Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[Movie2099]

Exactly. I’ve even heard some people say they took Vinyl and “remastered” it to HiRez.

As if it will sound any better than the original recording.

We see movie studios take old analog films that look like crap and “remaster” them to 4K digital all the time. Some look a little better, and some still look like crap depending on the original source.

It’s the same way with audio, except it’s a lot easier to convert loRez to HiRez audio.

So what’s the point paying for all these so-called 192/24 audio files that came from 44/16 original sources?

I do sound depressing. Probably a lot happier telling myself that all these 192/24 files were originally recorded in the studio at 192/24.

Don’t forget to upgrade your cables to AudioQuest. That 192/24 will sound like 384/48! Oh and ooze chocolate from the mids.

 

[isolar8001]

Exactly. I’ve even heard some people say they took Vinyl and “remastered” it to HiRez.

As if it will sound any better than the original recording.

We see movie studios take old analog films that look like crap and “remaster” them to 4K digital all the time. Some look a little better, and some still look like crap depending on the original source.

It’s the same way with audio, except it’s a lot easier to convert loRez to HiRez audio.

So what’s the point paying for all these so-called 192/24 audio files that came from 44/16 original sources?

I do sound depressing. Probably a lot happier telling myself that all these 192/24 files were originally recorded in the studio at 192/24.

On my music drive, I get pretty OCD about having every version of the music I like....
For instance, I have Peter Gabriel's albums in Redbook, SACD and DSD versions.
Because Im nuts.
I compare files...I don't stream.
At the end of the day...Redbook is all that's needed. The rest is obsession, or just waste.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Don’t forget to upgrade your cables to AudioQuest. That 192/24 will sound like 384/48! Oh and ooze chocolate from the mids.

Well, I wasn’t going to compare HiRez audio to snake oil cables.

I mean nothing wrong with 192/24 audio and nothing wrong with nice cables like Kimber Kable.

Just don’t want to spend the money.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

On Amazon Music Unlimited there’s not many title in 96kHz or 192kHz. I used Dark Side of the Moon anniversary as it recently has been remastered in Atmos and high res. I doubt streaming platforms convert 44.1kHz to higher sampling rate which would cost them way more storage.
I compared Aiplay 2 which is 48kHz/24bit ALAC to FLAC 96or192kHz/bit.
Both are great, but the later is better for me, for sure.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

On Amazon Music Unlimited there’s not many title in 96kHz or 192kHz. I used Dark Side of the Moon anniversary as it recently has been remastered in Atmos and high res. I doubt streaming platforms convert 44.1kHz to higher sampling rate which would cost them way more storage.
I compared Aiplay 2 which is 48kHz/24bit ALAC to FLAC 96or192kHz/bit.
Both are great, but the later is better for me, for sure.

So you compared the SAME SONG using the SAME PLATFORM (Apple Music vs Apple Music), but at different bitrate (96/24 vs 44/16)?

Again, what if one platform (AppleMusic) has inferior service to AmazonMusic?

 

[Trebdp83]

These services are all over the place depending on the service tier and devices used for playback. Apple Music supports hi-res but only Apple devices. Apple Music isn't supported at all as a selectable service using HEOS(Denon/Marantz), MusicCast(Yamaha) or Play-Fi(Anthem/Integra/Onkyo/Pioneer).

So, when using Apple Music hi-res over Airplay 2, it is locked at 16/44.1. Interestingly, Amazon Music Unlimited UltraHD(hi-res) over Airplay 2 will go over up to 24/48. Those using ALAC files must also check the ALAC support of their AVR as ALAC is often limited to 24/96 with a network or USB connection.

Chromecast is another way to get music from one device to another over a network. But, it is limited to 24/96 and is not supported by Yamaha receivers. Chromecast did, for a moment, support Dolby Atmos music over WiFi but was then nixed.

