rmk Audioholic Chief Oct 15, 2007 991 0 93 95608 Feb 12, 2010 #321 gene said: You're still missing the point. The Volume scaling issue I mentioned exists on virtually all products using Audyssey, THX, PLIIx, etc. It drops the max available volume level when all processes are engaged. The Integra simply doesn't show the limitation it just limits max volume while still allowing you to increase it. In most circumstances this wont be noticed unless you are listening to sources recorded at very low levels like I mentioned in my review. It also depends on the efficiency of your speakers, the size of the room and the levels you prefer to listen at. Regarding your calibration issue: If I understand your problem correctly, when you hit the "test tone" button the SPL you measure is 80dB instead of 75dB for each speaker. If that is the case its likely b/c the high sensitivity of your speakers. The simple solution after you balance out all of your channels is to lower the master volume until you read 75dB for all of your speakers then note the master volume level so you can set it to that when playing back movies. Click to expand... Thank you for the reply. Perhaps I am "missing the point" but the fact remains that I can increase the MV of my system and see the resultant increase in SPL on the meter well beyond reference levels. If Audyssey is limiting the max volume it is of no consequence to me. Regarding calibration, the Speaker Setup Test Tones emitted by my processor are not governed by the MV of the processor . I'm sure is the case with the Denon and most if not all other AVR's/SSP's. If you are using an external source for test tones then MV might apply. My manual says the Integra Test Tones are output at 75 db. After Audyssey calibration, my main channels are running at 80db with the channel levels @ approx -9db for the LCR's. I agree with your assumption that this is due to the high sensitivity of my speaker as I previously stated. Since speaker sensitivity levels are highly variable, perhaps the manufacturers should allow the user to input the manufacturers’ sensitivity numbers into the speaker setup and then calibrate the test tones accordingly. Of course, that would depend on consistent (and honest) numbers from the manufacturers.
gene said: You're still missing the point. The Volume scaling issue I mentioned exists on virtually all products using Audyssey, THX, PLIIx, etc. It drops the max available volume level when all processes are engaged. The Integra simply doesn't show the limitation it just limits max volume while still allowing you to increase it. In most circumstances this wont be noticed unless you are listening to sources recorded at very low levels like I mentioned in my review. It also depends on the efficiency of your speakers, the size of the room and the levels you prefer to listen at. Regarding your calibration issue: If I understand your problem correctly, when you hit the "test tone" button the SPL you measure is 80dB instead of 75dB for each speaker. If that is the case its likely b/c the high sensitivity of your speakers. The simple solution after you balance out all of your channels is to lower the master volume until you read 75dB for all of your speakers then note the master volume level so you can set it to that when playing back movies. Click to expand... Thank you for the reply. Perhaps I am "missing the point" but the fact remains that I can increase the MV of my system and see the resultant increase in SPL on the meter well beyond reference levels. If Audyssey is limiting the max volume it is of no consequence to me. Regarding calibration, the Speaker Setup Test Tones emitted by my processor are not governed by the MV of the processor . I'm sure is the case with the Denon and most if not all other AVR's/SSP's. If you are using an external source for test tones then MV might apply. My manual says the Integra Test Tones are output at 75 db. After Audyssey calibration, my main channels are running at 80db with the channel levels @ approx -9db for the LCR's. I agree with your assumption that this is due to the high sensitivity of my speaker as I previously stated. Since speaker sensitivity levels are highly variable, perhaps the manufacturers should allow the user to input the manufacturers’ sensitivity numbers into the speaker setup and then calibrate the test tones accordingly. Of course, that would depend on consistent (and honest) numbers from the manufacturers.
gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator Jul 1, 2002 10,225 0 120 52 Florida www.audioholics.com Feb 12, 2010 #322 Regarding calibration, the Speaker Setup Test Tones emitted by my processor are not governed by the MV of the processor . I'm sure is the case with the Denon and most if not all other AVR's/SSP's. If you are using an external source for test tones then MV might apply. My manual says the Integra Test Tones are output at 75 db. After Audyssey calibration, my main channels are running at 80db with the channel levels @ approx -9db for the LCR's. I agree with your assumption that this is due to the high sensitivity of my speaker as I previously stated. Since speaker sensitivity levels are highly variable, perhaps the manufacturers should allow the user to input the manufacturers’ sensitivity numbers into the speaker setup and then calibrate the test tones accordingly. Of course, that would depend on consistent (and honest) numbers from the manufacturers. Click to expand... There is no way a manufacturer can dictate the SPL you will measure in your room with your speakers when you engage the test tones. You can adjust the master volume while the test tones are engaged and set it so all of your speakers read 75dB at your seated area. Then record that level and use that as your reference if you like. I can also exceed reference levels in my 6000 cu^ft room with Audyssey and PLIIx engaged but its a bit of a challenge when playing back certain HD DVD discs and CDs that are recorded at low levels. I've already spoken to several manufacturers whom are working on this issue and addressing it with next generation volume controls that will allow more dynamic headroom and better scaling. If this wasn't an issue like I mentioned then nobody would be addressing it.
Regarding calibration, the Speaker Setup Test Tones emitted by my processor are not governed by the MV of the processor . I'm sure is the case with the Denon and most if not all other AVR's/SSP's. If you are using an external source for test tones then MV might apply. My manual says the Integra Test Tones are output at 75 db. After Audyssey calibration, my main channels are running at 80db with the channel levels @ approx -9db for the LCR's. I agree with your assumption that this is due to the high sensitivity of my speaker as I previously stated. Since speaker sensitivity levels are highly variable, perhaps the manufacturers should allow the user to input the manufacturers’ sensitivity numbers into the speaker setup and then calibrate the test tones accordingly. Of course, that would depend on consistent (and honest) numbers from the manufacturers. Click to expand... There is no way a manufacturer can dictate the SPL you will measure in your room with your speakers when you engage the test tones. You can adjust the master volume while the test tones are engaged and set it so all of your speakers read 75dB at your seated area. Then record that level and use that as your reference if you like. I can also exceed reference levels in my 6000 cu^ft room with Audyssey and PLIIx engaged but its a bit of a challenge when playing back certain HD DVD discs and CDs that are recorded at low levels. I've already spoken to several manufacturers whom are working on this issue and addressing it with next generation volume controls that will allow more dynamic headroom and better scaling. If this wasn't an issue like I mentioned then nobody would be addressing it.
rmk Audioholic Chief Oct 15, 2007 991 0 93 95608 Feb 13, 2010 #323 There is no way a manufacturer can dictate the SPL you will measure in your room with your speakers when you engage the test tones. You can adjust the master volume while the test tones are engaged and set it so all of your speakers read 75dB at your seated area. Then record that level and use that as your reference if you like. Click to expand... Perhaps this is unique to Onkyo/Integra but the test tones are available in the Setup menu and when I enter the Setup menu the MV (master volume) level setting is irrelevant, in fact the MV level cannot be adjusted until you leave the Setup menu. The test tones are in the Channel Level menu under speaker setup and are designed to produce approx 75 db in room. The individual channel level adjustments can compensate for speaker, room and distance anomalies and allow you to get to the 75db tone level on all speakers. Once this is done, then reference level is @ 0 MV. This thread is the wrong place for this discussion and I apologize for the OT. Last edited: Feb 13, 2010
There is no way a manufacturer can dictate the SPL you will measure in your room with your speakers when you engage the test tones. You can adjust the master volume while the test tones are engaged and set it so all of your speakers read 75dB at your seated area. Then record that level and use that as your reference if you like. Click to expand... Perhaps this is unique to Onkyo/Integra but the test tones are available in the Setup menu and when I enter the Setup menu the MV (master volume) level setting is irrelevant, in fact the MV level cannot be adjusted until you leave the Setup menu. The test tones are in the Channel Level menu under speaker setup and are designed to produce approx 75 db in room. The individual channel level adjustments can compensate for speaker, room and distance anomalies and allow you to get to the 75db tone level on all speakers. Once this is done, then reference level is @ 0 MV. This thread is the wrong place for this discussion and I apologize for the OT.
gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator Jul 1, 2002 10,225 0 120 52 Florida www.audioholics.com Mar 28, 2010 #324 ATTN Fellow AVP Owners I found an unusual bass management issue this weekend when listening to 2CH SACD. Its either the AVP-A1HDCI or DVD-A1UDCI causing the problem. If any owners of this equipment can verify this on their end, it would be helpful. When playing back 2CH SACD via HDMI/D.Link and using bass management for my speakers/subs, the bass levels are about 10-15dB too low compared to using the analog outputs of the BD player. This only happens on SACD, not DVD-A or CD. I also connected my speakers fullrange with no subs and the bass was about the same for both digital and analog connections. Thus the problem is somewhere in how bass is being recombined to the subs when using the digital connection. Anyone else experience this problem? I've never noticed this b4 so I am wondering if the latest firmware for either the player or the processor hosed something.
ATTN Fellow AVP Owners I found an unusual bass management issue this weekend when listening to 2CH SACD. Its either the AVP-A1HDCI or DVD-A1UDCI causing the problem. If any owners of this equipment can verify this on their end, it would be helpful. When playing back 2CH SACD via HDMI/D.Link and using bass management for my speakers/subs, the bass levels are about 10-15dB too low compared to using the analog outputs of the BD player. This only happens on SACD, not DVD-A or CD. I also connected my speakers fullrange with no subs and the bass was about the same for both digital and analog connections. Thus the problem is somewhere in how bass is being recombined to the subs when using the digital connection. Anyone else experience this problem? I've never noticed this b4 so I am wondering if the latest firmware for either the player or the processor hosed something.
Seth V Audioholic Jul 12, 2007 205 0 0 Mar 30, 2010 #325 I tried it on mine and the same thing happened. Bass was nearly non existent. I always use the XLR's for 2 channel SACD's, but this is something that Denon needs to address! Seth Reactions: gene
I tried it on mine and the same thing happened. Bass was nearly non existent. I always use the XLR's for 2 channel SACD's, but this is something that Denon needs to address! Seth
J jomark911 Audioholic Intern Sep 3, 2009 34 0 6 62 athens greece Mar 31, 2010 #326 I will check this on my system and let you know guys. Edit , are you latest updates equiped? Also you run sacd's via dl4 or hdmi? It wouldn't surprise me hdmi doing it's own tricks.But dl4 should not.Try without bass management aka L,R speakers set as large. Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
I will check this on my system and let you know guys. Edit , are you latest updates equiped? Also you run sacd's via dl4 or hdmi? It wouldn't surprise me hdmi doing it's own tricks.But dl4 should not.Try without bass management aka L,R speakers set as large.
Bradh Enthusiast Mar 2, 2005 22 0 1 Apr 4, 2010 #327 I have noticed Dire Straits Brothers in Arms has more bass using PCM vs DSD. Denon AVP & Oppo 83 HDMI SACD. Brad
I have noticed Dire Straits Brothers in Arms has more bass using PCM vs DSD. Denon AVP & Oppo 83 HDMI SACD. Brad
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,058 0 113 Aug 10, 2010 #328 Wow, the last post was from April? I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Reactions: adk highlander and bandphan
Wow, the last post was from April? I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com.
bandphan Banned Dec 13, 2007 6,619 0 0 56 in a haze Aug 10, 2010 #329 AcuDefTechGuy said: Wow, the last post was from April? I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Click to expand... Glad to here it. Pdawg will be giving you a call with my shipping instructions for the "old crappy" denon it will replace. You don't have to pay me to take it but dawg will need a few hundred for his time. Reactions: adk highlander
AcuDefTechGuy said: Wow, the last post was from April? I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Click to expand... Glad to here it. Pdawg will be giving you a call with my shipping instructions for the "old crappy" denon it will replace. You don't have to pay me to take it but dawg will need a few hundred for his time.
adk highlander Sith Lord Nov 13, 2006 4,312 0 113 Whiteface Aug 10, 2010 #330 AcuDefTechGuy said: Wow, the last post was from April? I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Click to expand... Hey good for you. Uggh that is a chunk of change. At least you got free shipping.
