I'm so angry with the U.S. and Chinese governments right now!

GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Ninja
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#1
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/kovrig-officials-china-canada-1.4944372
https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/canada-meng-wanzhou-1.4944807

Meng Wanzhou, CFO of Huawei, is arrested in Vancouver at the request of American authorities for extradition to the U.S. She was given complete access to legal and diplomatic support. She's been granted bail to live in her mansion until the legal process is complete. Meanwhile, in retaliation, the Chinese government has detained (read: kidnapped) two Canadian citizens and thrown them in some dank dungeon, with no access to legal or diplomatic support. So, what do we get from the U.S. administration as a "show of support"? Pumpkinhead decides to make it a political - vice legal - issue, by indicating that he could possibly use Meng as a pawn during trade negotiations with the Chinese!

I'm sure the Chinese government knows how the legal systems operate in Canada and the U.S. They know her rights are being respected in every aspect. But, I suspect the general public in China have no idea that the atrocious legal system in their country is not universal. So, when POTUS makes statements like that, what other conclusion are they supposed to come to? That Canada arrested her on a "trumped" up charge, that's what!

I've never been impressed by him, but now, I wouldn't pi$$ on him if he was on fire! I try to be polite with my postings, but I (and the vast majority of Canadians) am so annoyed by the current White House administration, it's difficult to comment without sounding intemperate.

My apologies to my American friends who might take offence, but I hope you all understand where I'm coming from.
 
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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
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#2
Truly, you are a Canadian. You show a genuine concern about the well-being of your fellow countrymen, and you ended your political rant with an apology. No American would do either. Just be happy you are in Canada where Trump can only do so much harm. Here in the USA the harm done from his recklessness knows no bounds. The damage he has done and is doing to the credibility of this country is irreparable.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Chief
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227 3 5
#3
Truly, you are a Canadian. You show a genuine concern about the well-being of your fellow countrymen, and you ended your political rant with an apology. No American would do either. Just be happy you are in Canada where Trump can only do so much harm. Here in the USA the harm done from his recklessness knows no bounds. The damage he has done and is doing to the credibility of this country is irreparable.
Yes sir, well said.

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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
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2,866 9 12
#4
China's history of human rights violations and atrocities is insanely long. If they had detained the Canadians and treated them in a similar way as Meng, it would be one thing but throwing them into a dark hole is on them, not the US.

She is accused of dealing with Iran, which is still one of the Middle Eastern countries that are listed as countries sponsoring terrorism- she knew what she was in for, yet she didn't stop.

BTW- Huawei had already been removed from the list of approved vendors for goods used by the US government and military, months ago.

It's not only the US who has sanctioned other countries and individuals-

https://www.international.gc.ca/wor...les/sanctions/current-actuelles.aspx?lang=eng

If he was such a bad candidate, why didn't someone else come out with a better one?

Sorry.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Ninja
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#5
China's history of human rights violations and atrocities is insanely long. If they had detained the Canadians and treated them in a similar way as Meng, it would be one thing but throwing them into a dark hole is on them, not the US.

She is accused of dealing with Iran, which is still one of the Middle Eastern countries that are listed as countries sponsoring terrorism- she knew what she was in for, yet she didn't stop.

BTW- Huawei had already been removed from the list of approved vendors for goods used by the US government and military, months ago.

It's not only the US who has sanctioned other countries and individuals-

https://www.international.gc.ca/wor...les/sanctions/current-actuelles.aspx?lang=eng

If he was such a bad candidate, why didn't someone else come out with a better one?

Sorry.
I'm not blaming the U.S. for what the Chinese have done with these guys. However, Meng was detained at the request of American authorities. And yet, the Chinese grab a couple of Canadians in retaliation. The U.S. government should be offering, at the very least, some vocal support, preferable strong diplomatic support. But no, all we've heard is talk of bargaining chips.

I have no argument with the sanctions; that's not the issue.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,207 11
#7
Truly, you are a Canadian. You show a genuine concern about the well-being of your fellow countrymen, and you ended your political rant with an apology. No American would do either. Just be happy you are in Canada where Trump can only do so much harm. Here in the USA the harm done from his recklessness knows no bounds. The damage he has done and is doing to the credibility of this country is irreparable.
A couple of our (my wife and I) closest friends moved here from Colorado a few years ago, for his work. They are a couple of the nicest, most considerate people I have ever met. I suspect that there are many more like them amongst you.
 
