Power conditioner, Yes or No?

[txbonds]

Bad meters, rusted cases...did you buy these from a disaster recovery company? Furman would never intentionally sell something that was defective or rusted.

bought new in sealed box from a Furman authorized dealer. They took both back without question.

here was one of them. Whole case rusted but this corner shot speaks for itself. I can’t find the picture of the Ammeter but basically it never changed from a zero reading.

 

[MacCali]

A surge protector is not the same as a regulator.

You need to know what's happening on your AC service before looking for anything WRT power. Without knowing this, all you can do is guess.

Putting a fancy anything on the face does nothing to help anything- these should be chosen based on need, not cosmetics. As they used to say when taking about cars- "If it don't go, chrome it".

Correct, but this unit to my understanding is using the battery in the same way I assume a capacitor would work, modify any sags. Over voltage isn't a factor for me, and even if it is I got full coverage with this unit if I purchase it.

I mean I am providing you with the information, you can check it out yourself and provide your knowledgeable feedback. When it comes to home theater in general I dont know much. I just barely got into the idea in april and bought my first equipment and speakers less than 6 weeks ago lol.

I am just trying to see what works best, do you have any products to suggest or as I said feel free to take a look at the I mentioned APC H15BLK is the model number.

The rest are much easier to figure out and what they are capable of doing. Panamax is just a voltage reader and shut off switch with some filtration. How it does it and now knowing it comes from china is probably weak and cheap.

So I am just recanting my previous statements in hopes of swaying them away from my ignorance at that time lol As you can see I have a daisy chain of comments that are linked and hoping to finally reach the most reasonable conclusion, which can definitely also be incorrect. -_-

Again, first point came off as why we going to spend 1000's on regens etc when you can use an Isolator, then I find out that isolation is merely part of it. Voltage regulation plays a pretty significant role is quality sound, so that is why you want a regenerator. Finding a regenerator that's normal and sufficient is nearly impossibly on my budget so now we need to change out some variables to adjust the price, the question is what is best to take out and what is best to keep.

And possibly most importantly I mentioned earlier I do not really now how my voltage fluctuates. It could all merely be overkill, so if I was to invest I wish to do so wisely. That's why I try not to rush into anything and take my time to understand better for myself and anyone else in the future who I can relay the message too.

 

[highfigh]

bought new in sealed box from a Furman authorized dealer. They took both back without question.

here was one of them. Whole case rusted but this corner shot speaks for itself. I can’t find the picture of the Ammeter but basically it never changed from a zero reading.
View attachment 41239

I can't remember the last time I opened a piece of electronics like this without finding a silica gel pack and even without it, the bag and taped box should have protected it from normal levels of humidity. This is painted- there's no way that was stored properly. I think that was a used piece and the only reason they took it back freely is because they would have been in trouble for selling used equipment as new, if you had exposed them for it.

 

[txbonds]

Correct, but this unit to my understanding is using the battery in the same way I assume a capacitor would work, modify any sags. Over voltage isn't a factor for me, and even if it is I got full coverage with this unit if I purchase it.

I mean I am providing you with the information, you can check it out yourself and provide your knowledgeable feedback. When it comes to home theater in general I dont know much. I just barely got into the idea in april and bought my first equipment and speakers less than 6 weeks ago lol.

I am just trying to see what works best, do you have any products to suggest or as I said feel free to take a look at the I mentioned APC H15BLK is the model number.

The rest are much easier to figure out and what they are capable of doing. Panamax is just a voltage reader and shut off switch with some filtration. How it does it and now knowing it comes from china is probably weak and cheap.

So I am just recanting my previous statements in hopes of swaying them away from my ignorance at that time lol As you can see I have a daisy chain of comments that are linked and hoping to finally reach the most reasonable conclusion, which can definitely also be incorrect. -_-

Again, first point came off as why we going to spend 1000's on regens etc when you can use an Isolator, then I find out that isolation is merely part of it. Voltage regulation plays a pretty significant role is quality sound, so that is why you want a regenerator. Finding a regenerator that's normal and sufficient is nearly impossibly on my budget so now we need to change out some variables to adjust the price, the question is what is best to take out and what is best to keep.

And possibly most importantly I mentioned earlier I do not really now how my voltage fluctuates. It could all merely be overkill, so if I was to invest I wish to do so wisely. That's why I try not to rush into anything and take my time to understand better for myself and anyone else in the future who I can relay the message too.

Watch the video I linked in my above post. The unit they blew up and made smoke looks like an APC unit to me. They don't disclose the brand but the front panel sure looks like it. Not saying Surgex is the right choice for your needs, but they cover a lot of information on what makes the tech in the Surgex, Zero Surge and Brickwall units survive a large surge when the UPS unit (that looks like an APC) did not. (maybe I'm talking about apples here while you guys are talking about oranges though) LOL

 

[txbonds]

I can't remember the last time I opened a piece of electronics like this without finding a silica gel pack and even without it, the bag and taped box should have protected it from normal levels of humidity. This is painted- there's no way that was stored properly. I think that was a used piece and the only reason they took it back freely is because they would have been in trouble for selling used equipment as new, if you had exposed them for it.

