The NRA owns Trump as well.

[highfigh]

America is not a peaceable nation. The reason is guns. The primary purpose of guns is killing things, which is not the primary purpose of a car or airplane.

The fact is that America is a massive outlier when it comes to gun deaths. We are loosing a medium city every year to gun violence at present. Everyone, and I mean everyone has to be called to action over this. Especially those on the right as we are best positioned to bring about radical change. Yes, it is the guns. What happened to the FBI in Florida just shows what all of us know, that human beings are not perfectible. So you can enact all the laws you want and this carnage will continue unless America is disarmed.

The second amendment was enacted when the US was a young fragile country. The second amendment was to allow states to raise militias for the protection of states. The next problem is that the US has a rigid constitution. The problem is a written constitution difficult to change, does not have the ability to adapt to changing times and especially technology. A big reason guns are out of hand is failure of the constitution to adapt to changing technology.

So yes, the second amendment has to be abolished to make the US a peaceable nation. That includes the police except for specialized units. Of course police shoot too many people, the main reason being the way we are wired. The cop will be a hot reactor as there is every expectation a suspect is armed. For a policeman in the UK for instance his instinct that a suspect is unlikely to be armed is reasonable. So this massive supply of guns totally reverses the fast reaction of self preservation. Surveys of UK policeman show that the vast majority would not want to be armed, but rely on their truncheon.

This carnage will not end until the second amendment is repealed, and the citizens and most police disarmed.

By the way insulting Canadians does not cut it with me. Listen to them, and start bow and arrow practice for your hunting sport.

I realize this a massive lift, but it will happen. Generational change will bring it about. I'm very confident of that. That is the solution you asked for and the only one that will make a difference.

I think the only thing that will change this is time. You wrote that the US is not a peaceful nation, but look at your other comment about the US around the time the Constitution was written and signed- it was a young, fragile nation- the US is STILL a young nation, if you consider Europe, Asia and many other places. The US government has had control/contiguous states with the current configuration since 1912 and before that, there was no continental government, while most of Europe had already controlled by one ruler more than two thousand years ago. The rest of the World has been anything BUT peaceful throughout time and the difference is that when most people were at constant war, guns didn't exist. Everyone sure made up for lost time, though. The document that formed the basis of civil law is over 800 years old and by comparison, the US is a young punk of a country. How many civil wars did England have, three? When peace finally came, the British were darned ready for it and it will happen here, too. Eventually. Most are ready, many aren't. Civilized people follow laws, the rest don't and some laws are very basic, but that doesn't matter to these cretins.

 

[highfigh]

Yes, but your gun however responsible you but it's important to remember thatyare with it can get into the wrong hands. I would certainly consider a plan where all guns have to be in a guarded armory and checked in and out.
I will never accept that having a gun in the home is being responsible, but look at it as the height of irresponsibility.

You won't like this, but it is my view that anybody who has a gun in the home is acting irresponsibly. As a physician I saw too many tragedies from the homes of "responsible" gun owners. As I said human beings are not perfectable. So no gun owner can expect to be responsible 100% of the time and that includes you

I know the Swiss require military service and gun ownership- IIRC, they keep them in an armory but still, the intentional homicide rate is lower here than in many countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Define 'medium-sized city'- violent crime has actually dropped/the way it's counted has changed (not sure which is accurate, at this point) in the US, but the stats are kept by the FBI, so.....

Look at Europe through time- how many millions were killed by sword, knife, hanging, guillotine, burned at the stake, drawn and quartered, dragged to their deaths, etc? Being killed quickly is preferable to a slow and agonizing death but it sure took Europe a long time to drop the slow and agonizing kind.

Responsibility in gun ownership is ignored by far too many- they don't secure their guns and even with a decent gun safe, they don't bolt it to the wall and floor as it should be, as shown in this link-

http://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/arizona-news/peoria-police-two-burglars-caught-on-camera-stealing-safe-from-home

To top it off, the homeowners have a dog door that either can't be, or wasn't secured. That's just stupid. Anyone who leaves guns unsecured when kids are in the house should lose the kids and the guns.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Telegraph Matt cartoon today.

He doesn't need anymore ideas.

