Power conditioner, Yes or No?

[Sax-Fan]

Interesting discussion, a lot of which is going over my head I'm afraid. Where I live we get occasional brown outs. I have an old Panamax that I am running everything through which acts as a power strip and surge protector, but if the lights flicker or go off and on quickly, I am still concerned about the effect on the equipment.

Would a simple and inexpensive UPS be a better bet? Would I be better off just turning off the power to everything by the Panamax switch after I am done using the system rather than leaving the receiver in stand by?

 

[pcosmic]

There are very substantial diminishing returns and a whole lot of snake oil pricing in this category. So be very careful.

If you are just using a mid or even a flagship receiver, you just need good surge protection and some voltage regulation. Something like this cyberpower unit should be enough.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00429N19W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Now, this becomes an issue when you're getting into very high end gear. For instance, i have a expensive 2 channel system (30k+ sunk into a Luxman preamp+poweramp etc). I don't usually like to talk about stuff like this on forums lest somebody accuses me of being a kool-aid drinker. But, once you get into gear like this, it is a triple edged sword. Gear like this is a super intrusive microscope into your listening experience. Any noise in your lines or suboptimal recordings will make you rip your ears off and kill your very basic enjoyment of music. When everything is right, your music can be like a spiritual experience. Other times, one can be plain miserable with their gear. I am not hallucinating when i say my music sounds like sht on this gear in the afternoon/evening and sounds spiritual after midnight. For such a significant investment on very sensitive equipment, it makes sense first to protect your investment and additionally do some house cleaning so your music sounds better different times of the day.
In my case, i use a more expensive conditioner like the following to address the above mentioned issues.
https://power-holdings-inc.com/Keces-BP2400-Balanced-Isolation-Power-Conditioner-p137036186
Would a receiver benefit from something like this? I don't think so. I know for sure my Yamaha RX-A3080 doesn't.

All the skeptics and naysayers who are yet to call me a kool-aid drinker, stop by my house and have a listen with this conditioner on/off at different times of the day and notice the difference for yourself. I'll put you on a polygraph before you run your mouth.

P.S
I also live in a part of the country with lousy power.

 

[TLS Guy]

An isolation transformer breaks the direct connection with the outside world- the toroidal transformer in your Marantz is taking the incoming voltage and changing it to voltages needed inside and that's a big difference.

There's a lot more to choosing equipment than just a few specs.

You are absolutely correct, an isolation transformer does not confer protection. An isolation transformer will pass a voltage spike, the same as a direct connection.

 

[Alex2507]

Wanted to get your opinion and thoughts if this is worth the investment.

Don't waste your money.

What is your budget?

I bought a couple of those 3500 or 3600 Monster things used. They've been great as remote on/off switches for amps. Mostly it's like a power strip with a voltmeter.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

this is my Kohler 20kWA installed with a standby panel with load-shedding for two AC condensers.
Installed on a store-bought concrete pad:

 

[MacCali]

An isolation transformer breaks the direct connection with the outside world- the toroidal transformer in your Marantz is taking the incoming voltage and changing it to voltages needed inside and that's a big difference.

There's a lot more to choosing equipment than just a few specs.

All in all I’m going to get ripped eventually lol, I’ll probably just wait until I find something OB or demo and grab that.

First and foremost we have to see what’s going on in my system power wise, fluctuations, etc before we jump into crazy expensive crap. I’m the one who uses all almost high amp equipment. I’m not going to listen to music and vacuum, hair dryer is almost never in use. My roommate is older and doesn’t even use an AC. I got an AC in my room but I actually use a 50 ft high gauge extension cord running to the living room.

It’s unfortunate that all my 20 amp dedicated jacks are all in my living room area. I have one that is not in use.

Maybe I should run an extension cord to it and use that for my AVR and subs, possibly the only thing that comes to mind to avoid wasting thousands of dollars.

I can probably get away with that isolator on the 20 amp dedicated and not have to worry about fluctuations

 

[MacCali]

Don't waste your money.

What is your budget?

I bought a couple of those 3500 or 3600 Monster things used. They've been great as remote on/off switches for amps. Mostly it's like a power strip with a voltmeter.

Man my budget is basically don’t buy a home theater in the very first place. I got no work since March and no income, waiting endlessly to get my money from UI.

But I already bought my receiver and bookshelves, so I just got a 2 channel setup.

Got an amazing deal on my Marantz so I jumped in on that, I was actually going to get a lower quality receiver budget wise.

So far I’m doing good, it’s like the bookshelves were free or compensated with the savings on the receiver.

Going to purchase my towers, center, and a subwoofer depending how much the price drops during Black Friday.

But again, got to be considerate on protecting my investment. Doesn’t makes sense to lose all the savings by being cheap. That’s why I am going to hold off on the regeneration and probably just get something that covers sags and surges to avoid any more drama

 

[cpmiller22]

Very interesting thread.

