American Communist Med Students graduate

stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Hello John,

Just one question? Do you believe this country (and other countries) should resign their national sovereignty, submit to a central collective body which in turn guarantees protection against agression, puts forth equitable trading practices, abolishes fighting forces both nuclear and conventional (except for it's own), redistributes wealth according to need? I'm just curious where this banter that started with Cuba is leading.

Stratman
Well John?
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Since you can't argue your case, I guess resorting to this type of childish insult and misrepresentation is to be expected. Nice, John.

Remember what I said about assuming? My bad for assuming you were an adult.
Tomorrow, are you serious? I inserted the rolling eyes (sarcasm), and "That last comment was hyperbolic in nature." statement to clarify that my post was sarcastic and hyperbolic. C'mon.
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Well John?
It is not yet plain?

1) It is time to quit the outdated Cuban embargo.
2) It is time to get out of Iraq: our second Vietnam, the Soviet's Afghanistan.

Any questions? C'mon stratman. I know I meander a bit, but I speak (write) plainly enough. A good night to you.
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Well I guess you're a globalist at heart, good night John.
 
Davemcc

Davemcc

Audioholic Spartan
1) It is time to quit the outdated Cuban embargo.
Both your options are strategies for failure that will leave the U.S. geopolitically weaker and more directly threatened.

Let's look at Cuba, Castro firmly in control of his communist regime and Cuba's citizen's trapped in a repressive police state, should we allow U.S. investment to rebuild Cuba's shattered economy (read: military) even as Castro forges alliances around the globe with China, North Korea, Iran and Venezuela?

Cuba is the tip of the spear of the bloc of hostile anti-U.S. nations. While American foreign policy to date has been aimed at blunting the tip of that spear, you would sharpen it? Why not just negotiate a compromise: Chinese nuclear missiles in Cuba and Iranian coastal patrol boats off Miami for ...?



2) It is time to get out of Iraq: our second Vietnam, the Soviet's Afghanistan.
The goal of going into Iraq was to remove Saddam and create a free, stable democracy. To me, this is a noble objective and I hope you would agree. If the U.S. leaves Iraq, the best case scenario is that the fledgling democracy in place survives. I'm not a betting man, but I would bet that democracy in Iraq would not last a week without continued U.S. support. Worst case scenario is a full blown civil war between rival Shiite/Sunni factions leaving tens of thousands dead and, most likely, an Iranian backed puppet state in control.

There are a number of side-benefits to continued U.S. involvement that have nothing to do with Iraq, per se. The asymmetrical nature of the conflict has drawn insurgent fighters from around the globe to Iraq for a chance to directly engage U.S. forces. While it saddens me that American soldiers needlessly die in Iraq, at least they volunteered and they can fight back, which they do admirably, but also which waitresses in Israeli coffee shops and Balinese nightclubs did not and cannot.

Another side-benefit, in geopolitical terms, is that Iran is essentially surrounded by American military forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, carrier groups off the coast and air bases in Kuwait and Diego Garcia. Ahmadinejad can talk tough, but he has to be very careful how he acts in this situation and he knows it. He is one UN resolution or one overtly hostile act away from Saddam's fate. With Ahmadinejad's inflammatory diplomacy and brinksmanship, it is conceivable that he could precipitate a conflict with the U.S. Should that happen, it is best that it be resolved in Tehran, not Miami.

Further, an American withdrawal will be considered a victory for Islamic fundamentalist insurgents around the globe (I can just hear Al Jazeera), who will be emboldened to attack the U.S. again, this time from a secure national state in Iraq, much like Taliban Afghanistan provided a haven and resources for the attacks on 9/11. If nothing else, the American presence in Iraq denies America's enemies the use of that nation for hostile purposes. It is better that whatever political structure evolves in Iraq should be friendly to the U.S. rather than hostile and that can be best achieved by remaining in place until order, security and rule of law are securely established.

If you are unclear about how your solutions will weaken American foreign policy and geopolitical security, strengthen and embolden her enemies, compromise her resolve to aid free democratic nations and threaten her domestic security, please ask.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
I dont understand the American peoples willingness to let the cancer in the middle east survive,and to make excuse after excuse for those sub human savages,hopefully there will come a day where a president will stand up & say F-IT,enough is enough,we are tired of being victims of your religious beliefs & we are not going to foot the bill any longer for your sub human activities.

There used to be a day where we would defend our country with everything we had & once a conflict was started we followed through with every ounce of viscousness needed to bring a timely end to the fighting,hopefully we get back to those ideals before one of the whackos over there gets hold of a nuke & sets new york ablaze.
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
I'm not a betting man, but I would bet that democracy in Iraq would not last a week without continued U.S. support. Worst case scenario is a full blown civil war between rival Shiite/Sunni factions leaving tens of thousands dead and, most likely, an Iranian backed puppet state in control.
Ummm.........
 