 

[Mikado463]

Yes, but your gun however responsible you are with it can get into the wrong hands. I would certainly consider a plan where all guns have to be in a guarded armory and checked in and out.
I will never accept that having a gun in the home is being responsible, but look at it as the height of irresponsibility.

You won't like this, but it is my view that anybody who has a gun in the home is acting irresponsibly. As a physician I saw too many tragedies from the homes of "responsible" gun owners. As I said human beings are not perfectable. So no gun owner can expect to be responsible 100% of the time and that includes you

so can you with a cell phone and your automobile, lets face facts........ you and I will never agree, but I'll bet you this, as one old fart to another, you will never see your wishes come to fruition in your lifetime.

As for my grandsons, thank God I live in the good 'ole US of A where I can still enjoy a late fall grouse hunt with them.

 

[everettT]

Then stay out of the thread/conversation and let the rest of us have a civil discussion! You have offered nothing of value to the conversation.

So how was I not civil ? Lemme guess we disagree so I'm not civil. The only comment that wasn't was Re the thread starter. As a gun owner, father and member of the community where this happened I'm certainly part of the conversation ? Where are you from? Own guns? Have kids? The left in America attacks anyone who doesnt agree with them.

Please point out where any post I made is incorrect. Im not a parrot, I think for myself and don't follow like cattle. So please point out where any Gun law would stop a willing criminal.

 

[panteragstk]

 

[everettT]

Was a fan of the show and still am.

I'll ask again will any criminal obey the law because it's law.


I'll bow out as not to disrupt the like fest. Thanks AH for once again allowing a political thread to continue. Anyone remember MarkW? Great guy, good audio advice banned because of a thread like this.

 

[Irvrobinson]

The left in America attacks anyone who doesnt agree with them.

Baloney. You told the Canadians to go away, you claimed no one else made a comment of value, and you accuse lefties of attacking anyone who doesn't agree? Look in the mirror, Mr. T.

And, BTW, like Mark, I tend to be right of center, but I'm not polarized.

As for your question, how about answering mine first? Why can't guns have the same standard for training and control as driving? And leave the 2nd Amendment constitutional right argument at the door, that driving is different because it's a privilege. Voting is a constitutional right too, but commit a felony and in 12 states you lose your right to vote indefinitely. Why is gun ownership on the same level as freedom of religion?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Anyone remember MarkW? Great guy, good audio advice banned because of a thread like this.

Of course. The evangelical guy who liked to make a big deal out of his religious convictions. Sometimes humorous. Sometimes good audio advice, but seemed to want the world to work his way without discussion. Hmmm...

 

[Swerd]

Unfortunately the only solution is repeal of the second amendment. However the wrongful interpretation of the second amendment down the ages is a huge American tragedy.

Repealing the second amendment is highly unlikely. However, I agree that it’s wrongful interpretation since the last Supreme Court ruling on it has been a major source of trouble in this country. I only hope that it can be modified to fit the times we live in.

The fact is that America is a massive outlier when it comes to gun deaths.

True. It’s a fact that too many in this country ignore.

The second amendment was enacted when the US was a young fragile country. The second amendment was to allow states to raise militias for the protection of states.

The second amendment was written at a time when there was no intention of the USA maintaining a standing army. After independence was achieved from Great Britain, the Continental Army was disbanded. A tiny standing army was established after 1794, but citizen militias were relied upon in case of conflict. That is the reason why the second amendment says, “In order to maintain a well-regulated militia”, armed citizens were the source of an army in case of war. Note that the second amendment never mentions any right to own firearms for any other reason, such as self-protection.

The plan of the founding fathers was to avoid forming a professional military class in the USA. Over the years, as the USA’s international role changed, that plan was gradually abandoned.

A professional military academy was first established in 1801. It remained quite small until the Mexican War. The army grew large because of the Civil War, but was largely disbanded afterwards. Similarly in WW1, a large army was raised, and after that war, it didn’t shrink quite so much as after the Civil War. After WW2, the army never became truly small again.

So the reason for the second amendment went away some time ago.

… While I agree, we 'all' have the right to live safely in a peaceable society, it in NO way trumps out my right to own firearms. As far as the selfish part, utter nonsense, do you not understand the term 'responsible' ?

