I'm so angry with the U.S. and Chinese governments right now!

[Irvrobinson]

Exactly my thoughts. I mean how dare people believe in that. Did they see the orange fat man go after company after company for personal reasons? Harley Davidson, Amazon, and many others. He is a joke.

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You're mixing issues. Trump is being a jackass in those two cases, especially the nonsense about the Postal Service delivering packages below cost. (That's actually illegal, and the Postal authorities would be guilty of a crime for negotiating it.) My contention is still that Sanders and Warren are just classic socialists. Companies remain private, but they have taxation and "social responsibilities" that make them wards of the state.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Ok, you show me enough politicians that actually believe to make that a reality. The country will never be anything other than a capitalist system.
I believe in corporations paying their fare share but with that tax bill from last year we are never getting anything close to that.

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I'm amused by "fair share" bullshit. That's just code for "You should pay more so I can pay less, and bring you down a little closer to my circumstances". Is it really someone's "fair share" to have a total incremental income tax rate of about 75%, as Bernie proposes for some citizens of California, New York, and Oregon? As for corporations, there isn't a fair share, there's a competitive tax rate. If US corporate taxes are too high they move operations to lower-tax countries, like Ireland. Also, governments bid for corporate investments all the time, as they did with Amazon. The same is true for countries. Why do you think a good part of the Boeing 787 is made in Japan (like the wings)? Or why Intel has two chip fabrication plants in Israel?

 

[Hetfield]

I'm amused by "fair share" bullshit. That's just code for "You should pay more so I can pay less, and bring you down a little closer to my circumstances". It is really someone's "fair share" to have a total incremental income tax rate of about 75%, as Bernie proposes for the citizens of California, New York, and Oregon? As for corporations, there isn't a fair share, there's a competitive tax rate. If US corporate taxes are too high they move operations to lower-tax countries, like Ireland. Also, governments bid for corporate investments all the time, as they did with Amazon. The same is true for countries. Why do you think a good part of the Boeing 777 is made in Japan (like the wings)? Or why Intel has two chip fabrication plants in Israel?

Yeah ok, very funny. I know corporations should just be allowed to do whatever they want. Let's just have no taxes on corporations. There is a such thing as far share.
Look at that miserable tax bill from last year. What a joke. Kill the middle class again and cut taxes enormously for the rich and corporations. Here peasant, here is 50 cents a week and the rich get millions in cuts. That is what the fake populist have us.
It's not like that piece garbage said ya know what the rich can have a giant tax cut but we are gonna do the middle class a solid and raise the social security threshold to a half a million to stabilize the system. No, he gave just giant tax cuts for the rich and nothing else.

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[ellisr63]

He should have expelled Foxnews from any kind of media access as much as possible. I mean, if Foxnews is allowed, why wouldn't he just allow Stormfront at that point?

I seem to recall him saying a while back that FOX News was the Official news of the White House, and the other news stations were all fake news.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yeah ok, very funny. I know corporations should just be allowed to do whatever they want. Let's just have no taxes on corporations. There is a such thing as far share.
Look at that miserable tax bill from last year. What a joke. Kill the middle class again and cut taxes enormously for the rich and corporations. Here peasant, here is 50 cents a week and the rich get millions in cuts. That is what the fake populist have us.
It's not like that piece garbage said ya know what the rich can have a giant tax cut but we are gonna do the middle class a solid and raise the social security threshold to a half a million to stabilize the system. No, he gave just giant tax cuts for the rich and nothing else.

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I'm not arguing that the Republican tax bill was good policy; I'm not in the middle class by any means and I'm getting a fat tax increase, as are lots of wage earners in high tax states. And that carried interest deduction for the financial industry - it sucks. I just don't buy into the fair share concept. That's just marketing nonsense. Fair share = someone else should pay.

