Power conditioner, Yes or No?

[MacCali]

Hey guys, it's about that time for more BS. We got black friday coming up and I am going to complete my purchases of the rest of my system.

Wondering if I should research more into power conditioners for a purchase. Wanted to get your opinion and thoughts if this is worth the investment.

Currently my AVR is plugged in a Pure Sine Wave UPS. I have other things connected to the UPS and my second UPS is pretty full too when it comes to connections. Should I purchase a separate UPS dedicated to the AVR once I have all my speakers connected? Currently certain on 5.x.2, but may get 5.x.4, and that's 9 speakers on my marantz which is full amp usage. The receiver consumes 13 A, all my plugs are 15 A. So I am not sure how much power draw is going to occur if I have a few other things all connected on one UPS

I wanted to see my options and also figure out how I would possibly set this up if I plan to proceed. The UPS says DO NOT plug into an extension cord, so I am guessing I would put the power conditioner connected to the UPS and the AVR to the connected to the power conditioner. I am not certain if this is possible or any benefit this would have, or just ditch the UPS entirely and go strictly power conditioner.

I do not use the UPS to power the receiver incase of power failure, I just have my wall plugs connected to the UPS and plug everything else into that as each has 12 plugs, have a few things that do need to stay online in case of a power failure, but the receiver isn't one of them.

My local audio store has an AudioPrism Foundation 3 power conditioner as a demo they are selling for 325, normally it is ~1000. Really not trying to dump crazy amounts of money so I am trying to see what I can do to cut corners and get any benefits if they exist.

 

[Leemix]

UPS can be bad for the sound, how bad depends on the model and what it does to the power and your AVR. If you want true clean power look into power regenerators, they are expensive.
A power conditioner wont automatically make everything better, they are usually to avoid the really bad by doing less bad. Impossible for any of us to know if you need one because we dont know how your power in the wall is or if the AVR is affected by it. I do use a power conditioner but without for me is better when its good but much worse when its not and that changes all through the day and week. So i use one because without makes me not want to listen to music a bit too often and with its good at those times. This is for 2ch music, for movies and such i probably wouldnt notice if i removed it at all.


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[VMPS-TIII]

In my humble opinion, UPS is a waste of money. The safest protection idea I have is to unplug gear when not in use.

As a support person for computer servers I found 30% of the time when drives would not spin up it was a UPS issue. Most customers don't understand the UPS starts to lose power from the 1st day it's turned on. Usually after a year to 18 months it's time to replace. Few do that so their power is crippled causing them not to have enough power to spin up the array.

It will have the same lifespan and reduction of power with any power demand. With amplifiers it will simply reduce the amount of power available as the UPS ages.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Both Leemix and VMPS-TIII are wrong. Power conditioners waste of money and UPS CAN'T be good or bad for sound - it's complete BS.
If you live in an area where you have occasional brownouts or blackouts, then pure sine UPS is a sane investment.
Make sure you size one capable of supporting the running your A/V equipment at full blast.

 

[mazersteven]

I have a Belkin PureAV PF60

 

[MacCali]

In my humble opinion, UPS is a waste of money. The safest protection idea I have is to unplug gear when not in use.

As a support person for computer servers I found 30% of the time when drives would not spin up it was a UPS issue. Most customers don't understand the UPS starts to lose power from the 1st day it's turned on. Usually after a year to 18 months it's time to replace. Few do that so their power is crippled causing them not to have enough power to spin up the array.

It will have the same lifespan and reduction of power with any power demand. With amplifiers it will simply reduce the amount of power available as the UPS ages.

I don’t use my UPS for my AVR on purpose. I just use the UPS as my plugs for all equipment the same way a power strip is being used.

I am not sure precisely who mentioned in my post about power cable plugs that using a UPS with legitimate pure sine wave is actually beneficial for sound quality. As it somewhat takes it off the grid.

But I see what you are saying and regenerators are probably expensive for this much power requirement, just guessing

That’s also helpful information about the UPS I was unaware of, the UPS itself is only 6 months old and the replacement battery is only 40. So at least upkeep won’t be an issue.

 

[MacCali]

Both Leemix and VMPS-TIII are wrong. Power conditioners waste of money and UPS CAN'T be good or bad for sound - it's complete BS.
If you live in an area where you have occasional brownouts or blackouts, then pure sine UPS is a sane investment.
Make sure you size one capable of supporting the running your A/V equipment at full blast.

My AVR is only connected to the surge protection, not battery back up for black outs.

Is there any reason I should connect it to the back up power?

 

[MacCali]

I have a Belkin PureAV PF60
View attachment 41165
View attachment 41166

That’s nice, I’ll check that out, what are you running on that?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Dirty power, such as brownouts (lights flickering, but not going totally off) could possibly damage your equipment. UPS will protect for such events. I had plenty of power outs and all of my A/V stuff is simply protected by trivial surge protectors. Confession time - my office PC one which I need for my work is protected by a bit nicer TripLite surge protector with AC filters and my servers in the basement are behind a couple of UPS units I bought cheaply 2nd hand.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I don’t use my UPS for my AVR on purpose. I just use the UPS as my plugs for all equipment the same way a power strip is being used.

I am not sure precisely who mentioned in my post about power cable plugs that using a UPS with legitimate pure sine wave is actually beneficial for sound quality. As it somewhat takes it off the grid.

