B

bigkrazy155

Audioholic
I do not understand the bashing of our healthcare system outside of cost, especially drug costs. Phrases like "paying more for less" and "no better outcome" are objectively not true. The US is far and away the world leader in medical innovation, which benefits the entire world. Unfortunately, that comes at a cost.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
We do pay more for less, by a plethora of metrics.

I work in the healthcare system, so have an intimate knowledge of it's shortcomings. And no, I don't drive a BMW.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
We do pay more for less, by a plethora of metrics.

I work in the healthcare system, so have an intimate knowledge of it's shortcomings. And no, I don't drive a BMW.
I agree, we pay too much. I think that's because we have not legislated very many guard rails to ensure fair and open pricing, and it is arguable (at least IMO) that special patent law may be necessary for drug companies.

No BMW? So you're a Porsche guy? ;-)
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
I agree, we pay too much. I think that's because we have not legislated very many guard rails to ensure fair and open pricing, and it is arguable (at least IMO) that special patent law may be necessary for drug companies.

No BMW? So you're a Porsche guy? ;-)
nah, he's a Yugo kinda guy ..........
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Did you even read what I replied to?

Besides, I've been following this thread and do think some of your posts are just dumb. For some reason you hate universal health care (shown in this thread as well as others) using specious arguments as to why it can not work down to "socialist bullshit", "stupid", "scam", "Queen Elisabeth", "Comrade Bernie" and so forth. It is a little tiresome, to be honest.
Trell, he is well off financially and doesn't care about anybody else but himself. Typical narcissist. Ignore his posts.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
Disney Dwarf is well off financially and doesn't care about anybody else but himself. Typical narcissist. Ignore his posts. This is worth a double-post.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
after looking back over this thread I'm wondering why none of the 'lefties' have not acknowledged (even once) the role of ones 'personal responsibility' in the grand scheme of health care. You know, proper diet, exercise, etc. Obesity along with tobacco contributes to many if not most of our health maladies yet both obesity and tobacco are for the most part self induced. So, if one self destructs, my tax dollars should support this ..............
It's good to know that all the 'righties' (whatever that is) out there are doing it right. I didn't know that was a requirement to be a Republican.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Disney Dwarf is well off financially and doesn't care about anybody else but himself. Typical narcissist. Ignore his posts. This is worth a double-post.
This is so inane I'm not sure how to respond. So any market-economy capitalist who believes in personal accountability and responsibility cares about no one but themselves? That's ridiculous. As for being a narcissist, do you even know the definition? The dwarf already has a name, it's Grumpy.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
No thanks. Not today, not any day.

I've heard this story before. You see that small group of people over there? They're responsible for your lot in life. If we just confiscate their wealth, force them to break up and sell off their businesses, demonize them in the popular press and with propaganda, and if you support me I'll make sure you get what you deserve and they'll pay for it. I'm just fighting for you. [puke]

And that ill-conceived wealth tax to fund it all. So the minute it would pass Congress and she signs it the value of the US equity markets and much of the real estate that the tax would be applied to would go down by, the consensus is, about 25%, I think a lot more. The wealthy would probably stop buying assets in the target markets, so the valuations come in lower. Remember, there are much less than 1,000 billionaires in the US to tax, so conspiracies are practical. That means the revenues from the wealth tax would go down, but the cost of the promised programs wouldn't, so then there'd be a massive deficit which would have to funded, or massive inflation. Assuming Warren doesn't want inflation to reduce her own wealth, the tax base would have to be broadened, probably to include every old geezer with more than a million dollars in assets, which might mean you, because after the top 0.01% old geezers hold most of the country's wealth. And with good reason, they've had a lifetime to save for retirement. Remember, there are trillions in 401K and IRA accounts to tax, and most Americans don't have a million dollars. I can hear the arguments already.