H

Hetfield

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
227 3 5
#8
I'm not blaming the U.S. for what the Chinese have done with these guys. However, Meng was detained at the request of American authorities. And yet, the Chinese grab a couple of Canadians in retaliation. The U.S. government should be offering, at the very least, some vocal support, preferable strong diplomatic support. But no, all we've heard is talk of bargaining chips.

I have no argument with the sanctions; that's not the issue.
We don't have leadership at the moment. It's just a grifter bouncing from one subject to the next he has not a clue about but thinks he does. In over his head is the understatement of all time.

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H

Hetfield

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
227 3 5
#9
They did, and more Americans voted for her than the orange imbecile.
3 million more votes but lost. Democrats get 65% of the votes and end up with 38% of the seats because of gerrymandering. It's a joke. He runs around like he has some giant agenda when 70,000 votes in the right states made the buffoon president.

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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
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4,166 32 17
#10
They are a couple of the nicest, most considerate people I have ever met. I suspect that there are many more like them amongst you.
There are such people here, but they remain hidden. However, if you are in the USA and in need of aid, just say a certain code statement and they will emerge from the shadows to assist you. All you have to do is apologize for apologizing too much.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
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#11
I am very sorry for the way of our president responded to the Canadian hostages.
It is one of many embarrassments he has saddled our country with.
Trump has no understanding of the art of diplomacy.

I have to admit, he does seem to have a knack for understanding power, intimidation, and control; and that seems to be the venue he likes to operate in. As a wealthy businessman, there is no shortage of sycophants willing to suck up to him for the opportunity to get some of his money. He seems not to understand that loyalty does not come from money or manipulation. He has intimidated many of the Republicans to side with him; however, these are people who do not like to have their hand forced, and they will be smiling as Trump is confronted with the reality of his past indiscretions.

Some of his base have let him redefine reality; however, the vast majority still recognize that the FBI, CIA, NSA, etc are not minions of Hillary or of the "deep state".

He does not seem to understand honor, and it is sad to see how readily he is willing to allow Saudi Arabia to plan and execute murder because he can personally profit. Perhaps more troubling is he does not understand why he shouldn't do that. There are likely others who would look the other way (as Trump does) for personal gain, but they understand the penalty if it gets publicly revealed that they put personal gain above morality. Trump seeks to publicly justify it based on exaggerated claims of financial opportunities for our country.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
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#12
They did, and more Americans voted for her than the orange imbecile.
By a very small margin in the popular vote, but absolutely not WRT states.

OK, lets look at why the Electoral College exists, on a smaller scale-

If you have a county that's made up of a group of voting districts, do you want a few large ones to determine the outcome, just because they have more people? I guarantee you don't if they cost the city incredible amounts of money because of their criminal activity, wasteful spending and placing extreme demands on city services. Then, to add insult to injury, they have a school system that decides it needs to increase the size of its school board and spending when the whole school system has a small number of students for the population as a whole, which adds millions to the already high taxes. The adjacent suburbs are forced to pay higher taxes, even though they have no say in who is elected to the city government and as further insult, the people who have no problem violating just about every law in existence go from the city to the 'burbs to carry out their BS and the county government does what it wants because they look at it as "They're in the county, but we operate inside of the city, so it's too bad if they don't like what we're doing".

Now, expand this to the state level- if the two largest cities have the most voters who aren't in agreement with the rest of the state, should the state have to suffer under what those two cities want the government to do, when that wouldn't provide anything near equal services for the rest of the state and the cost to the outlying areas would be higher than it should be?

BTW- the first example is Milwaukee and the second is Wisconsin. The City almost always votes Democrat, but the outlying areas vote mainly Republican. The City hasn't had a Republican Mayor in 100 years and to be honest, it's circling the drain. The problems in the surrounding areas are reaching the point where people are getting out while their homes still have some value. I'll be doing that soon enough and I have lived here my whole life- never thought I would want to leave as much as I do.