I’ve made an effort to avoid responding directly to responses such as this, but I cannot ignore yours. The second amendment clearly does say that arms ownership is meant for maintaining a well-regulated militia. It never said that that people must be exposed to the risk of slaughter in public in order to allow unrestricted ownership of firearms. I’m not trying to single you out for criticism or ridicule, as others besides you, including the NRA, get that wrong.

 

[everettT]

Baloney. You told the Canadians to go away, you claimed no one else made a comment of value, and you accuse lefties of attacking anyone who doesn't agree? Look in the mirror, Mr. T.

And, BTW, like Mark, I tend to be right of center, but I'm not polarized.

As for your question, how about answering mine first? Why can't guns have the same standard for training and control as driving? And leave the 2nd Amendment constitutional right argument at the door, that driving is different because it's a privilege. Voting is a constitutional right too, but commit a felony and in 12 states you lose your right to vote indefinitely. Why is gun ownership on the same level as freedom of religion?

.

My comment about Canadians was to point out that it isn't their problem, it's an American problem. And when the Trump name calling came out, it pissed me off. Like or dislike Trump he isn't the problem
As for your lefties comment, notice the post from psb bellow that's what I'm talking about, If you don't agree then go away. I'll let the intellectuals handle from here on out.

Thread started by a Canadian pfft . does anyone here have a solution ? This school shooting could have been prevented without any Gun laws. I hate to even post, no one offers realistic solutions, just bashing. Does anyone here critically think? I stand by post #2. And if no political threads are allowed oh wait they are if it suits a narrative. Gun safety, Gun laws, and education ; that's the gun side of it. If anyone here believes that laws stop criminals your delusional. The Chicago argument about Gun shows in Indiana is a load of horse poop. How many members have been to Gun show? This thread is about as pointless as do my Klipsch speakers need more power.

Sorry for the rant
I'm a realist
I'm a gun owner
My kids are Gun owners
We teach safety and responsibilities
For anyone that think laws are a deterrent, revisit those thoughts
Again Canada can stay the hell out of it. I live in Broward County, guns laws didn't fail the FBI, #BSO and the school did.

Then

psbfan9 said: ↑
Then stay out of the thread/conversation and let the rest of us have a civil discussion! You have offered nothing of value to the conversation.


I agree with the standards you mention to driving. I'm all for gun safety.

As mentioned the school shooting, which is why this thread was started, has turned into gun debate and not how to prevent the tragedy from happening.

I have to listen to Sheriff Isreal blame everyone but his officers who were there. All the signs were there and this should have been prevented.

Political threads are always doomed.

 

[highfigh]

And now, they're saying that FOUR deputies stayed away while Cruz fired- must have joined the force so they could play with the siren and flashing lights, carry a gun and wear a uniform, if this is true.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sheriffs-deputies-hid-during-florida-school-shooting/

Sounds like that department needs to be completely re-tooled- in times of crisis, their training is supposed to kick in.

 

[everettT]

And now, they're saying that FOUR deputies stayed away while Cruz fired- must have joined the force so they could play with the siren and flashing lights, carry a gun and wear a uniform, if this is true.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sheriffs-deputies-hid-during-florida-school-shooting/

Sounds like that department needs to be completely re-tooled- in times of crisis, their training is supposed to kick in.

3 officers for sure were there. BSO has 1/2 billion dollars annual budget, they should be a part of the solution, instead Isreal is bitching about the NRA??

 

[highfigh]

3 officers for sure were there. BSO has 1/2 billion dollars annual budget, they should be a part of the solution, instead Isreal is bitching about the NRA??

He HAS to blame someone, right? It couldn't be his fault.

A gunman armed with a 9mm pistol, went to a Sikh temple in Oak Creek, WI on a sunny Sunday morning, killed six and wounded four including the first officer to respond, who was hit fifteen times.

Half of success in life comes from just showing up- these deputies must have thought "We'll wait- someone else can handle it.

