The NRA owns Trump as well.

[TheWarrior]

But you can't buy what you can't own in your own state. OTOH, they can just get a straw buyer and be done with it.

True, but that's not what I referenced. People cite Illinois as an example of failure of "tough gun control laws" but that is superseded by the fact that you can go to Indiana and only wait 24 hours to purchase, instead of Illinois' longer wait period and requirement of licenses etc.

 

[highfigh]

As I mentioned before, there are NO solutions, only tradeoffs. Yes, there's a possibility of being jumped for your weapon, if they knew you carried one. I have a feeling that if that was a possibility in that school, the teacher may need the weapon for more than student defense, but self-defense as well.

BTW, the police chief was complaining about his state and local laws, and he wanted them changed to exclude more holders with criminal records. That's not representative of concealed carry permit holders in general.

But I live two blocks from the Northern boundary of MKE and I don't give a rat's butt about CCP holders, in general- if it stops the killing, I'm all for it. You know what I hear when I have my windows open (and even if they're closed) at my house? I hear gunfire. All year long. It's coming from the South and West of my house, occasionally from the Southeast, but almost always from Milwaukee. The rare times it comes from my small city- it's idiots from Milwaukee. We have people who were released from prison and three hours later, they have killed someone, sometimes several. We have people getting PO'd about a breakup, so they go to the ex's house and kill her, her mother and himself (just last weekend)-

http://www.latimes.com/sns-bc-wi--double-homicide-suicide-milwaukee-20171217-story.html

https://projects.jsonline.com/apps/Milwaukee-Homicide-Database/

Often, when shootings occur, those involved won't cooperate with the Police and in (far too) many cases, the family of the deceased is on TV, wailing and crying about how they were such good people, church-going people, they had just found god and had turned their lives around and then, 'WHERE WERE THE POLICE, TO STOP THIS??????????". Right- you didn't want to cooperate, yet you want the Police to be there to stop what you didn't help to prevent. Can't have it both ways, kids.

The Milwaukee DA and judges are too stupid to see that they're allowing killers to go free and kill more people.

 

[highfigh]

True, but that's not what I referenced. People cite Illinois as an example of failure of "tough gun control laws" but that is superseded by the fact that you can go to Indiana and only wait 24 hours to purchase, instead of Illinois' longer wait period and requirement of licenses etc.

Criminals, or 'law-abiding' people? Criminals don't care- if they want guns, they'll get guns. Once 'law-abiding' people skirt the laws, they're criminals, regardless of how they justify it.

 

[TheWarrior]

Criminals, or 'law-abiding' people? Criminals don't care- if they want guns, they'll get guns. Once 'law-abiding' people skirt the laws, they're criminals, regardless of how they justify it.

There are no laws preventing people in Illinois from going to Indiana to purchase guns, that we seem to be aware of, except with guns that are illegal to own in Illinois.

 

[TLS Guy]

Telegraph Matt cartoon today.

 

[3db]

But the Democrats seem to be willing to take less, if you look at what each member of Congress receives. A LOT less.

I want to see an end to lobbying and corporate campaign contributions.

Ending lobbying and corporate campaign contributions would be a good start in cleaning up the corruption that runs so prevalent in both parties. Its not much better here in Canada either when it comes to political corruption.

 

[everettT]

Thread started by a Canadian pfft . does anyone here have a solution ? This school shooting could have been prevented without any Gun laws. I hate to even post, no one offers realistic solutions, just bashing. Does anyone here critically think? I stand by post #2. And if no political threads are allowed oh wait they are if it suits a narrative. Gun safety, Gun laws, and education ; that's the gun side of it. If anyone here believes that laws stop criminals your delusional. The Chicago argument about Gun shows in Indiana is a load of horse poop. How many members have been to Gun show? This thread is about as pointless as do my Klipsch speakers need more power.

Sorry for the rant
I'm a realist
I'm a gun owner
My kids are Gun owners
We teach safety and responsibilities
For anyone that think laws are a deterrent, revisit those thoughts
Again Canada can stay the hell out of it. I live in Broward County, guns laws didn't fail the FBI, #BSO and the school did.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thread started by a Canadian pfft . does anyone here have a solution ? This school shooting could have been prevented without any Gun laws. I hate to even post, no one offers realistic solutions, just bashing. Does anyone here critically think? I stand by post #2. And if no political threads are allowed oh wait they are if it suits a narrative. Gun safety, Gun laws, and education ; that's the gun side of it. If anyone here believes that laws stop criminals your delusional. The Chicago argument about Gun shows in Indiana is a load of horse poop. How many members have been to Gun show? This thread is about as pointless as do my Klipsch speakers need more power.

Sorry for the rant
I'm a realist
I'm a gun owner
My kids are Gun owners
We teach safety and responsibilities
For anyone that think laws are a deterrent, revisit those thoughts
Again Canada can stay the hell out of it. I live in Broward County, guns laws didn't fail the FBI, #BSO and the school did.