The US was never intended to be a simple 'majority rule' type of Democracy- it needs to consider groups of people, not just individual votes. I certainly don't want California and the whole West Coast to determine what happens in the whole country, do you? What about New York, Illinois, Florida, Texas, etc? As it is, the states with the largest populations have the most electoral votes- you would think Hillary could have carried more of those states, but she didn't and in fact, she lost 30 states- why should she have won the election?

I took a computer to have it serviced and my friend had the news on TV going- he listens to many sources, several from Europe and at one point, he said "This country is going to fall". I asked how long he thinks it will take and he said 10-15 years. He came to the US from Ukraine in the late-'70s and is thinking of going back because of where this is heading and he likes living here, but doesn't see good things ahead.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
2,866 9 12
#13
I'm not blaming the U.S. for what the Chinese have done with these guys. However, Meng was detained at the request of American authorities. And yet, the Chinese grab a couple of Canadians in retaliation. The U.S. government should be offering, at the very least, some vocal support, preferable strong diplomatic support. But no, all we've heard is talk of bargaining chips.

I have no argument with the sanctions; that's not the issue.
Do you think that all of our diplomatic actions take place in the open?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Warlord
Ratings
4,739 22 9
#14
By a very small margin in the popular vote, but absolutely not WRT states.
This is true, but that was before Trump made it clear how corrupt he really is.
Before the election, I had several problems that would keep me from voting for him, but I also had some consideration that he might do some positive things (and he has done some, but not as many as I hoped).
Trump promised that if he won he would present his tax returns (as every previous president did before the election).
To me, that was acceptable - it meant he might have some activity that he did not really want to be made public, but his willingness to make his returns public after the election (if he won) was fair reassurance that he was not doing anything overtly illegal. I know white collar crime pays much better than blue collar crime and a good lawyer keeps activities in grey areas of the law where the legal system has a hard time getting good traction (even if the morality of the activities is obviously wrong).
However, after he won, he defined his promise to make his returns public as pointless, because if the people voted him in without seeing his taxes, they must not care what his tax returns say.

HighFigh, I respect you. Over the years, I have recognized you as intelligent, caring, and a man of integrity (maybe I am reading too much between the lines, but I feel pretty certain of my assessment).

However, I am very much miffed that you would let Trump decide for you that it was okay for him to break his conditional promise to release his tax records if elected. That is, in my book, a very dishonorable thing to do and raises a ton of questions about why he decided he would rather go back on his word than reveal his taxes.
Is it that easy? Does he hold enough sway that you agree his win means you don't feel his commitment to reveal his taxes has any relevance?

I have to assume that you would not argue his character at this point, we have seen him tell so many lies that he modifies again and again as facts come out to refute his statements. We have seen him destroy Mark Sanford's political career because Sanford publicly disagreed with him (essentially, Trump gave his seat to the democrats this past election). Republicans are keeping their mouth shut to avoid Trump's attacks. Is that a good model for functioning government? The Congressmen are letting it happen, but the cost of disagreement is pretty high! To me, it seems like we are getting amazingly close to a dictatorship in our democracy.

How do you perceive these thing such that you view them as acceptable? You are far from the only one, but I have a hard time understanding whether you believe it, or why it is not a serious concern!
Is it that you are aware of his "negatives" but feel the positive he is doing is great enough to live with the negatives?
Or do you believe he is a man of upstanding character and integrity?
Or what?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,207 11
#15
Do you think that all of our diplomatic actions take place in the open?
Of course not. I'm glad to see Pompeo finally made a statement condemning the Chinese actions. And, one of the arrested Canadians was finally granted consular access. Still waiting on word about the other one.

I didn't intend to start another debate about the American presidential election process. I only wanted to make the point that for the president to suggest making Meng a bargaining chip during trade talks is incredibly inappropriate. It will certainly give the Chinese the impression that she is actually a hostage. It just makes diplomatic efforts to free the Canadians more difficult than it already is.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
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#16
This is true, but that was before Trump made it clear how corrupt he really is.
Before the election, I had several problems that would keep me from voting for him, but I also had some consideration that he might do some positive things (and he has done some, but not as many as I hoped).
Trump promised that if he won he would present his tax returns (as every previous president did before the election).
To me, that was acceptable - it meant he might have some activity that he did not really want to be made public, but his willingness to make his returns public after the election (if he won) was fair reassurance that he was not doing anything overtly illegal. I know white collar crime pays much better than blue collar crime and a good lawyer keeps activities in grey areas of the law where the legal system has a hard time getting good traction (even if the morality of the activities is obviously wrong).
However, after he won, he defined his promise to make his returns public as pointless, because if the people voted him in without seeing his taxes, they must not care what his tax returns say.