 

[ellisr63]

Yeah ok, very funny. I know corporations should just be allowed to do whatever they want. Let's just have no taxes on corporations. There is a such thing as far share.
Look at that miserable tax bill from last year. What a joke. Kill the middle class again and cut taxes enormously for the rich and corporations. Here peasant, here is 50 cents a week and the rich get millions in cuts. That is what the fake populist have us.
It's not like that piece garbage said ya know what the rich can have a giant tax cut but we are gonna do the middle class a solid and raise the social security threshold to a half a million to stabilize the system. No, he gave just giant tax cuts for the rich and nothing else.

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I agree 100%. Do not forget that the Corporations get huge refunds on their deductions and are laying zero. I also know for a fact a Corporation that asks their employees to donate to their favorite charity, and then they deduct it off of their taxes too. Corporations should be paying their fair share of taxes instead of making the middle class foot the bill.

 

[Hetfield]

I'm not arguing that the Republican tax bill was good policy; I'm not in the middle class by any means and I'm getting a fat tax increase, as are lots of wage earners in high tax states. And that carried interest deduction for the financial industry - it sucks. I just don't buy into the fair share concept. That's just marketing nonsense. Fair share = someone else should pay.

No it means we all should pay what is required not they get a huge tax break and the middle class a swift kick in the nuts. That is what the fake populist did.

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[Irvrobinson]

No it means we all should pay what is required not they get a huge tax break and the middle class a swift kick in the nuts. That is what the fake populist did.

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The fake populist didn't do much at all - Congress wrote the bill and the fake populist could sign it or veto it. He chose to sign it.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I agree 100%. Do not forget that the Corporations get huge refunds on their deductions and are laying zero. I also know for a fact a Corporation that asks their employees to donate to their favorite charity, and then they deduct it off of their taxes too. Corporations should be paying their fair share of taxes instead of making the middle class foot the bill.

You know for a fact that some companies are deducting employee-funded charitable donations from their corporate income taxes? I seriously doubt it, but if that's true there are federal whistleblower programs you can get into, and you'll get a share of the proceeds.

 

[ellisr63]

You know for a fact that some companies are deducting employee-funded charitable donations from their corporate income taxes? I seriously doubt it, but if that's true there are federal whistleblower programs you can get into, and you'll get a share of the proceeds.

Yes I know for a fact through a friend who works at one. I am not going to say as I do not work there. He can open his mouth and turn them in. I think he is waiting until he finds another job, and quits to turn them in.

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[highfigh]

Choosing the lesser of 2 evils every 4 years isn't helping this country much.

No, but that's where we have been for the last several elections. Every time we have elections, half of the country doesn't get what it wants and lately, the reactions have become very bitter, rude, inflammatory and I think it's because of social media.

 

[highfigh]

She wasn't the lesser of two evils, she was the only adult running but this country decided to elect a baby with the temperament of an infant. I shouldn't say that because she got 3 million more votes. It's the rural 2 people for every mile that is terrified of the myth someone is going to take there guns away that elected a buffoon with orange complexion.

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2 people for every mile wouldn't get ANYONE elected and it was Obama who caused the gun industry to name him 'Salesman of The Year'.

This is 'adult' behavior and she should have been elected?

From the link below-
"In December 2012, near the end of Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State, a nonprofit group called Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, or CREW, filed a FOIA request seeking records about her email. CREW received a response in May 2013: "no records responsive to your request were located. ".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy

 

[Hetfield]

2 people for every mile wouldn't get ANYONE elected and it was Obama who caused the gun industry to name him 'Salesman of The Year'.

This is 'adult' behavior and she should have been elected?

From the link below-
"In December 2012, near the end of Clinton's tenure as Secretary of State, a nonprofit group called Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, or CREW, filed a FOIA request seeking records about her email. CREW received a response in May 2013: "no records responsive to your request were located. ".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton_email_controversy

Yeah ok, he won the rural areas in just the right places to win. That is a fact.

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[Irvrobinson]

Yeah ok, he won the rural areas in just the right places to win. That is a fact.