Unfortunately the only solution is repeal of the second amendment. However the wrongful interpretation of the second amendment down the ages is a huge American tragedy.

I'm on the right of the political spectrum but was not born here. I was 29 when I entered the US.

America is not a peaceable nation. The reason is guns. The primary purpose of guns is killing things, which is not the primary purpose of a car or airplane.

The fact is that America is a massive outlier when it comes to gun deaths. We are loosing a medium city every year to gun violence at present. Everyone, and I mean everyone has to be called to action over this. Especially those on the right as we are best positioned to bring about radical change. Yes, it is the guns. What happened to the FBI in Florida just shows what all of us know, that human beings are not perfectible. So you can enact all the laws you want and this carnage will continue unless America is disarmed.

The second amendment was enacted when the US was a young fragile country. The second amendment was to allow states to raise militias for the protection of states. The next problem is that the US has a rigid constitution. The problem is a written constitution difficult to change, does not have the ability to adapt to changing times and especially technology. A big reason guns are out of hand is failure of the constitution to adapt to changing technology.

So yes, the second amendment has to be abolished to make the US a peaceable nation. That includes the police except for specialized units. Of course police shoot too many people, the main reason being the way we are wired. The cop will be a hot reactor as there is every expectation a suspect is armed. For a policeman in the UK for instance his instinct that a suspect is unlikely to be armed is reasonable. So this massive supply of guns totally reverses the fast reaction of self preservation. Surveys of UK policeman show that the vast majority would not want to be armed, but rely on their truncheon.

This carnage will not end until the second amendment is repealed, and the citizens and most police disarmed.

By the way insulting Canadians does not cut it with me. Listen to them, and start bow and arrow practice for your hunting sport.

I realize this a massive lift, but it will happen. Generational change will bring it about. I'm very confident of that. That is the solution you asked for and the only one that will make a difference.

 

[Mikado463]

I hear what your saying TLS, but none of it is likely in my lifetime, nor do I want it to be. I'm a responsible gun owner that is very active in a number of the shooting sports. If only common sense could prevail .........

 

[TLS Guy]

I hear what your saying TLS, but none of it is likely in my lifetime, nor do I want it to be. I'm a responsible gun owner that is very active in a number of the shooting sports. If only common sense could prevail .........

The fact is that common sense is a misnomer. Common sense should be rare sense as it is trumped continuously by stupidity and ineptitude.

The desire to own firearms is actually a very selfish one. I think my right to live safely in a peaceable society trumps out your desire to want firearms.

And yes, this will be a long tough road given the tragic history of this nation and personal gun ownership.

 

[rojo]

does anyone here have a solution?

Yeah, I have a solution. Sink more money into education -- a ton more. Stop this no child left behind BS. Fail kids who need failed. Feed kids who have no idea what their next meal is coming from. Stop passing kids to the next grade who can't read, just because the classrooms are already at capacity, or for the mere sake of a higher graduation rate. Pay teachers what they're worth so the best ones stay. Subsidize college to reverse grade inflation. Make earning a degree require hard work and talent, not just a tuition check. When colleges no longer have to consider the financial impact of failing students maybe we can roll back grade inflation and make a degree mean something again. A more educated populace is a more skeptical populace, more resistant to fact-free propaganda and corrupt leadership. Meanwhile, increased spending on grade school needs to result in more teachers, lower student-to-teacher ratio, more attention given to students, and less chance of adolescent mental illness slipping through the cracks. Better education will eventually result in greater prosperity and lower crime rates. For the short term, more funding in education will allow schools to provide more effective SROs.

The obvious solution of getting rid of guns is not going to happen until we as a society evolve. We won't evolve until we're smarter as a nation.

 

[Mikado463]

The fact is that common sense is a misnomer. Common sense should be rare sense as it is trumped continuously by stupidity and ineptitude.

The desire to own firearms is actually a very selfish one. I think my right to live safely in a peaceable society trumps out your desire to want firearms.

And yes, this will be a long tough road given the tragic history of this nation and personal gun ownership.

Well, like you said, you're not Native to this country. While I agree, we 'all' have the right to live safely in a peaceable society, it in NO way trumps out my right to own firearms. As far as the selfish part, utter nonsense, do you not understand the term 'responsible' ?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Unfortunately the only solution is repeal of the second amendment.

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I think there is a middle ground, which is dramatically increased licensing standards for owning guns, with increased requirements as the capabilities of the weapons increases. My sense is that what I'm suggesting has only a very low probably of becoming law, but repeal of the 2nd Amendment requires a two-thirds majority in the House and Senate. I see no chance at all of that happening.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Yeah, I have a solution. Sink more money into education -- a ton more. Stop this no child left behind BS. Fail kids who need failed. Feed kids who have no idea what their next meal is coming from. Stop passing kids to the next grade who can't read, just because the classrooms are already at capacity, or for the mere sake of a higher graduation rate. Pay teachers what they're worth so the best ones stay. Subsidize college to reverse grade inflation. Make earning a degree require hard work and talent, not just a tuition check. When colleges no longer have to consider the financial impact of failing students maybe we can roll back grade inflation and make a degree mean something again. A more educated populace is a more skeptical populace, more resistant to fact-free propaganda and corrupt leadership. Meanwhile, increased spending on grade school needs to result in more teachers, lower student-to-teacher ratio, more attention given to students, and less chance of adolescent mental illness slipping through the cracks. Better education will eventually result in greater prosperity and lower crime rates. For the short term, more funding in education will allow schools to provide more effective SROs.

