and that the employer pays the other half. You might also remind her that the top tax rate is now scheduled to decrease to 37%, but at a dollar over the minimum for that bracket, it still brings in $185K. More than a million tax returns were filed by people with AGI of $500K or more.

Tell her to define 'need'. Did these people finish high school? Do they have any marketable skills? Can they read and do basic math? If not, why not? Are they career criminals? Do they have at least one addiction? Are they physically or mentally unable to work?

 

[highfigh]

She still got 3 million more votes no matter how you sice it. He won just enough rural areas. And now thanks to to those voters we have absolute chaos at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.

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It's not the rural areas that made the difference- she wouldn't have won them, anyway.

Exactly, which states gave him the win?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/ElectoralCollege2016.svg/522px-ElectoralCollege2016.svg.png

In the counties where Obama won once, Trump won 194 to 13 and where Obama won twice, Hillary won 467 to 209.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/2016-election/obama-trump-counties/?noredirect=on

 

[Hetfield]

It's not the rural areas that made the difference- she wouldn't have won them, anyway.

Exactly, which states gave him the win?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ec/ElectoralCollege2016.svg/522px-ElectoralCollege2016.svg.png

Michigan and Pennsylvania are the most important but Pennsylvania got a ton of coal jobs out of the deal. You should see all the people rushing into the mines to get black lung disease. Steel Mills are opening everywhere, I have to hop over a few when I walk out of my house just to avoid a them.

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[highfigh]

As an European it is strange that you still have the Electoral College, and as you wrote, it is not going away anytime soon.

I also wonder how long the US Senate can continue to wield enormous power while still have such a hugely unrepresentative constitution. I certainly understand the reason behind it when you made your new federation, but that was a long time ago.

OTOH, our government can't just quit when things aren't going their way. I wouldn't mind having votes of confidence, though. THAT might make it possible to prevent career crim...er...politicians from being in office for too long. Either way, we have Presidential term limits for a reason.

Also, there isn't a single European country that has as many people as the US, which makes comparisons difficult, if not impossible. Europe doesn't have the same people (demographically and many of the former Europeans left because they didn't like their life, although many come here for business. The only former Soviets I know who mention going back are considering it because of the direction the US is heading.

 

[highfigh]

Michigan and Pennsylvania are the most important but Pennsylvania got a ton of coal jobs out of the deal. You should see all the people rushing into the mines to get black lung disease. Steel Mills are opening everywhere, I have to hop over a few when I walk out of my house just to avoid a them.

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She could have won those two states but he would still win.

 

[highfigh]

Almost 3 million more votes and lost. Let that sink in there buddy.

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In California, Clinton won by over 4.3 million votes and their House, Senate and Assembly are wildly Democrat- how do their percentages align with most of the country? They don't. I certainly wouldn't want California to be able to tip the scales and I'm not a far-right winger. Even if I was a moderate Democrat, I wouldn't want that state to cause a candidate to win.

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/results/california

If the country follows California's lead, I and many others will leave. I like to visit family out there, but I sure don't want the country to become what California is.

 

[highfigh]

By the way the stock market is tanking again today in a short trading day. Trade wars and chaos is not helping anyone.
When all is said and done you will hear stories from people that work in the White House and for this administration that send shivers up your spine and raise the hairs on yours up.

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The stock market IS NOT the economy.

 

[Hetfield]

In California, Clinton won by over 4.3 million votes and their House, Senate and Assembly are wildly Democrat- how do their percentages align with most of the country? They don't. I certainly wouldn't want California to be able to tip the scales and I'm not a far-right winger. Even if I was a moderate Democrat, I wouldn't want that state to cause a candidate to win.

https://www.nytimes.com/elections/2016/results/california

If the country follows California's lead, I and many others will leave. I like to visit family out there, but I sure don't want the country to become what California is.

Oh Jesus Christ. Every state is different, nothing is going to change that. No one is going to force Texas or Kentucky become California. I love every state because of the differences. Every state has a different flavor.

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[Hetfield]

The stock market IS NOT the economy.

Right and when orange face would tout how high the stock market is it was but now it doesn't even matter.

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[Trell]

OTOH, our government can't just quit when things aren't going their way. I wouldn't mind having votes of confidence, though. THAT might make it possible to prevent career crim...er...politicians from being in office for too long. Either way, we have Presidential term limits for a reason.

Also, there isn't a single European country that has as many people as the US, which makes comparisons difficult, if not impossible. Europe doesn't have the same people (demographically and many of the former Europeans left because they didn't like their life, although many come here for business. The only former Soviets I know who mention going back are considering it because of the direction the US is heading.

Even a quick look at US States - Ranked by Population 2018 shows that there are democratic issues with the current US Senate constitution with the huge powers it wields. At some point you can have the Senate seen as illegitimate by a large part of the population.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Right and when orange face would tout how high the stock market is it was but now it doesn't even matter.

You don't read the news, do you? Trump is incessantly bashing the Fed for causing the equity markets decline. If he thinks this is bad, wait until discretionary big-ticket item spending slows because the working upper class has large unexpected tax bills to pay from the Republican tax increase.

Personally, I think the Fed is worried about not having the appropriate tools available to deal with further financial crises that might come up (like lowering interest rates and buying securities), so they're raising rates and selling securities. Tuition loans and corporate debt come to mind as the next liquidity worries. I will say this, getting 2.15% on an FDIC-insured savings account is a nice benefit of the tightening (not to mention 2.8% on 12 month CDs).

 

[Irvrobinson]

Even a quick look at US States - Ranked by Population 2018 shows that there are democratic issues with the current US Senate constitution with the huge powers it wields. At some point you can have the Senate seen as illegitimate by a large part of the population.

I don't think that's true. The US Senate was created to be population-independent.

 

[Hetfield]

You don't read the news, do you? Trump is incessantly bashing the Fed for causing the equity markets decline. If he thinks this is bad, wait until discretionary big-ticket item spending slows because the working upper class has large unexpected tax bills to pay from the Republican tax increase.

Personally, I think the Fed is worried about not having the appropriate tools available to deal with further financial crises that might come up (like lowering interest rates and buying securities), so they're raising rates and selling securities. Tuition loans and corporate debt come to mind as the next liquidity worries. I will say this, getting 2.15% on an FDIC-insured savings account is a nice benefit of the tightening (not to mention 2.8% on 12 month CDs).

It's chaos at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue that is causing this. Threatening to fire the fed Chief because he isn't doing what the big baby wants. This is the very definition of instability and craziness. This is causing uncertainty. In the end he will blame anyone and everyone except the slob in the mirror.

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