So I just bought a Denon 3600 and have a Samsung 75” TV. I hadn’t thought about power at all, and was just planning on using a cheap surge protector power strip. Do I really need something more for my setup? If so recommendations?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mazersteven]

just planning on using a cheap surge protector power strip.

Those Suck

Do I really need something more for my setup?

Isobar Surge Protector, 8 Outlet, 3840 Joules, Metal Case | Eaton

Protection for A/V components, network hardware, retail displays, appliances, power tools and other electronics against dangerous surges, spikes and line noise. 8 Outlets, 12 ft cord

www.tripplite.com

 

[MacCali]

Very interesting thread.

So I just bought a Denon 3600 and have a Samsung 75” TV. I hadn’t thought about power at all, and was just planning on using a cheap surge protector power strip. Do I really need something more for my setup? If so recommendations?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Honestly you just need something that will monitor voltage, at minimum you want something that shuts off if the voltage drops too low or too high.

I see the Panamax MR4300 has these functions and some filters for emi and rfi.

Also I see some units offer capacitors which can release power to the power hungry devices during sags which is great too. Something to consider when shopping

I’ll wait until Black Friday and see if I can spot something out which is better. I see Panamax 5xxx open box is like 500, normally 750. But I think that’s overkill. The MR4300 covers all the bases and is 300+, probably hit 200 Black Friday.

 

[MacCali]

This seems to be the bulls eye for 650, Cyberpower M1100XL. Isolation, voltage regulation and surge protection.

 

[MacCali]

Found these, even cheaper but no isolation, but do provide a variety of improvements over panamax including voltage regulation for 275-300, neglect the prices on the website as they dont reflect prices online.

AV Power Conditioners & Battery Backups | APC USA

Audio-video power protection from blackouts, voltage sags & swells, electrical noise interference and damaging power transients | APC USA

www.apc.com

 

[highfigh]

I got an AC in my room but I actually use a 50 ft high gauge extension cord running to the living room.

It’s unfortunate that all my 20 amp dedicated jacks are all in my living room area. I have one that is not in use.

Maybe I should run an extension cord to it and use that for my AVR and subs, possibly the only thing that comes to mind to avoid wasting thousands of dollars.

I can probably get away with that isolator on the 20 amp dedicated and not have to worry about fluctuations

Using an isolator doesn't eliminate fluctuations- these are 1:1 transformers, so whatever happens ahead of it happens behind it WRT voltage (in)stability. The only difference is that there's no direct connection to the grid.

 

[MacCali]

Using an isolator doesn't eliminate fluctuations- these are 1:1 transformers, so whatever happens ahead of it happens behind it WRT voltage (in)stability. The only difference is that there's no direct connection to the grid.

Well I am kind of confused? You’re saying the interference will still pass through?

The 650 for that cyber power medical UPS seems to be the best for everything, but this other one I just found from A.P.C. is a great price and provides everything you need all the way up to isolation/regeneration.

The tripp lite medical isolator isn’t bad per say, I mean it’s rated at 15A but uses a 20 amp plug or a plug specifically for dedicated outlets to be precise and 1800W which is your standard American wall plug, but it’s ~600 with no voltage regulation. You can use a regular plug adapter which comes with it but stock it’s configured to 20 amp configuration. Also on the isolator if a surge happens, your power source is isolated. From what I understood, so it does have surge protection.

Normally the A.P.C. is 449, but I see it almost every where for 275 to 300. That’s a pretty good deal considering the fact that the Panamax has no voltage regulation and only shuts off if the voltage does sag. Which isn’t bad, but it’s 349...

This is 50 to 75 cheaper, has a 5300 joule rating, and an over power protection that could guaranteed handle 330v jump for US power. For anyone that may need that, I do not.

Second to that the unit can adjust to specific volts per plug zone using the settings. So that’s also phenomenal on top of everything else it comes.

The emi/rfi is exactly the same as the Panamax as well.

So when it comes down to it this seems to be the best if you are on a budget and fully protects your system and cleans it up a little or a lot, I personally can’t distinguish what will or won’t be eliminated. This is strictly for comparison.

I mean you can’t really go wrong.

You can also remove the front face plate and put a fancy bezel on the front making it look more premium, if you’re into that sexy rack vanity.

That’s just my research into it and it seems to be an all around winner.

 

[txbonds]

Have you looked at the offerings from surgex, zero surge and brickwall?

 

[MacCali]

Have you looked at the offerings from surgex, zero surge and brickwall?

Nope didn’t even know they existed. I haven’t purchased anything yet, just looking into it.

Thoughts on those products?

 

[highfigh]

I see the Panamax MR4300 has these functions and some filters for emi and rfi.

Also I see some units offer capacitors which can release power to the power hungry devices during sags which is great too. Something to consider when shopping

I’ll wait until Black Friday and see if I can spot something out which is better. I see Panamax 5xxx open box is like 500, normally 750. But I think that’s overkill. The MR4300 covers all the bases and is 300+, probably hit 200 Black Friday.