The obvious solution of getting rid of guns is not going to happen until we as a society evolve. We won't evolve until we're smarter as a nation.

Far out. I'm all for eliminating grade inflation, but talk about an indirect means to an end.

 

[TLS Guy]

Well, like you said, you're not Native to this country. While I agree, we 'all' have the right to live safely in a peaceable society, it in NO way trumps out my right to own firearms. As far as the selfish part, utter nonsense, do you not understand the term 'responsible' ?

Yes, but your gun however responsible you are with it can get into the wrong hands. I would certainly consider a plan where all guns have to be in a guarded armory and checked in and out.
I will never accept that having a gun in the home is being responsible, but look at it as the height of irresponsibility.

You won't like this, but it is my view that anybody who has a gun in the home is acting irresponsibly. As a physician I saw too many tragedies from the homes of "responsible" gun owners. As I said human beings are not perfectable. So no gun owner can expect to be responsible 100% of the time and that includes you

 

[TLS Guy]

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread, I think there is a middle ground, which is dramatically increased licensing standards for owning guns, with increased requirements as the capabilities of the weapons increases. My sense is that what I'm suggesting has only a very low probably of becoming law, but repeal of the 2nd Amendment requires a two-thirds majority in the House and Senate. I see no chance at all of that happening.

Not now, but I think the tragedies will unfortunately continue and it will happen. There will be a lot more needless deaths from here to there. Among my grandchildren's generation the pressure is building at an exponential rate. They all now know that they are sitting ducks in a class room and it can happen here. They are not happy about it. My granddaughter just left class with her school and teachers last week and stormed city hall. The mayor was a big backer and marched with them. And another thing, it is still biting cold up here.

Churchill once said, that democracies are like a big ship at sea. Slow to turn, but when they do there is no stopping them. I detect that the ship is starting to turn.

 

[highfigh]

Thread started by a Canadian pfft . does anyone here have a solution ? This school shooting could have been prevented without any Gun laws. I hate to even post, no one offers realistic solutions, just bashing. Does anyone here critically think? I stand by post #2. And if no political threads are allowed oh wait they are if it suits a narrative. Gun safety, Gun laws, and education ; that's the gun side of it. If anyone here believes that laws stop criminals your delusional. The Chicago argument about Gun shows in Indiana is a load of horse poop. How many members have been to Gun show? This thread is about as pointless as do my Klipsch speakers need more power.

Sorry for the rant
I'm a realist
I'm a gun owner
My kids are Gun owners
We teach safety and responsibilities
For anyone that think laws are a deterrent, revisit those thoughts
Again Canada can stay the hell out of it. I live in Broward County, guns laws didn't fail the FBI, #BSO and the school did.

The main ideas on the gun side are:

We have the right to arm ourselves because nobody can (or should be able to) take that away
We have the right to protect ourselves and others.

Also, buried in the paranoid BS and platter-sized belt buckles is the idea that gun owners should act responsibly. It's hard to find, but it's in there. Unfortunately, being paranoid can also mean the person hides guns all around their place as if they're a freaking squirrel hiding nuts for Winter and when someone breaks in, they have easy access to an arsenal. The need for acting responsibly is also taught by CCP instructors but that doesn't make the news, does it?

 

[psbfan9]

This thread is about as pointless as do my Klipsch speakers need more power.

Then stay out of the thread/conversation and let the rest of us have a civil discussion! You have offered nothing of value to the conversation.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Not now, but I think the tragedies will unfortunately continue and it will happen. There will be a lot more needless deaths from here to there. Among my grandchildren's generation the pressure is building at an exponential rate. They all now know that they are sitting ducks in a class room and it can happen here. They are not happy about it. My granddaughter just left class with her school and teachers last week and stormed city hall. The mayor was a big backer and marched with them. And another thing, it is still biting cold up here.

Churchill once said, that democracies are like a big ship at sea. Slow to turn, but when they do there is no stopping them. I detect that the ship is starting to turn.

I hope you're correct.

 

[Irvrobinson]

You won't like this, but it is my view that anybody who has a gun in the home is acting irresponsibly. As a physician I saw too many tragedies from the homes of "responsible" gun owners. As I said human beings are not perfectable. So no gun owner can expect to be responsible 100% of the time and that includes you

On an intellectual level I agree with you, Mark, but we do many dangerous things. Having even one drink and driving. Driving at all. Mountain climbing. Like I said, I'd be happy at this point to have gun owners licensed as rigidly as we do drivers, which isn't very tightly IMO.