Anyway, back to MusicCast. Amazon Music Unlimited UltraHD(hi-res) and Qobuz hi-res are supported over MusicCast. But, Qobuz is not currently supported on MusicCast in Canada. MusicCast supports Tidal in the US and Canada BUT, hi-ress is not supported and some of there hi-res tracks will come over as AAC rather than lossless FLAC.

The desktop versions of Qobuz and Tidal support hi-res over HDMI but only Tidal has Exclusive Mode. These are options for somebody in Canada with a Yamaha receiver wanting hi-res from either service when MusicCast won't cut it.

 

[isolar8001]

These services are all over the place depending on the service tier and devices used for playback. Apple Music supports hi-res but only Apple devices. Apple Music isn't supported at all as a selectable service using HEOS(Denon/Marantz), MusicCast(Yamaha) or Play-Fi(Anthem/Integra/Onkyo/Pioneer).

So, when using Apple Music hi-res over Airplay 2, it is locked at 16/44.1. Interestingly, Amazon Music Unlimited UltraHD(hi-res) over Airplay 2 will go over up to 24/48. Those using ALAC files must also check the ALAC support of their AVR as ALAC is often limited to 24/96 with a network or USB connection.

Chromecast is another way to get music from one device to another over a network. But, it is limited to 24/96 and is not supported by Yamaha receivers. Chromecast did, for a moment, support Dolby Atmos music over WiFi but was then nixed.

Anyway, back to MusicCast. Amazon Music Unlimited UltraHD(hi-res) and Qobuz hi-res are supported over MusicCast. But, Qobuz is not currently supported on MusicCast in Canada. MusicCast supports Tidal in the US and Canada BUT, hi-ress is not supported and some of there hi-res tracks will come over as AAC rather than lossless FLAC.

The desktop versions of Qobuz and Tidal support hi-res over HDMI but only Tidal has Exclusive Mode. These are options for somebody in Canada with a Yamaha receiver wanting hi-res from either service when MusicCast won't cut it.

What a nightmare....they all are pretty good at charging for HiRez though.
Then, when the internet goes down...ya got nuthin'.
Someday, after the Apocalypse...me and my all hard drives are gonna be the talk of the town !!

 

[panteragstk]

What a nightmare....they all are pretty good at charging for HiRez though.
Then, when the internet goes down...ya got nuthin'.
Someday, after the Apocalypse...me and my all hard drives are gonna be the talk of the town !!

Nothing like a lack of standardization.

 

[Tankini]

What a nightmare....they all are pretty good at charging for HiRez though.
Then, when the internet goes down...ya got nuthin'.
Someday, after the Apocalypse...me and my all hard drives are gonna be the talk of the town !!

This is why I still use a stand-alone CD player; internet goes down you can't stream. Or "streaming services" goes out of business. Yes, I use Net Radio and ripped all of my music CDs to my laptop. Working on ripping all my Blu-ray movies and 4K movies. I'll buy CD and/or both 4K movies also. You don't really "Own" when you just use streaming services.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yeah, spin em' if you got em'.

 

[OldAndSlowDev]

So you compared the SAME SONG using the SAME PLATFORM (Apple Music vs Apple Music), but at different bitrate (96/24 vs 44/16)?

Again, what if one platform (AppleMusic) has inferior service to AmazonMusic?

This is a very good idea but I don't know how I could do that on Amazon Music... I don't have control on the sampling rate. And I only have been able to retrieve the proper sampling rate on the RX-A8A using Amazon Music. Every other services, I got "Digital" input 2.0 or 2.2, but no obvious sampling rate and no information about 16/24bits

 

[Trebdp83]

I'm not going to argue about the sound quality of 24/192 FLAC streams/files vs 16/44.1 streams/files or CDs. But, what seems to be the case with hi-res from services is that any change to the signal for playback because hi-res isn't supported throughout the entire chain of delivery can result in audible changes to the sound. Depending on the devices and connections used for playback, the changes can range from inaudible to very audible with all settings be equal. These streaming services are a mess as support for hi-res and even lossless delivery is not guaranteed on every device used for playback.