AcuDefTechGuy said: Wow, the last post was from April? I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Click to expand... Hey good for you. Uggh that is a chunk of change. At least you got free shipping.
Bradh Enthusiast Mar 2, 2005 22 0 1 Aug 10, 2010 #331 AcuDefTechGuy said: Wow, the last post was from April? I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Click to expand... Congrat. I know you will enjoy it. Update for my. I ended up picking up Mythos ST's for the front and Mythos 10's for center, sides, and 2 Rythmik E15 servo subs. As for an amp I went with the B&K 200.7. Brad
AcuDefTechGuy said: Wow, the last post was from April? I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Click to expand... Congrat. I know you will enjoy it. Update for my. I ended up picking up Mythos ST's for the front and Mythos 10's for center, sides, and 2 Rythmik E15 servo subs. As for an amp I went with the B&K 200.7. Brad
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,058 0 113 Aug 10, 2010 #332 bandphan said: Glad to here it. Pdawg will be giving you a call with my shipping instructions for the "old crappy" denon it will replace. You don't have to pay me to take it but dawg will need a few hundred for his time. Click to expand... Yeah, thanks, that Denon 5308 is no good for me; I just have to get rid of it. I think Pdawg is still snorkeling in his big pool.
bandphan said: Glad to here it. Pdawg will be giving you a call with my shipping instructions for the "old crappy" denon it will replace. You don't have to pay me to take it but dawg will need a few hundred for his time. Click to expand... Yeah, thanks, that Denon 5308 is no good for me; I just have to get rid of it. I think Pdawg is still snorkeling in his big pool.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,058 0 113 Aug 10, 2010 #333 adk highlander said: Hey good for you. Uggh that is a chunk of change. At least you got free shipping. Click to expand... That was the icing on the cake. Actually, I wasn't going to buy it, but the sales lady sounded really sexy, and then she started talking dirty to me. Reactions: billy p
adk highlander said: Hey good for you. Uggh that is a chunk of change. At least you got free shipping. Click to expand... That was the icing on the cake. Actually, I wasn't going to buy it, but the sales lady sounded really sexy, and then she started talking dirty to me.
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,058 0 113 Aug 10, 2010 #334 Bradh said: Congrat. I know you will enjoy it. Update for my. I ended up picking up Mythos ST's for the front and Mythos 10's for center, sides, and 2 Rythmik E15 servo subs. As for an amp I went with the B&K 200.7. Brad Click to expand... Congrats to you as well! I think there is a subliminal message on the DefTech website to buy Denon and a subliminal message on the Denon website to buy DefTech. I've seen so many people buy Denon + Definitive.
Bradh said: Congrat. I know you will enjoy it. Update for my. I ended up picking up Mythos ST's for the front and Mythos 10's for center, sides, and 2 Rythmik E15 servo subs. As for an amp I went with the B&K 200.7. Brad Click to expand... Congrats to you as well! I think there is a subliminal message on the DefTech website to buy Denon and a subliminal message on the Denon website to buy DefTech. I've seen so many people buy Denon + Definitive.
gene Audioholics Master Chief Administrator Jul 1, 2002 10,225 0 120 52 Florida www.audioholics.com Aug 10, 2010 #335 I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Click to expand... Congrats on your purchase! Just don't upload the latest firmware from Denon else you will lose bass for SACDs when using D.Link or HDMI Reactions: AcuDefTechGuy
I just wanted to say I have joined the AVP-A1HDCI club as I have just bought a brand new AVP-A1HDCI from Onecall.com. Click to expand... Congrats on your purchase! Just don't upload the latest firmware from Denon else you will lose bass for SACDs when using D.Link or HDMI
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,058 0 113 Aug 10, 2010 #336 gene said: Congrats on your purchase! Just don't upload the latest firmware from Denon else you will lose bass for SACDs when using D.Link or HDMI Click to expand... Thanks for the heads up, Gene! I won't upload the latest firmware!
gene said: Congrats on your purchase! Just don't upload the latest firmware from Denon else you will lose bass for SACDs when using D.Link or HDMI Click to expand... Thanks for the heads up, Gene! I won't upload the latest firmware!