HighFigh, I respect you. Over the years, I have recognized you as intelligent, caring, and a man of integrity (maybe I am reading too much between the lines, but I feel pretty certain of my assessment).

However, I am very much miffed that you would let Trump decide for you that it was okay for him to break his conditional promise to release his tax records if elected. That is, in my book, a very dishonorable thing to do and raises a ton of questions about why he decided he would rather go back on his word than reveal his taxes.
Is it that easy? Does he hold enough sway that you agree his win means you don't feel his commitment to reveal his taxes has any relevance?

I have to assume that you would not argue his character at this point, we have seen him tell so many lies that he modifies again and again as facts come out to refute his statements. We have seen him destroy Mark Sanford's political career because Sanford publicly disagreed with him (essentially, Trump gave his seat to the democrats this past election). Republicans are keeping their mouth shut to avoid Trump's attacks. Is that a good model for functioning government? The Congressmen are letting it happen, but the cost of disagreement is pretty high! To me, it seems like we are getting amazingly close to a dictatorship in our democracy.

How do you perceive these thing such that you view them as acceptable? You are far from the only one, but I have a hard time understanding whether you believe it, or why it is not a serious concern!
Is it that you are aware of his "negatives" but feel the positive he is doing is great enough to live with the negatives?
Or do you believe he is a man of upstanding character and integrity?
Or what?
I think he could get more done if the press would stop making up the news, reports would be complete and people would read the whole story and not just the headlines (like the girl who died in US custody, but was denied food and water by her father for days before reaching the border). It would also help if the members of Congress would sit back, shut up and think about what their job is. Schumer is particularly annoying, since he has been saying things that directly contradict what he said in the past and many videos are available showing him talking about these issues in the past.

Our government hasn't been 'functional' for a long time but with people like Schumer, Pelosi, Waters, Ocasio-Cortez and others like them, we're headed in a bad direction.

I know it will be seen as a 'whataboutism', but others have blocked their personal info before, he's just the last one to do it and no, I have posted many times that if someone wants to be POTUS, they need to bare their soul (if they actually have one). He has a lot of negatives, but that doesn't make him unique, in any way. His are just different from those of others in government. He does, however, come from a different angle and that makes the typical political crowd extremely uncomfortable, to say the least. They don't know how to deal with him, so they're trying to block everything he does and a lot of what he's doing should have been done before, by the people who are trying to block him.

A lot of what people dislike most about him is how he speaks- he sounds like a kid on a New Jersey playground and his tweets are making peoples' hair explode, but does it seem likely that he's sitting there, typing with his thumbs, or speaking into the phone? He's busy- he doesn't have time to fumble and if he reads his tweets, spelling is of less concern than what he's saying. I know a helluva lot of people who couldn't win a 2nd Grade spelling bee, but are engineers, architects, doctors, lawyers and executives- either they can't see errors, they think spell check will catch everything, they have others to correct it or they don't care. That's not the issue, but too many people make it one.

As much as I dislike him as a person, I dislike the Clintons more. Bill has a lot of charisma that get him into some sticky situations but one difference between the two- Clinton did it while he was in office and THAT, IMO should have resulted in harsher consequences. Hell, it didn't even matter to the people who re-elected him. He had a much more cooperative Congress, too. Trump is an outsider, so the Democrats and many moderate Republicans won't work with him.

