The SEPARATES vs. AVR Thread

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Pogre reacted to this post, in which I must confess I lied. My HT system now includes a Marantz AVR functioning as a pre-pro. So much for "no way".

So the AVR is for your HT system. Do you have another system?

 

[Irvrobinson]

So the AVR is for your HT system. Do you have another system?

Actually, two other systems. One is a dedicated music system, and the other is my desktop computer set-up. The dedicated music system uses a Benchmark DAC3L as a DAC/pre-amp, and the two sources are a CD transport (a Tascam) and a Bluetooth receiver I use for streaming on Amazon and Sirius. The Bluetooth thing is used much akin to what I used to use an FM tuner for - casual listening when I'm really doing something else.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Actually, two other systems. One is a dedicated music system, and the other is my desktop computer set-up. The dedicated music system uses a Benchmark DAC3L as a DAC/pre-amp, and the two sources are a CD transport (a Tascam) and a Bluetooth receiver I use to for streaming on Amazon and Sirius. The Bluetooth thing is used much akin to what I used to use an FM tuner for - casual listening when I'm really doing something else.

So your primary system consists of separates (preamp/amp, etc.).

But your secondary system consists of AVR.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

One is a dedicated music system, and the other is my desktop computer set-up.

What type of speakers do you use for your desktop system?

 

[Irvrobinson]

So your primary system consists of separates (preamp/amp, etc.).

But your secondary system consists of AVR.

The HT system is not really secondary, it is our primary HT system, though we never use it for music only. The AVR is used as a pre-pro. I don't use any of the AVR's amplifier channels. An ATI AT602 amplifier drives the speakers, and the HT system does not use a sub.

 

[Irvrobinson]

What type of speakers do you use for your desktop system?

My personal desktop system, which also serves as an HT system when I have a work apartment, consists of a pair of Audioengine 5+ powered speakers with an SVS SB1000 subwoofer. My wife's desktop system, which she uses mostly for teleconferencing and drum corps videos, is a pair of Audioengine 2+ powered speakers. The 2+ speakers are especially impressive for their tiny size, though I suspect they would not mate well with a large subwoofer, since they use 3.5" woofers.

 

[3db]

I can honestly say that adding a seperate power amp in anyon eof my setups will NOT improve upon the sound. My AVRs are loafing even when hitting low to mid 90s becuase my rooms are so small. I normally cant listen to it that loud as I live in a townhouse now and I'm sure I would make some neighbours angry.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

My personal desktop system, which also serves as an HT system when I have a work apartment, consists of a pair of Audioengine 5+ powered speakers with an SVS SB1000 subwoofer. My wife's desktop system, which she uses mostly for teleconferencing and drum corps videos, is a pair of Audioengine 2+ powered speakers. The 2+ speakers are especially impressive for their tiny size, though I suspect they would not mate well with a large subwoofer, since they use 3.5" woofers.

Very nice. I've been looking for desktop speakers for a while just trying to get some ideas. Besides the Audioengine speakers you mentioned, another model of speakers on my list is the JBL LSR308.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Very nice. I've been looking for desktop speakers for a while just trying to get some ideas. Besides the Audioengine speakers you mentioned, another model of speakers on my list is the JBL LSR308.

The LSR308 is a significantly larger speaker, with an 8" woofer versus the 5" woofer in the AE 5+. Maybe better if you have the space on your desktop. The 5+ has the advantage of more flexible inputs and outputs, and makes adding a powered sub very simple. I remember liking the sound of the 5+ the best of the speakers I auditioned at the time, but I purchased them in 2014, so my memory of the process is a bit hazy. If I was doing it all over again I might choose the JBLs, since I probably wouldn't need the SVS sub with my content preferences.

Edit: one more advantage I just remembered liking on the 5+ for use as my apartment HT system - it has a remote volume control. Very useful for when I wasn't sitting at the desk.

 

[Out-Of-Phase]

Thank you. I should have mentioned the JBL LSR305 as well. I believe that model is more popular than the 308.

 

[Pogre]

Pogre reacted to this post, in which I must confess I lied. My HT system now includes a Marantz AVR functioning as a pre-pro. So much for "no way".