Then there's the valuation problem with the wealth tax. The wealthy would hire massive numbers of highly-paid brilliant people to find workarounds to the new tax or lower valuations, while the government would be arguing back with the more typical GS-14s and GS-15s they are allowed to hire. It would be like bringing butter knives to a gun fight. How many here have been successful arguing against real estate valuations for property taxes and won? It is not difficult, and real estate valuation is simple by comparison to wealth in total.

And all of that health care you think you're getting for free? Well, get in line. A lot of doctors are likely to ignore the system, like they do now with Medicare, and go into concierge medicine. Meaning, they don't take insurance, because they want more for their services than Medicare pays, and Medicare rates are built into the assumptions of the Medicare For All plan. Or are we going to make independence illegal? And those hospitals you need to get treated by, some large fraction, certainly more than 25%, go out of business, and the ones that die are mostly in rural areas. And all of those new drugs you like? The Medicare For All bill includes provisions for the government to dictate prices and, if the drug companies refuse, the patents can be confiscated, licensed to competitors, the renumeration to the inventing company is determined by a government-appointed court, and the inventor has to provide research materials about the drugs to the licensees. So why would pharmaceutical industry investment stay high? I think it'll fall precipitously. I wouldn't invest.

The richest family in the country, probably the world, is the Walton family, poster children for unearned wealth. Their total net worth is about $200 billion. Confiscate it all and you still have only, what, $30 trillion or so to go? And that's just for Medicare for All.
I hope now you understand why I say you voted Trump into office even if you haven't circled his name on a piece of paper. Also why you're the only person on this forum I find better to ignore.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
I hope now you understand why I say you voted Trump into office even if you haven't circled his name on a piece of paper. Also why you're the only person on this forum I find better to ignore.
Our Croatian communist chimes in. And how am I to understand that I voted in Trump while voting for Clinton? That's stupid. As for being the only person on this forum you ignore, which I'll wear as a badge of honor, how are you ignoring me and responding at the same time?
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
It's good to know that all the 'righties' (whatever that is) out there are doing it right. I didn't know that was a requirement to be a Republican.
LOL, like you don't know right from left. Just because someone is right of center does not automatically make them Republican as does being left automatically deem you Democrat. I would hope you have the ability to think 'Independently' and are not 'Party Bound' .

Regarding what health care insurance / plan I favor, Deductible / HSA. As I said before, responsibility starts with the individual, both physically and financially.

Do areas of our Healthcare need reform, of course, it's been brought out numerous times in this thread but a 'make believe' Medicare for All is not the way to go about it IMO.
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
"As for being a narcissist, do you even know the definition?"

It's apparent you don't.
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
"As for being a narcissist, do you even know the definition?"

It's apparent you don't.
Actually I do, and simply not agreeing with you and having counter-arguments to your political statements does not make me a narcissist.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Did you even read what I replied to?

Besides, I've been following this thread and do think some of your posts are just dumb. For some reason you hate universal health care (shown in this thread as well as others) using specious arguments as to why it can not work down to "socialist bullshit", "stupid", "scam", "Queen Elisabeth", "Comrade Bernie" and so forth. It is a little tiresome, to be honest.
If more people were able to pay into the system, it would work much better but after receiving benefits for a long time, the motivation to get a job/better job leaves. While I understand that people just become burnt out from being in a bad position in life, I have to point out that many others come here from worse situations and are able to reach much better lives. People from desolate places can do extremely well here because of the opportunities but the saying "Half of success comes just from showing up" is very true.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Warren and Sanders are also trying hard to convince people that all you have to do is make billionaires, who are only that rich because they are either crooks or taking advantage of others, pay for everything. Their bogus strategy is postponing the time we discuss real solutions, because they've promised the children unlimited toys for free.
Yabbut, class warfare.......
 
Out-Of-Phase

Out-Of-Phase

Audioholic General
It's incredible how some people here think that if people live healthy* lifestyles they will never have a need for healthcare. All or nothing thinking.

(*define healthy)
 
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