We can debate this until the end of time but the sad fact is, the majority of American voters know nothing about how government works, how it COULD work and where the country is going. Too many see helping others as Socialism, when it's just people being humane but when they get all lathered up over what they see in the media, rational thinking goes out the window. Some aspects of Socialism are OK, but the fact remains, no purely Socialist government has lasted very long because those at the top will always want more for themselves, which pisses off the rest. Communism doesn't work, if there's ANY desire for people to have some small amount of ambition. In Wisconsin, we have had school vouchers for a short time and they're working well to get kids out of the inner city schools and into a situation where they can learn. Inner city parents jumped at the chance and before that, they would scrape their money together and get any aid that was available, so they could send their kids to parochial or private schools. This started in Sweden and they found that it works. The rationale was that it costs a certain amount to send each kid to school, so why not let parents decide where they go? Makes sense and it's one of the reasons people would choose a neighborhood but then, government decided they couldn't make that choice. Unfortunately, the kids whose parents couldn't afford to get out were stuck in the city schools but that's EXACTLY where the cities should have stepped up and made a difference- THEY had the choice to make schools a place where kids go to learn, to interest them in the way out of poverty and where it could be safe. Here, they have failed miserably. In Chicago, there's Urban Prep Academy that has 100% Black students, 100% graduation and the kids wear uniforms. They college acceptance may actually be >100%, many kids having been accepted to more than one school. I watched a show about them and some kids were offered over $45K/year in scholarships. My point- it's possible, but there's too much bureaucracy.

I have said, for a long time, "The ones we get aren't the ones we need and the ones we need aren't the ones we get".
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
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#18
I think he could get more done if the press would stop making up the news, reports would be complete and people would read the whole story and not just the headlines (like the girl who died in US custody, but was denied food and water by her father for days before reaching the border). It would also help if the members of Congress would sit back, shut up and think about what their job is. Schumer is particularly annoying, since he has been saying things that directly contradict what he said in the past and many videos are available showing him talking about these issues in the past.

Our government hasn't been 'functional' for a long time but with people like Schumer, Pelosi, Waters, Ocasio-Cortez and others like them, we're headed in a bad direction.

.
LOL the press doesn't have to make up the stuff the drumpf does, it's well documented. He's a disaster. Fox propping him up is much more about making up the news than anyone else doing it. Truly fake news in that respect (along with some of the other conspiracy theory sites that the drumpf and his minions seem to feel are worthy sources). I did read about the girl having issues from the journey so not like it was a secret. The whole border mess with the wall and separating children etc may fit the wet dreams of cranky old white dudes but it pisses me off. All the demos listed have not made as big a mess in their entire careers as the the drumpf has in 2 years. He is a disaster. His supporters are just delusional IMO.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
2,866 9 12
#19
LOL the press doesn't have to make up the stuff the drumpf does, it's well documented. He's a disaster. Fox propping him up is much more about making up the news than anyone else doing it. Truly fake news in that respect (along with some of the other conspiracy theory sites that the drumpf and his minions seem to feel are worthy sources). I did read about the girl having issues from the journey so not like it was a secret. The whole border mess with the wall and separating children etc may fit the wet dreams of cranky old white dudes but it pisses me off. All the demos listed have not made as big a mess in their entire careers as the the drumpf has in 2 years. He is a disaster. His supporters are just delusional IMO.
The press is full of crap, on all sides.

WRT immigrants, I saw a clip of a member of Congress who said they don't pose a problem. That's BS. Infectuous diseases are on the rise. It's not just cranky old white dudes, it's people who live near the border.

Google 'crime near the US border' and you'll see that it's bad on both side of the border.

https://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmatters/2011/07/borders-budgets-disease/

I blame social media for the discord, in large measure.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Overlord
Ratings
4,749 18 47
#20
The press is full of crap, on all sides.

WRT immigrants, I saw a clip of a member of Congress who said they don't pose a problem. That's BS. Infectuous diseases are on the rise. It's not just cranky old white dudes, it's people who live near the border.

Google 'crime near the US border' and you'll see that it's bad on both side of the border.

https://blogs.cdc.gov/publichealthmatters/2011/07/borders-budgets-disease/

I blame social media for the discord, in large measure.
The press is what it is; better to have one than the idea that you and your boy drumpf are advocating of banning the press and operating in the darkness the old republican guard has become...paranoid, scared and relatively stupid. Yes, immigrants, especially the original european ones, nearly killed off the whole new world with their infectious diseases....sometimes what goes around comes around? For crime all I have to do is look to the white house....biggest criminal ever as president.
 

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