Power conditioner, Yes or No?

[Speedskater]

I often post:
In that 'power conditioner' is an undefined term. It could mean almost any combination of the following.

a) Noise filter - a low-pass EMI/RFI filter.
b) Surge protector - although it's better to have surge protection at the home's service entrance.
c) UPS - note that many UPS's are not really UPS's!
d) Line voltage adjuster.
e) Balanced power transformer.
f) Isolated power transformer.
g) DC blockers.
h) Regenerators (PSAudio)
i) Power Factor Correction
j) I forget? But I think that there are more.

Power conditioners are seldom needed with reasonable hi-fi systems.

 

[VMPS-TIII]

View attachment 41183

2775 joule rating
That's not even as much as many surge protectors.

Monoprice 12 Outlet Power Surge Protector with 2 Built-In USB Charger Ports - 4320 Joules - Monoprice.com

Protect your electronic equipment from damaging voltage and current spikes with this Monoprice surge protector!This model includes twelve protected power outlets, 4 of which are positioned for AC powe

www.monoprice.com

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

c) UPS - note that many UPS's are not really UPS's!

I am curious about your point C re: UPS - could you elaborate on it, please?

 

[Teetertotter?]

I have had a 3600J Surge protector since 2005 for TV, Denon AV, DirectTV, Modem, Subwoofer, etc., with numerous power interruptions. Some with complete down time for an hour or so. My equipment is working just fine. I have 3 other surge protectors, with 1870j ratings in the house, for TV's with boxes and one laptop, and they have been perfect since 2005. Having the right surge protectors have worked for me and no need for an over kill, in my applications. Knock yourselves out folks!

 

[lp85253]

a $30 surge protector is likely to help with anything that a "power conditioner" would... pc's *for sure* don't make anything sound better ...

 

[MacCali]

I think after some research unfortunately the way to go is actually the regeneration.

It says the voltage regulation is far more crucial than completely eliminating the electric noise.

The isolator I want doesn’t have voltage regulation and the ones that do actually go up to the same price as regen.

What I can do though is I can, or anyone with a business, you can rent that isolator I mentioned for 20 a month. It’s a 6 month term, so I can just drop 120 and test to see if it any benefit. Better than 600 and be stuck with it. Just an option.

But now I got to see if I can find a decent price regenerator, but again this is going to be postponed. I don’t have money or work right now.

Really sucks, cause if everything was normal I would have been able to purchase whatever I wanted all the way back in March when I originally wanted to get my home theater.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think after some research unfortunately the way to go is actually the regeneration.

It says the voltage regulation is far more crucial than completely eliminating the electric noise.

The isolator I want doesn’t have voltage regulation and the ones that do actually go up to the same price as regen.

What I can do though is I can, or anyone with a business, you can rent that isolator I mentioned for 20 a month. It’s a 6 month term, so I can just drop 120 and test to see if it any benefit. Better than 600 and be stuck with it. Just an option.

But now I got to see if I can find a decent price regenerator, but again this is going to be postponed. I don’t have money or work right now.

Really sucks, cause if everything was normal I would have been able to purchase whatever I wanted all the way back in March when I originally wanted to get my home theater.

LOL

 

[MacCali]

I often post:
In that 'power conditioner' is an undefined term. It could mean almost any combination of the following.

a) Noise filter - a low-pass EMI/RFI filter.
b) Surge protector - although it's better to have surge protection at the home's service entrance.
c) UPS - note that many UPS's are not really UPS's!
d) Line voltage adjuster.
e) Balanced power transformer.
f) Isolated power transformer.
g) DC blockers.
h) Regenerators (PSAudio)
i) Power Factor Correction
j) I forget? But I think that there are more.

Power conditioners are seldom needed with reasonable hi-fi systems.

Yes sir, unfortunately I am unaware of all these things. I have never owned legit speakers or an AVR. My dad is into that, but I never got into it. Just wanted to set this up because of being at home since March.

I have been into headphones since last year, so I used that to hold me over for quality sound. I got a pair of Focal Clears with a decent dac/amp.

But now with just a simple stereo setup, 2ch, I am actually preferring speakers. Only con for me is limited volume. I can’t even blast super loud. My sound bar in comparison to volume is my 2ch at -18 dB. So I have a lot of head room. Plus, I prefer the bass on my speakers vs what my sound bar subwoofer provides.

 

[MacCali]

LOL

I don’t know man, that seems to be to consensus. Again, the power regenerators kill the electrical noise as well. So it’s the same thing, not neglecting that.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don’t know man, that seems to be to consensus. Again, the power regenerators kill the electrical noise as well. So it’s the same thing, not neglecting that.

What electrical noise are you referring to?

 

[MacCali]

We

2775 joule rating
That's not even as much as many surge protectors.