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I think you and Ellis should be more careful about what you call facts.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah ok, very funny. I know corporations should just be allowed to do whatever they want. Let's just have no taxes on corporations. There is a such thing as far share.
Look at that miserable tax bill from last year. What a joke. Kill the middle class again and cut taxes enormously for the rich and corporations. Here peasant, here is 50 cents a week and the rich get millions in cuts. That is what the fake populist have us.
It's not like that piece garbage said ya know what the rich can have a giant tax cut but we are gonna do the middle class a solid and raise the social security threshold to a half a million to stabilize the system. No, he gave just giant tax cuts for the rich and nothing else.

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There is no 'fair share' because it can't be determined subjectively. BTW- the current tax rate is

As much as it would be a great thing to raise the SS cutoff to $500K, it would just give Congress more money to pay with and a cash influx of that size would be dangerous. I know, they're supposed to pay it back when they use the money from the SS trust, but they have already been giving it to people who never paid in.

Is this your idea of 'fair'?

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-taxing-wealthy-americans/

It says the wealthy pay an effective tax rate of 24.7% and it's not fair that those making $75K pay around 19%. The fact is, the wealthy pay 24.7% on a helluva lot more than $75K. I know someone who, for some reason, leaves financial paperwork on the counter, in plain view of people who may only be walking through the room. The estimated Federal tax payments I saw were in the $90K PER QUARTER!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/05/americas-taxes-are-the-most-progressive-in-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/?nid=menu_nav_accessibilityforscreenreader&outputType=accessibility&utm_term=.98dfb99e3b93

 

[highfigh]

Yeah ok, he won the rural areas in just the right places to win. That is a fact.

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Hillary lost five states that were won by Obama. Face it- if she had been a better candidate, those states would have been hers. Democrats don't generally win in those rural areas so, your point is...?

 

[highfigh]

Yes I know for a fact through a friend who works at one. I am not going to say as I do not work there. He can open his mouth and turn them in. I think he is waiting until he finds another job, and quits to turn them in.

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It's illegal to retaliate against a whistleblower and he had better have accurate documents if he wants to make a solid case. They can't be confidential and if they are, he needs to have clearance to see them.

 

[Hetfield]

Hillary lost five states that were won by Obama. Face it- if she had been a better candidate, those states would have been hers. Democrats don't generally win in those rural areas so, your point is...?

She still got 3 million more votes no matter how you sice it. He won just enough rural areas. And now thanks to to those voters we have absolute chaos at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.

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[Hetfield]

I think you and Ellis should be more careful about what you call facts.

Almost 3 million more votes and lost. Let that sink in there buddy.

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[Irvrobinson]

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax-fairness-briefing-booklet/fact-sheet-taxing-wealthy-americans/

It says the wealthy pay an effective tax rate of 24.7% and it's not fair that those making $75K pay around 19%. The fact is, the wealthy pay 24.7% on a helluva lot more than $75K. I know someone who, for some reason, leaves financial paperwork on the counter, in plain view of people who may only be walking through the room. The estimated Federal tax payments I saw were in the $90K PER QUARTER!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/news/wonk/wp/2013/04/05/americas-taxes-are-the-most-progressive-in-the-world-its-government-is-among-the-least/?nid=menu_nav_accessibilityforscreenreader&outputType=accessibility&utm_term=.98dfb99e3b93

I enjoyed that. 24.7% is only "a little more" than 19%. Actually, 24.7% is 30% more than 19%, and 30% is more than a little more. I used to get pretty worked up when Obama wanted me to pay "a little bit more" too.

A few years ago I tried the absolute number argument once with a socialist-leaning friend of one of our children. She was in medical school and her husband was a public school music teacher. She accused us, without any information, of not paying our fair share. The argument occurred in the Spring of that year, so I knew what our total federal tax liability was, and feeling frustrated by the accusation I revealed our federal tax bill to the med student, and asked her if we were paying our fair share. Though her eyes widened with the revelation, she responded that, no, we weren't. Her argument was basically that those who can pay should pay, and that income above a certain level (which at the time she thought was about $80K per year) should be essentially confiscated and redistributed through taxes to "people who need it".

Not so long ago the socialist med student graduated and I've heard is a working physician. I wonder what her tax views are now? ;-)