No clue, as again they were one of the listed Authorized Resellers. Someone from right here on this list: https://www.furmanpower.com/connect/where-buy I'm not going to out the store and I never brought it up when it happened a few months ago, but it was a pain to deal with 2 bad units in a row. The units were all still sealed in the box, with plastic wrap on the units, the cords were tied with plastic caps on the plug, and nothing about the units said they were used or opened. If they were used, they did a heck of a job hiding it.

Not sure why you are defending the brand so staunchly, and I even said maybe I just got really unlucky, but the experience turned me off of the brand for a 3rd try. If you work there or something and want to contact me in an official capacity for more information, I'll be happy to share, but I'm not going to trash the store in question since I have no reason to believe they were not new units as advertised. I'm not telling anyone else not to buy them, but sharing information I learned about some competitors because of the experience. YMMV. Regards.

 

[highfigh]

No clue, as again they were one of the listed Authorized Resellers. Someone from right here on this list: https://www.furmanpower.com/connect/where-buy I'm not going to out the store and I never brought it up when it happened a few months ago, but it was a pain to deal with 2 bad units in a row. The units were all still sealed in the box, with plastic wrap on the units, the cords were tied with plastic caps on the plug, and nothing about the units said they were used or opened. If they were used, they did a heck of a job hiding it.

Not sure why you are defending the brand so staunchly, and I even said maybe I just got really unlucky, but the experience turned me off of the brand for a 3rd try. If you work there or something and want to contact me in an official capacity for more information, I'll be happy to share, but I'm not going to trash the store in question since I have no reason to believe they were not new units as advertised. I'm not telling anyone else not to buy them, but sharing information I learned about some competitors because of the experience. YMMV. Regards.

Are they authorized by Furman to buy their products new, or are they a reseller after it has been returned. If the price is steeply discounted, I would bet they're the latter because most manufacturers have MAP and UAP pricing. I have sold, unpacked, shipped and displayed audio/video equipment for over 45 years (at first, for a music store and later, for a stereo shops/custom integrators), then in business for myself and have never seen new equipment that was damaged in this way. Don't underestimate the efforts of a dealer to sell something that kind of looks 'like new' but nobody with any integrity would have shipped it if they knew about the rust. That said, I'm sure you have read about people who used and damaged something, then returned it because of a 'no questions asked' return policy.

 

[highfigh]

Correct, but this unit to my understanding is using the battery in the same way I assume a capacitor would work, modify any sags. Over voltage isn't a factor for me, and even if it is I got full coverage with this unit if I purchase it.

I mean I am providing you with the information, you can check it out yourself and provide your knowledgeable feedback. When it comes to home theater in general I dont know much. I just barely got into the idea in april and bought my first equipment and speakers less than 6 weeks ago lol.

I am just trying to see what works best, do you have any products to suggest or as I said feel free to take a look at the I mentioned APC H15BLK is the model number.

The rest are much easier to figure out and what they are capable of doing. Panamax is just a voltage reader and shut off switch with some filtration. How it does it and now knowing it comes from china is probably weak and cheap.

So I am just recanting my previous statements in hopes of swaying them away from my ignorance at that time lol As you can see I have a daisy chain of comments that are linked and hoping to finally reach the most reasonable conclusion, which can definitely also be incorrect. -_-

Again, first point came off as why we going to spend 1000's on regens etc when you can use an Isolator, then I find out that isolation is merely part of it. Voltage regulation plays a pretty significant role is quality sound, so that is why you want a regenerator. Finding a regenerator that's normal and sufficient is nearly impossibly on my budget so now we need to change out some variables to adjust the price, the question is what is best to take out and what is best to keep.

And possibly most importantly I mentioned earlier I do not really now how my voltage fluctuates. It could all merely be overkill, so if I was to invest I wish to do so wisely. That's why I try not to rush into anything and take my time to understand better for myself and anyone else in the future who I can relay the message too.

A UPS is a battery backup for interruptions and safe shutdown, not for heavy current demand. The battery is for the internal power supply, not as the main power source. The caps inside are used to 'stiffen' the supply because heavy demand would deplete the little battery inside in a very short time.

 

[txbonds]

Are they authorized by Furman to buy their products new, or are they a reseller after it has been returned. If the price is steeply discounted, I would bet they're the latter because most manufacturers have MAP and UAP pricing. I have sold, unpacked, shipped and displayed audio/video equipment for over 45 years (at first, for a music store and later, for a stereo shops/custom integrators), then in business for myself and have never seen new equipment that was damaged in this way. Don't underestimate the efforts of a dealer to sell something that kind of looks 'like new' but nobody with any integrity would have shipped it if they knew about the rust. That said, I'm sure you have read about people who used and damaged something, then returned it because of a 'no questions asked' return policy.