Monoprice 12 Outlet Power Surge Protector with 2 Built-In USB Charger Ports - 4320 Joules - Monoprice.com

Protect your electronic equipment from damaging voltage and current spikes with this Monoprice surge protector!This model includes twelve protected power outlets, 4 of which are positioned for AC powe

www.monoprice.com

Well damn man I bought this a while ago, way way before any home theater ever came to mind, think originally it’s 80. Bought it for 29, always used to buy poop when it’s more than 50% off.

Nearly 5000 joules

 

[mazersteven]

Isobar Surge Protector, 8 Outlet, 3840 Joules, Metal Case | Eaton

Protection for A/V components, network hardware, retail displays, appliances, power tools and other electronics against dangerous surges, spikes and line noise. 8 Outlets, 12 ft cord

www.tripplite.com

 

[MacCali]

Isobar Surge Protector, 8 Outlet, 3840 Joules, Metal Case | Eaton

Protection for A/V components, network hardware, retail displays, appliances, power tools and other electronics against dangerous surges, spikes and line noise. 8 Outlets, 12 ft cord

www.tripplite.com

Yea I saw that, that’s a good one for the price, but the higher up models provide more.

Like I said I guess I am just going to hold off until my financial situation changes.

 

[MacCali]

 

[MacCali]

Actually think my UPS is doing the best job, it has voltage regulation +/- 11.5% some of these crazy high end regenerators do 5%. But obviously there’s no regenerators on the UPS and so far everything from that isobar to cyber surge protector do not cover EMI down to the audible range. So that renders useless to benefiting audio I believe

 

[TLS Guy]

Power conditioners are BS. I have scoped the AC current often and apart from one exception when I spotted a failing line transformer the AC wave form from power companies is perfect with very, very low distortion.

What does happen, and quite frequently, are voltage fluctuations. Sensitive electronics does not like that. So a UPS which will support and shave voltage is very important these days. This does not require a regenerative UPS, which are just trouble, generate heat and waste electricity. They are not to be recommended.

UPS units are not really a good idea to power amps, which is another strike against receivers. Really the sensitive stages of receivers need protection, but the power amps do not require them and they certainly could impair performance.

Everything on my systems, except the power amps are protected against power fluctuations and intermittent outages by fast acting (5msec) APC UPS units. In addition there is whole house surge protection. For the last 21 years I have also had generator back up after 5 sec of power interruption. I did this at my former residence. There I had a lovely vintage Wisconsin RMY set, which was a joy. That was all part of the antique mechanical collection I had at our Lake place. All of it was in regular use and gave excellent service.

In the new house I put in a modern Cummins 30 HP unit. The cost of these types of units has dropped enormously in recent years and are now a practical proposition. Power interruptions are a real pain, especially if prolonged. We seem to get much more power interruptions than we used to, related to worsening climate mainly. Long power cuts in the winter are a real pill. Even short ones these days upset routers and the Ethernet infrastructure. All of our Internet infrastructure has UPS back up. So far we have not lost Internet once even during two power outages, one quite prolonged after a squirrel managed to destroy a large transformer and blacked out a good portion of Eagan for a prolonged period. In addition a generator gives you the option of taking your house off grid during unstable conditions, like violent summer electrical storms and winter ice storms.

I do believe the combination of whole house surge protection, five UPS units protecting the sensitive equipment and generator back up has increased the reliability and longevity of my equipment and saved a lot of hassle.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

In the new house I put in a modern Cummins 30 HP unit. The cost of these types of units has dropped enormously in recent years and are now a practical proposition. Power interruptions are a real pain, especially if prolonged. We seem to get much more power interruptions than we used to, related to worsening climate mainly. Long power cuts in the winter are a real pill. Even short ones these days upset routers and the Ethernet infrastructure. All of our Internet infrastructure has UPS back up. So far we have not lost Internet once even during two power outages, one quite prolonged after a squirrel managed to destroy a large transformer and blacked out a good portion of Eagan for a prolonged period. In addition a generator gives you the option of taking your house off grid during unstable conditions, like violent summer electrical storms and winter ice storms.

30 HP or 30 kWA? Never heard anyone discusses home standby generators in HP...
I was looking between Cummins and Kohler and ended up with the later since the installer seemed more straight shooter to me and had better online feedback - I know it's not much, but the word of the month completely failed as this isn't a common selling item. (Kohler was though actually more expensive) .
TL;DR: We bought and installed 20kWA Kohler stand-by genny. Already had it running in need a dozen times during this later summer storms.

 

[MacCali]

Power conditioners are BS. I have scoped the AC current often and apart from one exception when I spotted a failing line transformer the AC wave form from power companies is perfect with very, very low distortion.