I reacted because I think even tho I don't have the same aversion to AVRs you do, you give very sound reasoning and I can see your point. It was well put.

 

[VonMagnum]

Four of my Marantz channels ultimately go to power amps, but it has more to do with dialog lift and 'Scatmos' channel extraction than sound quality. Another six speakers are powered externally as well from preouts, but those are matrixed array speakers for surround#1 and front wides.

Upstairs, however, I use pre-pro analog (Carver C-5 Sonic Holography preamp with motorized volume control for the remote) with custom active crossovers and two 350W (into 4 ohms)Carver TFM-35x amps for my Carver Amazing ribbon speakers.

I had no real choice for those power levels, let alone Sonic Holography, which I still think sounds awesome this day, although my new 6-channel matrixed stereo downstairs (that simulates giant driver arrays and cancels height and side reflections and brings slightly delayed reverb arrivals simulates the Carver ribbon line arrays and dipole arrivals better than I imagined) actually rivals the sound upstairs now. But upstairs I don't even need room correction to get almost very flat bass (awesome room). It's already +/- 2.5dB from 26Hz to 100Hz. Downstairs it's +/- 1.5dB from 20Hz-90Hz (+/- 3.5dB above that), but that's with Audyssey enabled.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The reason for buying a Ferrari has FAR FAR FAR less to do with performance than the rest of the car. If you need an analogy, why buy an original Van Gogh when you can buy a computer generated copy, accurate to the nano, for next to nothing? Because one is a Van Gogh and one isn’t. To each his own.

Are expensive Integrated Amps, Preamps, Amps, and Pre-pros kind of like Ferrari and Van Gogh?

 

[VonMagnum]

Are expensive Integrated Amps, Preamps, Amps, and Pre-pros kind of like Ferrari and Van Gogh?

It's only like Van Gogh if you cut off a tweeter and mail it to your girlfriend....

 

[Bucknekked]

The reason for buying a Ferrari has FAR FAR FAR less to do with performance than the rest of the car. If you need an analogy, why buy an original Van Gogh when you can buy a computer generated copy, accurate to the nano, for next to nothing? Because one is a Van Gogh and one isn’t. To each his own.

I agree with the sentiment of your post. Most luxury items have less to do with their function than the cachet of the brand and other intangibles. Luxury items definitely bring some joy to their owners regardless of the cost.
Those luxuries I can afford: I love 'em. Where I can't afford them, I just enjoy what I have. There's room for everybody.

 

[PENG]

Are expensive Integrated Amps, Preamps, Amps, and Pre-pros kind of like Ferrari and Van Gogh?

Ferrari has faster slew rate that can be felt, not expensive int amps.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Well as of today, the polls are dead even: 50%/50% - 29 votes for Separates, 29 votes for AVRs (if we look at flagship AVRs).

 

[Bucknekked]

I went ahead and pissed in the campfire. changed the total

 

[PENG]

If we include integrated amps sold in Japan, ranked by $ per Watt, Luxman's and Denon's seem to be on top, what are the other brands that make expensive integrated on $/Watt basis?

For real separates, I know sky is the limit, like Bugatti, Lamborghini, Aston Martin etc.

Even if we ignore their much lower price points/brackets in general, I am not really sure integrated amps should be considered separates.

They are like SUVs, automobiles that are neither sports nor utilities.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If we include integrated amps sold in Japan, ranked by $ per Watt, Luxman's and Denon's seem to be on top, what are the other brands that make expensive integrated on $/Watt basis?

For real separates, I know sky is the limit, like Bugatti, Lamborghini, Aston Martin etc.

Even if we ignore their much lower price points/brackets in general, I am not really sure integrated amps should be considered separates.

They are like SUVs, automobiles that are neither sports nor utilities.

Luxman, Yamaha, and Marantz all have $8,000 (or more MSRP) Integrated Amps these days. The MSRP definitely helps their status of being "Separates".

I really don't get these $8K integrated amps. I have a friend who owns $2K speakers and wants an $8K Luxman Integrated Amp.