Lt Brian Murphy, the officer who was shot fifteen times, had one main thought during the ordeal- "Don't give up". The deputies in Florida make bad cops look good.

https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6204982-Cop-shot-15-times-at-Sikh-Temple-says-Never-give-up/

 

[Mikado463]

And now, they're saying that FOUR deputies stayed away while Cruz fired- must have joined the force so they could play with the siren and flashing lights, carry a gun and wear a uniform, if this is true.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/23/four-sheriffs-deputies-hid-during-florida-school-shooting/

Sounds like that department needs to be completely re-tooled- in times of crisis, their training is supposed to kick in.

Wow, if all true that is really sad.

 

[everettT]

Here's one that's the schools fault. This is not related to the officers that were there when the shooting first started.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-response-20180221-story,amp.html

CCTV tape delayed pfft

 

[highfigh]

Here's one that's the schools fault. This is not related to the officers that were there when the shooting first started.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/parkland/florida-school-shooting/fl-florida-school-shooting-response-20180221-story,amp.html

CCTV tape delayed pfft

That's a huge load of crap. Videotape? NOBODY uses tape unless they're recording a UFO, Bigfoot or they own a gas station. This school has 3200 students- they have a large budget and if they haven't updated their cameras in the last ten years, the school board should be in the same cell as Cruz. The advances in surveillance cameras and recording hardware in the last four years makes me think the person who said it was delayed and on tape knows nothing about this but even the systems I worked with ten years ago had no delay.

I install security cameras and anyone who has a real camera system with a DVR/NVR knows they can view what's happening onsite with almost no delay. The main cause of delays is network speed, but 20 minutes is almost impossible. With some cameras, it's possible to have a conversation with someone who's at each end, in real time, with no delay- I have been called by people who dialed as soon as they saw me at their home and wanted to ask a question.

Who are they protecting?

 

[panteragstk]

Who are they protecting?

They wan't to be scrutinized for being inept.

 

[3db]

Thread started by a Canadian pfft . does anyone here have a solution ? This school shooting could have been prevented without any Gun laws. I hate to even post, no one offers realistic solutions, just bashing. Does anyone here critically think? I stand by post #2. And if no political threads are allowed oh wait they are if it suits a narrative. Gun safety, Gun laws, and education ; that's the gun side of it. If anyone here believes that laws stop criminals your delusional. The Chicago argument about Gun shows in Indiana is a load of horse poop. How many members have been to Gun show? This thread is about as pointless as do my Klipsch speakers need more power.

Sorry for the rant
I'm a realist
I'm a gun owner
My kids are Gun owners
We teach safety and responsibilities
For anyone that think laws are a deterrent, revisit those thoughts
Again Canada can stay the hell out of it. I live in Broward County, guns laws didn't fail the FBI, #BSO and the school did.

It sometimes takes an outsider looking in to tell you the obvious. Your love affair for guns and the NRA has totally blinded you. Here you rant but offer no solutions either. You just criticize others but offer nothing in return. I recognozie that arming teaches is an escalation of an already bad problem. If you don't think gun controls work, look to Australia where they banned guns after a mass shooting. And its working there.

BTW I have relatives that live in the US so I'm concerned for their safety.

 

[3db]

.

My comment about Canadians was to point out that it isn't their problem, it's an American problem. And when the Trump name calling came out, it pissed me off. Like or dislike Trump he isn't the problem
As for your lefties comment, notice the post from psb bellow that's what I'm talking about, If you don't agree then go away. I'll let the intellectuals handle from here on out.

I would call out any leader of any country a dumbass for promoting a process that leads to escalation, not descalation. I've often criticized the former Canadian PM for things he's said and done. Indirectly it becomes Canada's problem too as we share the worlds biggest border with the US and under good reations. I just don't want to see this crap move north into our borders.

Here's an interesting stat.. It fails to mention whether or not if the guns are legally or illegally owned.

https://qz.com/1095899/gun-ownership-in-america-in-three-charts/


Do Americans own a lot of guns?
In both absolute and relative terms, the answer is yes. The US tops the list of countries with the most guns, owning about half the world’s guns while making up only 5% of the world population.

In relative terms, the US has the highest number of guns per capita. There were an estimated 89 to 100 guns for every 100 Americans in 2013–around one firearm per person.