But I see what you are saying and regenerators are probably expensive for this much power requirement, just guessing

That’s also helpful information about the UPS I was unaware of, the UPS itself is only 6 months old and the replacement battery is only 40. So at least upkeep won’t be an issue.

Pure sine UPS units are typically a bit more expensive, cheaper units produce simulated sine, Good explanation here:

What's the Difference Between Pure Sine Wave and Simulated Sine Wave?

Shopping for a UPS? Two types exist—and their respective output waveforms do have an effect on the equipment they're backing up.

blog.tripplite.com

Typically only relevant for computer power supplies, A/V stuff is usually ok with simulated sine.
I always buy 3rd party batteries - most last 3-4 years if the brand is decent enough.
My last UPS came from eBay 1500VA Pure Sine for under $80 shipped.
The same seller has this unit listed now, price isn't terrible as this is also a Pure Sine unit with new batteries and 1 year warranty.

APC UPS: 1440VA 120V SUA1500 for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for APC UPS: 1440VA 120V SUA1500 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[MacCali]

Pure sine UPS units are typically a bit more expensive, cheaper units produce simulated sine, Good explanation here:

What's the Difference Between Pure Sine Wave and Simulated Sine Wave?

Shopping for a UPS? Two types exist—and their respective output waveforms do have an effect on the equipment they're backing up.

blog.tripplite.com

Typically only relevant for computer power supplies, A/V stuff is usually ok with simulated sine.
I always buy 3rd party batteries - most last 3-4 years if the brand is decent enough.
My last UPS came from eBay 1500VA Pure Sine for under $80 shipped.
The same seller has this unit listed now, price isn't terrible as this is also a Pure Sine unit with new batteries and 1 year warranty.

APC UPS: 1440VA 120V SUA1500 for sale online | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for APC UPS: 1440VA 120V SUA1500 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Yea that’s why I got it, my pc runs about 700 watts and it’s fully overclocked, so it runs hot even though I have an excellent case and cooling capabilities. Didn’t want to compromise any issue with power outages, which we get two a year on average.

So I don’t cut corners, plus they come with warranty so that’s nice. I don’t mind APC, but I stick with CyberPower.

I got my PC only on one UPS back up power, my TV router and WiFi on the second UPS back up power. So everything will stay active in case the power goes out, safely shut down the PC and get probably 30+ mins of TV

 

[MacCali]

I have a Belkin PureAV PF60
View attachment 41165
View attachment 41166

Hmmm dude did measurements and saw no differences, not sure if it’s conditioning was a factor.

MEASUREMENTS: Belkin PureAV PF60 Power Conditioner.

A blog for audiophiles about more objective topics. Measurements of audio gear. Reasonable, realistic, no snakeoil assessment of sound, and equipment.

archimago.blogspot.com

 

[Kleinst]

I picked up a Panamax 5000 series used for a good price and I used them on my system and I have no idea if they help or hurt. Worst case they are decent surge protectors. I wouldn't take money away from your electronics or speakers to buy one necessarily but if you can find a deal on a belkin, panamax, etc. go ahead. It's another cool device for the system. I did get a whole home surge protector put in for around $450 installed to protect my equipment and appliances, etc. Was any of it necessary vs. a nice tripp lite surge protector? I have no idea.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have no use for a power conditioner....

 

[MacCali]

Furman got good ones, decent prices. I saw that Panamax too

 

[mazersteven]

That’s nice, I’ll check that out, what are you running on that?

I run my Receiver, CD Player, Subwoofers, and Internet on the Belkin

I also have a Monster Power HTS 3500 mkll
I run my TV, PlayStation, and Xbox on that

Monster HTS 3500 Home Theater Reference Power Center

Having a home theater system is a prize possession for those who can afford such luxury. When one plunges thousands of dollars into such a system, it is wise for them to have ample protection from

www.audioholics.com

 

[MacCali]

Hmmm after researching for some time, and seeing what people suggest. Why are we not into using an isolation transformer? it's far cheaper, about a 1/3 of the price, than most power conditioners.

 

[mach250]

I got this one recently, did I choose wisely?

B&H Photo Video Digital Cameras, Photography, Computers

Shop Digital Cameras, 35MM Camera Equipment, Photography, Photo Printers, Computers, Home Theater, Authorized Dealer Canon, Sony, Nikon, Apple, Olympus, Panasonic, Kodak, JBL

www.bhphotovideo.com

 

[MacCali]

I got this one recently, did I choose wisely?

B&H Photo Video Digital Cameras, Photography, Computers

Shop Digital Cameras, 35MM Camera Equipment, Photography, Photo Printers, Computers, Home Theater, Authorized Dealer Canon, Sony, Nikon, Apple, Olympus, Panasonic, Kodak, JBL

www.bhphotovideo.com

I don’t think that’s pure sine wave, it’s still simulated. I will confirm for sure, but that’s why I didn’t like APC. If I remember correctly their pure sine wave was much more expensive than Cyberpower

 

[MacCali]

This is really confusing, the power isolator has a toroidal transformer and my marantz has a toroidal transformer inside of it, why isn’t it doing anything?

15A 1800 W power isolator is 600.. my unit itself uses 630w at 13 amps. Plus subs etc this sounds like it’s super legit and makes everything else useless.