What does happen, and quite frequently, are voltage fluctuations. Sensitive electronics does not like that. So a UPS which will support and shave voltage is very important these days. This does not require a regenerative UPS, which are just trouble, generate heat and waste electricity. They are not to be recommended.

UPS units are not really a good idea to power amps, which is another strike against receivers. Really the sensitive stages of receivers need protection, but the power amps do not require them and they certainly could impair performance.

Everything on my systems, except the power amps are protected against power fluctuations and intermittent outages by fast acting (5msec) APC UPS units. In addition there is whole house surge protection. For the last 21 years I have also had generator back up after 5 sec of power interruption. I did this at my former residence. There I had a lovely vintage Wisconsin RMY set, which was a joy. That was all part of the antique mechanical collection I had at our Lake place. All of it was in regular use and gave excellent service.

In the new house I put in a modern Cummins 30 HP unit. The cost of these types of units has dropped enormously in recent years and are now a practical proposition. Power interruptions are a real pain, especially if prolonged. We seem to get much more power interruptions than we used to, related to worsening climate mainly. Long power cuts in the winter are a real pill. Even short ones these days upset routers and the Ethernet infrastructure. All of our Internet infrastructure has UPS back up. So far we have not lost Internet once even during two power outages, one quite prolonged after a squirrel managed to destroy a large transformer and blacked out a good portion of Eagan for a prolonged period. In addition a generator gives you the option of taking your house off grid during unstable conditions, like violent summer electrical storms and winter ice storms.

I do believe the combination of whole house surge protection, five UPS units protecting the sensitive equipment and generator back up has increased the reliability and longevity of my equipment and saved a lot of hassle.

I can agree power conditioners do nothing if they are still connected to same power grid. But an isolator or regenerator do the same thing, take you off the grid

But I did mention earlier my unit is actually just connected to surge protection and not back up. I don’t need my AVR backed up.

And yes voltage regulation is crucial, if you don’t have that you better have a surge protector that covers sags as well.

We don’t have any issues with lightning strikes, but yea it’s all just to keep your way safe. But also trying to do performance enhancement

 

[TLS Guy]

30 HP or 30 kWA? Never heard anyone discusses home standby generators in HP...
I was looking between Cummins and Kohler and ended up with the later since the installer seemed more straight shooter to me and had better online feedback - I know it's not much, but the word of the month completely failed as this isn't a common selling item. (Kohler was though actually more expensive) .
TL;DR: We bought and installed 20kWA Kohler stand-by genny. Already had it running in need a dozen times during this later summer storms.

30 HP produces 20 kWA. If you have a 200 amp panel, then 20 kVA is the minimum power you have to have to be considered a whole house generator. If you go smaller then you have to have two electrical panels and divide the house supply which is more expensive.

I looked at all the generators and decided the Cummins was the best bet. I choose Cummins for these reasons.

They now make their own engines. I believe them to be the best available in class. Small engines are on the whole not what they were. Briggs have really gone to hell in a hand basket. I know from my time at the lake Kohlers are prone to valve burnout.

The accessibility of the Cummins generators was the best for service.

A big factor was noise, as Cummins is the quietest small air cooled generator around. It 63 db at 23 feet.

If you now go bigger than 20 KVA you have to have a water cooled motor, which is much more expensive. That is for reasons of noise pollution.

The old Wisconsin is a real "growler" producing its 20 kVA at 1800 RPM. The Cummins as does you Kohler, produces 20 kVA at 3,600 RPM.

The weather is going to warm up here, so I will give it its yearly service tomorrow.

One of the problems with generators is that people don't generally mount them properly. They are prone to coming loose. So I made the hardware for the attachment before I left the lake.

I welded in the mounting bolts and L-anchors, which are embedded in concrete. The generator mounted to that platform with zero hassle. The installers say they have a lot of trouble with the plastic base supplied with the generator.

The finished installation.

My former Wisconsin RMY.

I really bolted down that one also. There is a lot of torque on generator mountings and they are prone to go "walk about", if you don't build a really substantial mounting.

 

[highfigh]

Hmmm after researching for some time, and seeing what people suggest. Why are we not into using an isolation transformer? it's far cheaper, about a 1/3 of the price, than most power conditioners.

And
This is really confusing, the power isolator has a toroidal transformer and my marantz has a toroidal transformer inside of it, why isn’t it doing anything?

15A 1800 W power isolator is 600.. my unit itself uses 630w at 13 amps. Plus subs etc this sounds like it’s super legit and makes everything else useless.

An isolation transformer breaks the direct connection with the outside world- the toroidal transformer in your Marantz is taking the incoming voltage and changing it to voltages needed inside and that's a big difference.

There's a lot more to choosing equipment than just a few specs.