Warpdrv Audioholic Ninja Dec 13, 2006 4,260 0 0 @ Milwaukee, WI Aug 11, 2010 #337 Congrats buddy.... Nice to have a new piece of equipment on the way.... Hope its lives up to the Rep... Also nice to know that they are all still a work in progress when it comes to firmware upgrades. Its been a long wait for the D2v to get everything just right, but for the most part its a fantastic unit...
Congrats buddy.... Nice to have a new piece of equipment on the way.... Hope its lives up to the Rep... Also nice to know that they are all still a work in progress when it comes to firmware upgrades. Its been a long wait for the D2v to get everything just right, but for the most part its a fantastic unit...
AcuDefTechGuy Audioholic Jedi Jul 10, 2007 34,058 0 113 Aug 11, 2010 #338 Warpdrv said: Congrats buddy.... Nice to have a new piece of equipment on the way.... Hope its lives up to the Rep... Also nice to know that they are all still a work in progress when it comes to firmware upgrades. Its been a long wait for the D2v to get everything just right, but for the most part its a fantastic unit... Click to expand... Thanks. Of course, you know I won't even use audyssey or 95% of the features. I just like those balanced Outputs. And I want to try that Denon Link-4. I'm sure it's going to make the sound so much sweeter.
Warpdrv said: Congrats buddy.... Nice to have a new piece of equipment on the way.... Hope its lives up to the Rep... Also nice to know that they are all still a work in progress when it comes to firmware upgrades. Its been a long wait for the D2v to get everything just right, but for the most part its a fantastic unit... Click to expand... Thanks. Of course, you know I won't even use audyssey or 95% of the features. I just like those balanced Outputs. And I want to try that Denon Link-4. I'm sure it's going to make the sound so much sweeter.
Warpdrv Audioholic Ninja Dec 13, 2006 4,260 0 0 @ Milwaukee, WI Aug 11, 2010 #339 AcuDefTechGuy said: Thanks. Of course, you know I won't even use audyssey or 95% of the features. I just like those balanced Outputs. And I want to try that Denon Link-4. I'm sure it's going to make the sound so much sweeter. Click to expand... There is a great extremely detailed setup guide for Audyssey and you can also add the Pro Kit which really helps out a great deal. Alot of people have had issues with the results of Audyssey and that guide is extremely helpful to getting things right. I have been reading up Audyssey since I'm looking for a new Pre-Pro for the bedroom setup... Not sure what just yet though, it'll likely be an audyssey product. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=154361&d=1254667534 From the bottom of the first post of this thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795421
AcuDefTechGuy said: Thanks. Of course, you know I won't even use audyssey or 95% of the features. I just like those balanced Outputs. And I want to try that Denon Link-4. I'm sure it's going to make the sound so much sweeter. Click to expand... There is a great extremely detailed setup guide for Audyssey and you can also add the Pro Kit which really helps out a great deal. Alot of people have had issues with the results of Audyssey and that guide is extremely helpful to getting things right. I have been reading up Audyssey since I'm looking for a new Pre-Pro for the bedroom setup... Not sure what just yet though, it'll likely be an audyssey product. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=154361&d=1254667534 From the bottom of the first post of this thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795421
P PENG Audioholic Slumlord Oct 23, 2004 19,797 0 113 Ontario Aug 11, 2010 #340 AcuDefTechGuy said: Thanks. Of course, you know I won't even use audyssey or 95% of the features. I just like those balanced Outputs. And I want to try that Denon Link-4. I'm sure it's going to make the sound so much sweeter. Click to expand... Please tell us ASAP if there is audible difference/better/sweeter than the 5308. Thank you in advance.
AcuDefTechGuy said: Thanks. Of course, you know I won't even use audyssey or 95% of the features. I just like those balanced Outputs. And I want to try that Denon Link-4. I'm sure it's going to make the sound so much sweeter. Click to expand... Please tell us ASAP if there is audible difference/better/sweeter than the 5308. Thank you in advance.