C

Well I am kind of confused? You’re saying the interference will still pass through?

The 650 for that cyber power medical UPS seems to be the best for everything, but this other one I just found from A.P.C. is a great price and provides everything you need all the way up to isolation/regeneration.

This is 50 to 75 cheaper, has a 5300 joule rating, and an over power protection that could guaranteed handle 330v jump for US power. For anyone that may need that, I do not.

Second to that the unit can adjust to specific volts per plug zone using the settings. So that’s also phenomenal on top of everything else it comes.

The emi/rfi is exactly the same as the Panamax as well.

So when it comes down to it this seems to be the best if you are on a budget and fully protects your system and cleans it up a little or a lot, I personally can’t distinguish what will or won’t be eliminated. This is strictly for comparison.

I mean you can’t really go wrong.

You can also remove the front face plate and put a fancy bezel on the front making it look more premium, if you’re into that sexy rack vanity.

That’s just my research into it and it seems to be an all around winner.

An isolation transformer isn't a filter, it uses the magnetic field created by the primary winding to induce current in the secondary winding. Any voltage components on the primary will show up in the secondary to the extent possible, within the frequency limits imposed by the electrical characteristics of the transformer.

Capacitors on AC are used as filters, caps on DC are used as filters, with limited ability to 'stiffen' the supply voltage but on an AC line, they don't do anything to maintain voltage, AFAIK. It would be best to look at the circuitry to determine how these are used in the piece you're considering.

If the area around the equipment is exposed to EMI to the extent believed, it's not going to be stopped by a little circuit inside of a box.

 

[txbonds]

I have the Surgex XR-315 but it’s on the pricey side. They all 3 use similar technology. But you can get some of their offerings for pretty reasonable pricing, and much less than the Panamax units you posted.

This may or may not matter to you but all 3 of these brands are made in USA. Panamax and Furman are made in China.

I tried multiple Furman DM15 units before finding the above 3. The Furman units I received all had problems right out of the box, including non working ammeters, rusted cases, etc. may be bad luck on my part but was glad to find the other options.

google them, read up on the approach to surge elimination they use and then make your own call. Google “surgex videos” for bunch of demos too. here is a good one: Surgex vs Standard UPS

Good luck either way you go.

Nope didn’t even know they existed. I haven’t purchased anything yet, just looking into it.

Thoughts on those products?

 

[highfigh]

The 650 for that cyber power medical UPS seems to be the best for everything, but this other one I just found from A.P.C. is a great price and provides everything you need all the way up to isolation/regeneration.

The tripp lite medical isolator isn’t bad per say, I mean it’s rated at 15A but uses a 20 amp plug or a plug specifically for dedicated outlets to be precise and 1800W which is your standard American wall plug, but it’s ~600 with no voltage regulation. You can use a regular plug adapter which comes with it but stock it’s configured to 20 amp configuration. Also on the isolator if a surge happens, your power source is isolated. From what I understood, so it does have surge protection.

Normally the A.P.C. is 449, but I see it almost every where for 275 to 300. That’s a pretty good deal considering the fact that the Panamax has no voltage regulation and only shuts off if the voltage does sag. Which isn’t bad, but it’s 349...

This is 50 to 75 cheaper, has a 5300 joule rating, and an over power protection that could guaranteed handle 330v jump for US power. For anyone that may need that, I do not.

Second to that the unit can adjust to specific volts per plug zone using the settings. So that’s also phenomenal on top of everything else it comes.

The emi/rfi is exactly the same as the Panamax as well.

So when it comes down to it this seems to be the best if you are on a budget and fully protects your system and cleans it up a little or a lot, I personally can’t distinguish what will or won’t be eliminated. This is strictly for comparison.

I mean you can’t really go wrong.

You can also remove the front face plate and put a fancy bezel on the front making it look more premium, if you’re into that sexy rack vanity.

That’s just my research into it and it seems to be an all around winner.

A surge protector is not the same as a regulator.

You need to know what's happening on your AC service before looking for anything WRT power. Without knowing this, all you can do is guess.

Putting a fancy anything on the face does nothing to help anything- these should be chosen based on need, not cosmetics. As they used to say when taking about cars- "If it don't go, chrome it".

 

[highfigh]

I have the Surgex XR-315 but it’s on the pricey side. They all 3 use similar technology. But you can get some of their offerings for pretty reasonable pricing, and much less than the Panamax units you posted.

This may or may not matter to you but all 3 of these brands are made in USA. Panamax and Furman are made in China.

I tried multiple Furman DM15 units before finding the above 3. The Furman units I received all had problems right out of the box, including non working ammeters, rusted cases, etc. may be bad luck on my part but was glad to find the other options.

google them, read up on the approach to surge elimination they use and then make your own call. Google “surgex videos” for bunch of demos too. Good luck either way.

Bad meters, rusted cases...did you buy these from a disaster recovery company? Furman would never intentionally sell something that was defective or rusted.