Currently, Amazon Music Unlimited is the only service that supports 24/192 FLAC streams via MusicCast in Canada. This is a pisser for those folks in Canada who would prefer to use Tidal via MusicCast as it only supports up to 16/44.1 playback in Canada and the US and Qobuz isn't currently supported by MusicCast in Canada at all but will be soon it seems.

I rarely use my Yamaha anymore but I can enjoy 24/192 FLAC streams from both Amazon Music Unlimited and Qobuz via MusicCast . Most of the time, I'm listening to music in my living room and using my Mac mini M1 connected to my Onkyo via HDMI. Thanks to macOS Sonoma, the HDMI output of the Mac is no longer locked at 24/48. So, with different settings for each service, I can get 24/192 output from Amazon Music Unlimited, Apple Music, Qobuz and Tidal. Unfortunately, getting each of them to output 24/192 requires settings changes in the apps themselves and the Audio MIDI Setup. Don't get me started on the silly work arounds for Bit Depth /Sample rate matching using these services on this f#%kin' setup.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is a very good idea but I don't know how I could do that on Amazon Music... I don't have control on the sampling rate. And I only have been able to retrieve the proper sampling rate on the RX-A8A using Amazon Music. Every other services, I got "Digital" input 2.0 or 2.2, but no obvious sampling rate and no information about 16/24bits

Oh, well, the bottom line is, you got better music from AmazonMusic compared to sorry Apple.

Is it because the AmazonMusic is 192/24 and the Apple is 44/14?

Even if AppleMusic is 192/24, I get the feeling AmazonMusic will still sound better.

I've downloaded 192/24 FLAC files and then down-converted them to 44/16 and then compared them. I did not hear any differences at all in the sound quality. This is why I believe the differences you are hearing is because AppleMusic just sucks.

So screw AppleMusic and just use AmazonMusic. You get better sound quality and higher sampling rates. Win-win.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is why I still use a stand-alone CD player; internet goes down you can't stream. Or "streaming services" goes out of business. Yes, I use Net Radio and ripped all of my music CDs to my laptop. Working on ripping all my Blu-ray movies and 4K movies. I'll buy CD and/or both 4K movies also. You don't really "Own" when you just use streaming services.

Exactly. I prefer to "own" things.

 

[Trebdp83]

I can only speak for myself of course, but all things being equal, meaning same device, receiver, speakers and volume and sound output settings, all of these services sound great when playing back 24/192 tracks on my setup. Apple is the one among them to use ALAC while all of the others use FLAC. Tidal has a long way to go to include 24/192 FLAC streams of tracks that still use MQA as it phases that silly thing out. Now, for comparison, just try to find an album that is in hi-res 24/192 on all four services. Don't get me started on Dolby Atmos support from any of these f#%kers and how to actually get it to your speakers.

 

[3db]

What a nightmare....they all are pretty good at charging for HiRez though.
Then, when the internet goes down...ya got nuthin'.
Someday, after the Apocalypse...me and my all hard drives are gonna be the talk of the town !!

I dont have subscription to any of the musjc streaming companies nor will I ever. No one can point out with 100% assurance if the file they are streaming from a service is authentic high rez or if the selection was converted from a low rez to a high rez source. The expression, you cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear fits the latter. I buy all my music either on vinyl, CD, or digital download and am very content with that. Im not rooked if I lose internet connection as a result of having my own music local to me.

 

[3db]

Bringing the topic back on track to the thread title, has Yamaha fixed or addressed their issues or is this still a work in progress?

 

[cpp]

The desktop versions of Qobuz and Tidal support hi-res over HDMI but only Tidal has Exclusive Mode.

In Qobuz, WASAPI (Exclusive mode). Which you setup via the Qobuz app.

 

[Trebdp83]

The apps for Amazon Music, Apple Music, Qobuz and Tidal are all on my Mac mini M1. No exclusive option for Qobuz there.

 

[massacre]

When will we see a new pre pro? the 5200 is over due for a upgrade.