Marantz AV10 calibrated by Audyssey lacks bass

[William Lemmerhirt]

Audyssey doesn't eq separately the four subs, just level/delay then eq them as a whole.

Are you sure the new four sub system works that way? It very well could. Just don’t remember.

 

[lovinthehd]

Are you sure the new four sub system works that way? It very well could. Just don’t remember.

Just the way Audyssey works, Audyssey long provided a 4 sub capability but no brand implemented it until this latest generation of D&M. Perhaps in the Multeq-X software you can do individual sub eq? Dunno....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Just the way Audyssey works, Audyssey long provided a 4 sub capability but no brand implemented it until this latest generation of D&M. Perhaps in the Multeq-X software you can do individual sub eq? Dunno....

I think you might be right. I just haven’t dug in for so long. My AVR is staying put for awhile so…. Even with rew I eq my three subs as one, and I do know older versions of Audyssey do too. Guess I’m doing homework lol.

 

[panteragstk]

It's obvious what these subs have from the curves I posted, and it's all I need. I'm not looking for flat to 10 htz.

What is not explained is why Audyssey running on an AV10 (which Audioholics did not review, in room) gives in room errors of 12 dB on subwoofer levels.

My 4300 did the same -12db for my new PL-300 sub. My JBL that it replaced never had that issue. Once I put it in the "green zone" the bass was there for low stuff on movies, but lacked everywhere else. I had to up the volume on the back of the sub to make it sound good.

Now it's great, but I still need to play around with it. I'll be following this to see how you fix this.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think you might be right. I just haven’t dug in for so long. My AVR is staying put for awhile so…. Even with rew I eq my three subs as one, and I do know older versions of Audyssey do too. Guess I’m doing homework lol.

EQ'g of individual subs once played together tends to be the issue

 

[Paul McNeil]

Now it's great, but I still need to play around with it. I'll be following this to see how you fix this.

OK, take a look at the unadulterated AV10 implementation of Audyssey (I did this with the AV10, not the iPhone app) USING ONLY TWO SUBWOOFER OUTPUTS. The problem is fixed! YAHOO!

I will still adjust the bass up a bit, but not 12 dB.

Now who's going to explain this?

 

[PENG]

What is not explained is why Audyssey running on an AV10 (which Audioholics did not review, in room) gives in room errors of 12 dB on subwoofer levels.

Audioholics did do a review on the AV10+Audyssey, using MultEQ X and they were impressed with the results:

Here's just one screenshot, they have many shown in the video:

Audyssey MultEQ-X Pro Calibration Results for Marantz AV 10 Processor (youtube.com)

Such decent results (I could do much better lol...) could be obtainable with the $20 app with a 3rd party UI such as the free Ratbuddyssey, or a low cost Excel based UI, in the below 200 Hz range, just need to more time to tweak, say 5X longer, versus using the $200 app.

In your case, it needs a lot more REW plots to try and find out what's going on, but if you really want to, and is willing to spend hours on it, it can be figured out for sure. Again, as others suggested, if it sounds so good to you now, then of course you can move on, and just enjoy your very nice sounding system instead of wasting time on trying to get better looking graphs.

 

[PENG]

OK, take a look at the unadulterated AV10 implementation of Audyssey (I did this with the AV10, not the iPhone app) USING ONLY TWO SUBWOOFER OUTPUTS. The problem is fixed! YAHOO!

I will still adjust the bass up a bit, but not 12 dB.

Now who's going to explain this?

I thought we did suggest that the way you hook up the 4 subouts may be the issue, as Audyssey is unable to deal with such a setup. As I mentioned, RC systems can only do so much, there are always going to be situations where the algorithm just can't resolve the issues they perceived from the data collected.

I would also predict, as mentioned earlier, that you could use subouts1 and 2 for the two SVS subs and subout3 for the Klipsch stack. Since the two SVS are located close to each other, combined them with just Subout1 like you now have done, may not make much of a difference, but it may, if you want to try.