I don't know what else to tell you. Maybe they dropped the QC ball on a couple of units. Honestly, I seriously doubt they inspect every single unit made in China before it's boxed and shipped over on a boat/plane to be sold via their distributors. Sometimes companies have bad runs or anomalies.

The dealer was one of the 10 listed as an authorized retailer. The big logo section where the likes of Crutchfield, Magnolia, Gramophone, Safe and Sound, etc. are listed. My take is that these are authorized retailers selling new equipment. I'd be surprised if one of these mainstream vendors were selling returned, refurbished or damaged items knowingly without disclosing it.

The boxes were both crisp, new, with no torn cardboard, original tape with no cuts or pieces reapplied, etc. The units were packaged in plastic bag wraps with silica packages inside and original packing materials. The cords were wrapped into original bends with ties and had the plastic plug covers on the end. The manuals were in original plastic packing with no tears or issues. Unless Furman is providing these dealers with replacement original packaging to repack returns to look like new, there just isn't a way for them to recycle these boxes without a hint of having been previously shipped before.

Again, regardless of your prior experience, my position is that these were two flawed units received new out of the box. The vendor offered to send a 3rd but I declined and they promptly refunded my money and provided return shipping labels. The 3rd one may have been perfect, who knows, but it didn't instill confidence in the brand for me, so I declined and moved on.

Either way, to each their own. I'm only offering some alternative brands to consider and sharing my specific experience.

 

[lovinthehd]

Very interesting thread.

So I just bought a Denon 3600 and have a Samsung 75” TV. I hadn’t thought about power at all, and was just planning on using a cheap surge protector power strip. Do I really need something more for my setup? If so recommendations?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Probably not. If you want surge protection the best way to go about it is a whole home surge protector. Do you have power issues where you live? I've never lived in such an area myself.

 

[MacCali]

A UPS is a battery backup for interruptions and safe shutdown, not for heavy current demand. The battery is for the internal power supply, not as the main power source. The caps inside are used to 'stiffen' the supply because heavy demand would deplete the little battery inside in a very short time.

Hmmm I see, well then my question would be how is it regulating the voltage? Where is the extra juice coming from because obviously I assumed it’s coming from the battery in conjunction with the power grid.

Clearly I am unaware how voltage regulation works. Just see that some units don’t have a battery, but use a capacitor to get the voltage correct. Which may be incorrect, again just what I thought.

 

[Joe B]

@MacCali,
Have you ever looked into the Isotek line of power conditioning?

 

[MacCali]

Watch the video I linked in my above post. The unit they blew up and made smoke looks like an APC unit to me. They don't disclose the brand but the front panel sure looks like it. Not saying Surgex is the right choice for your needs, but they cover a lot of information on what makes the tech in the Surgex, Zero Surge and Brickwall units survive a large surge when the UPS unit (that looks like an APC) did not. (maybe I'm talking about apples here while you guys are talking about oranges though) LOL

Hmmmm I don’t know, if you buy the wrong amount of Va and watts the unit supports your unit switches it can blow up as well. I mean this unit is specific for AVR’s and Amps, my avr is 630 watts peak power consumption, generally 1500va is 900w, maybe 800 watts at the least.

Peak current amps is 160,000A

 

[MacCali]

@MacCali,
Have you ever looked into the Isotek line of power conditioning?

Yes, I am fully aware of those, and they are pretty pricey as well and not sure what they offer.

But like I said it’s basically what it provides and how much the product costs. Those products may significantly reduce emi/rfi at a really high cost in comparison id rather pay 6 times less for 50% of what that 2000 dollar unit would provide.

 

[Joe B]

Yes, I am fully aware of those, and they are pretty pricey as well and not sure what they offer.

????????????????

 

[lovinthehd]

Yes, I am fully aware of those, and they are pretty pricey as well and not sure what they offer.

But like I said it’s basically what it provides and how much the product costs. Those products may significantly reduce emi/rfi at a really high cost in comparison id rather pay 6 times less for 50% of what that 2000 dollar unit would provide.

Is emi/rfi a particular problem in your house?

 

[MacCali]

????????????????

Like what features it has, what it provides. But it’s 2,000 and I can’t afford that currently

 

[MacCali]

Is emi/rfi a particular problem in your house?

Honestly I got no idea, but I am just trying to get the best performance out of my system and safeguard it as well.

 

[lovinthehd]

Honestly I got no idea, but I am just trying to get the best performance out of my system and safeguard it as well.

Concentrate on reality....you seem to be diving into the bullshit side of audio

 

[mazersteven]

you seem to be diving into the bullshit side of audio

 

[MacCali]

Concentrate on reality....you seem to be diving into the bullshit side of audio

It is a suggestion made by Gene as well, so I don’t think it’s very far fetched. I’m not talking about power conditioning only. But voltage regulation is crucial.

I mean all I am doing is asking questions and researching.

I haven’t bought anything yet, so I haven’t fallen into the rabbit hole quite yet lol