J

Johnd

Audioholic Samurai
Cuba is the tip of the spear of the bloc of hostile anti-U.S. nations. While American foreign policy to date has been aimed at blunting the tip of that spear, you would sharpen it? Why not just negotiate a compromise: Chinese nuclear missiles in Cuba and Iranian coastal patrol boats off Miami for ...?
I think the time is long overdue to create new, strong alliances rather than keep old enemies. It is precisely that type of paranoia (that China and Iran will establish military and naval bases in Cuba) that fosters ill will and an unwarranted fear of diplomacy.


The goal of going into Iraq was to remove Saddam and create a free, stable democracy. To me, this is a noble objective and I hope you would agree.
1. The removal of Saddam was arguably necessary, I would not call it noble.
2. The establishment of a free, stable democracy is only noble if the majority of the citizens desire it...otherwise, we become usurpers trading a dictatorship for for an undesirable body politic. Not only is it hugely disrespectful to the citizens of that country, but certain to foster ill will, even hatred as these citizens continue to detest our presence and the imposition of our will. Do you not see the "potential" problem?
3. And how long do you think it takes to establish a "free, stable democracy" in a country that has never known it, and where an entire region rejects the entire principle of democracy? I will tell you it is not 5 1/2 years. The powers that be seemed to think (in 2002) that it could have been accomplished in a year or two. Let me help you. It takes many decades to establish a new stable government.

It is precisely this kind of sheltered, narrow-minded thinking that continually stagnates the changes necessary for us to come out of the hole we've dug for ourselves.

Davemcc: I am not calling you or your post narrow-minded. I both speak and write plainly. I read your entire post. It is well-written, and seemingly logical. I appreciate your input and questions, and the manner in which you deliver them.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
I dont understand the American peoples willingness to let the cancer in the middle east survive,and to make excuse after excuse for those sub human savages,hopefully there will come a day where a president will stand up & say F-IT,enough is enough,we are tired of being victims of your religious beliefs & we are not going to foot the bill any longer for your sub human activities.
Sub-humans? Humanity's cancer?

And from what high and mighty pulpit should we suppose you sir are preaching from?

"Do onto others as you would wish them do onto you."
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
The goal of going into Iraq was to remove Saddam and create a free, stable democracy. To me, this is a noble objective and I hope you would agree. If the U.S. leaves Iraq, the best case scenario is that the fledgling democracy in place survives. I'm not a betting man, but I would bet that democracy in Iraq would not last a week without continued U.S. support. Worst case scenario is a full blown civil war between rival Shiite/Sunni factions leaving tens of thousands dead and, most likely, an Iranian backed puppet state in control.
We went into Iraq for the explicit purpose of destroying WMD's.

More Iraqis have died as a result of our sanctions after the first Gulf war and under our current occupation than under Saddam's rule.

Do you even have the remotest idea of what Iraq was like under Saddam in the 70's and 80's? And what is Iraq like today? Entire generations of Iraq's youth robbed of the dreams and the wealth and the land of their fathers.


Democracy? Democracy indeed.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
Sub-humans? Humanity's cancer?

And from what high and mighty pulpit should we suppose you sir are preaching from?
I preach from the pulpit of the paying customer,from the pulpit of the guy paying the bill,i pay for the gruel that our government feeds them & they pay back my generosity by killing my countrymen.

As always you are quick to rush to the defense of these people & their savage way of life,riddle me this batman,name me one single thing that the Iraqi people do that is for the good of the rest of the world,just one little thing & i'll change my mind about them.

Until then its back to the mud pit with them,along with the rest of the animals.
 
furrycute

furrycute

Banned
As always you are quick to rush to the defense of these people & their savage way of life,riddle me this batman,name me one single thing that the Iraqi people do that is for the good of the rest of the world,just one little thing & i'll change my mind about them.
The present day geographical region known as Iraq was once the heart of Mesopatamia, cradle to one of the four great civilizations of the ancient world.

The ruins of the ancient city of Babylon, which once housed the Hanging Garden of Babylon (one of the seven wonders of the ancient world) lies just fifty miles outside of the present day city of Baghdad.
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
Draconian. Eerily similar to the Nazi view of the "impure" and "unclean".
Ba i say,what next,will i be called a racist because i do not approve one bit of their savage way of life,the Iraqi people think very low of me & i return the feeling.

Your right about resembling the Nazi's though but not with me,i wish no one any harm that does not wish me or my countrymen harm, but if they do wish me or my countrymen harm then i say chop em up into tiny peices without hesitation,before they get the chance to kill more.

What resembles the Nazi's here is how people turn a blind eye or make excuses for savages,the same type people who make excuses for the Iraqi's & how misunderstood they are made the same BS excuses for the Nazi's,how many had to die under the iron boot of Hitlers thugs before the cowardly grew a set.

Still no takers on showing one good thing that the Iraqi people do to benifit the rest of the world i see,i wont hold my breath on that one:rolleyes:
 
Rock&Roll Ninja

Rock&Roll Ninja

Audioholic Field Marshall
Draconian. Eerily similar to the Nazi view of the "impure" and "unclean".
"It is said that Drakon himself, when asked why he had fixed the punishment of death for most offences, answered that he considered these lesser crimes to deserve it, and he had no greater punishment for more important ones."
 
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