Take a look of Gene (Audioholics) nice graphs I posted earlier. I will post a couple of mine, vs Dirac Live when I get home later, just to show what can be achieve. I must emphasize again then it does not mean a near straight line from 20-200 Hz will sound better than one that has +/-5 dB peak to peak fluctuation. At least to me, they didn't sound different, but that's just me. To you, a flat smooth curve may not sound as good as what you have now.

Edit: I don't remeber if Gene did that YT video review with how many, or any subwoofers. Have to re-watch it later.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Did you read my most recent post? The 12 dB deficit in bass disappears when when running 2 rather than 4 subwoofers.

I am using the App but, as you suggest, probably not effectively. But I'm not finished yet! Now that we've solved this problem, I can get started on the details.

Again, I don't need 'a lot more plots', the 2 versus 4 subwoofer problem is solved.

Thanks for your help and encouragement Peng!

 

[Paul McNeil]

I thought we did suggest that the way you hook up the 4 subouts may be the issue, as Audyssey is unable to deal with such a setup.

Obviously, despite hyping four sub outputs, Audyssey can't deal with those four! And yes, this was suggested, thank the person who did, and that's why I tried 2 instead of 4.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Take a look of Gene (Audioholics) nice graphs I posted earlier.

Was he running 4 subwoofers?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Was he running 4 subwoofers?

Yes. But they were placed around the room.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So I believe the 2vs4 was the right thing to do. Oddly though, the depression is still there, albeit to much less a degree. What’s interesting is the trough from 20-40 has the same basic shape as before.
Would you humor an old guy and post the new graph from 10-1000?

 

[PENG]

Was he running 4 subwoofers?

I was about edit the post that I don't remember if he used 4 subs, or 2 or none.

You beat me to it with your great question, but will still edit my post. Thanks

 

[Paul McNeil]

Hey, old guy to old guy, no problem.

Everyone, please ignore everything below 500 htz. For one thing the chair platform for my computer blocks the tweeter midrange output from the right Revel front, for another, I will soon set a 500 htz limit for Audyssey correction. That jagged graph above 500 htz cannot be a problem of my Revel Performa F226Be or the AV10, surely!

 

[PENG]

Hey, old guy to old guy, no problem.

Everyone, please ignore everything below 500 htz. For one thing the chair platform for my computer blocks the tweeter midrange output from the right Revel front, for another, I will soon set a 500 htz limit for Audyssey correction. That jagged graph above 500 htz cannot be a problem of my Revel Performa F226Be or the AV10, surely!View attachment 66182

That looks more like it. Just to be sure, is that with one svs, or two svs but connected to just one subout? Two svs sub should be better, imo.

 

[Paul McNeil]

That looks more like it. Just to be sure, is that with one svs, or two svs but connected to just one subout? Two svs sub should be better, imo.

That's two SVS (sub 1 output AV10) and three Klipsch (sub 2 output). All individual subwoofers adjusted independently with Radio Shack sound meter, for equal output on each side.

Now I've got play around with things, using REW for feedback. Maybe the Klipsch should be set higher, to fill in that 40-50 htz depression you pointed out. Maybe humans cannot hear the difference, they are very inaccurate at low frequency resolution, really bad. And I can't hear anything above 10k htz.

 

[PENG]

That's two SVS (sub 1 output AV10) and three Klipsch (sub 2 output). All individual subwoofers adjusted independently with Radio Shack sound meter, for equal output on each side.

Now I've got play around with things, using REW for feedback. Maybe the Klipsch should be set higher, to fill in that 40-50 htz depression you pointed out. Maybe humans cannot hear the difference, they are very inaccurate at low frequency resolution, really bad. And I can't hear anything above 10k htz.

Perfect! By the way, my comments about needing a lot more REW sweeps is only if you, or us haha, want to find out what might have caused the unexpected trough the way you use the 4 subouts before.

 

[snakeeyes]

The specs on his original Marantz 8802A look pretty good. Curious his comparison overall with the new one.

 

[Paul McNeil]

Perfect! By the way, my comments about needing a lot more REW sweeps is only if you, or us haha, want to find out what might have caused the unexpected trough the way you use the 4 subouts before.

Peng, the last thing I want now is more Audyssey chirps followed by REW measurements. Give me a day or two...

PS What is the recommended adult beverage while listening to chirps?