The NRA owns Trump as well.

[3db]

Define 'normal'. Who even knows what that means anymore?

Read or watch the news- a huge number of people want guns banned. I'm not going to search through all of your posts, but you have mentioned the Australian ban at least once (on pg 8).

Hoarding guns is for the paranoid and they do not make up 20% of the population. The rest may have one or two and they aren't trying to fight off the government, nor do they think the government will be raiding homes for guns. Some gun owners don't care about them, but may be keeping them because they were inherited, others may buy because of investment value. Stats can tell a lot of stories, but someone should talk to non-NRA people to get their take on things before reaching their conclusions. I know people who are gung-ho and in fact, I would like to see the guns taken from some of them. One guy has a huge problem with anger management, one wears his serving platter-sized belt buckle with "The Right To Bear Arms" cast into it, but he couldn't quote the whole Amendment if he, well, had a gun to his head. Another is a neighbor who has been allowed to keep some guns, but recently lost his CCP because he had a pistol with him when he killed the light pole across the street from my house with his pickup truck. I listened to the Police radio app while they were outside and a comment about his CCP was made and he was in cuffs after the field sobriety test. I heard another call about him- the Police were called because he was drunk & suicidal, making threats with a gun. Apparently, it's OK to do that in the comfort of ones' own home. I don't want him to have ANY guns. For that matter, I'd like him to move out of the neighborhood.

I made a comment before, which was made more accurate- "fear is an effective way of controlling people" and when people are afraid of something, they react. People are reactive- there's no getting around that fact and it would be good if we weren't, but changing it is a tall order.

Again with the deflections. Australia banned semiautomatic and automatic weapons or what the Aussies called "rapid fire weapons" .

https://mic.com/articles/123049/19-...-here-s-what-happened-in-australia#.KfRmvWOqU

There is no possible reason for possessing an automatic or semi automatic weapon unless you belong to a gun club and there are very strict laws in place to be priviledged to own them. Irv said it best that gun ownership should be made a priviledge and not a right especially when misinterpreting the 2nd amendment. The term amendment means a change to the original constitution. Maybe it should be ammended again to fix this loose interpretation that people are hiding behind to justify owning so many guns.

Where are you getting the stat about gun hoarders making up the 20% of the population?

 

[Swerd]

Hoarding guns is for the paranoid and they do not make up 20% of the population.

Where are you getting the stat about gun hoarders making up the 20% of the population?

Just 3% of adults own half of America's guns. (Washington Post Sept. 19, 2016)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...half-of-americas-guns/?utm_term=.497347b1777a

According to the results of a survey of 4,000 gun owners by Harvard U-Northeastern U:

78% of American adults do not own any guns.
19% of American adults own 50% of the guns.
3% of American adults own the other 50% of guns.​

The survey's findings support other research showing that as overall rates of gun ownership has declined (in the USA), the number of firearms in circulation has skyrocketed. The implication is that there are more guns in fewer hands than ever before. The top 3% of American adults own, on average, 17 guns apiece, according to the survey's estimates.

I think the most important fact coming out of this survey is that 78% of American adults do not own any gun, while 22% do own guns. Yet, that vocal minority dictates it's will. Unlike some (voiced here by highfigh), I fear criminals with guns much less than I fear the champions of 2nd Amendment rights and the NRA/GOP politicians who exploit them.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Which makes it a problem with people- if someone wasn't willing to smuggle guns, they wouldn't be there. If someone wasn't willing to sell of give a gun to someone to be used for armed robbery, murder, carjacking, etc, they wouldn't. If someone wasn't willing to kill others, they wouldn't.

The reason guns are used is because they're effective at a distance, but most shootings occur at a distance of 3 to 7 yards.

Semi-automatic, not automatic.* Fully auto weapons aren't allowed unless someone is approved and they pay the license fee. Making a semi-auto weapon into fully automatic is illegal, too. The problem, once again, is with people- they don't care that something is illegal, so they do it.

Yes, it's a people problem. But, we would have fewer problems with our people accessing illegal firearms if the U.S. would take regulation more seriously. I don't think the U.S. has a hugely disproportionate number of crazy people, relative to Canada. You just have a hugely disproportionate number of crazy people who have access to lethal weaponry.

*I understood that they meant semi-automatic. I just quoted verbatim.

 

[panteragstk]

Yes, it's a people problem. But, we would have fewer problems with our people accessing illegal firearms if the U.S. would take regulation more seriously. I don't think the U.S. has a hugely disproportionate number of crazy people, relative to Canada. You just have a hugely disproportionate number of crazy people who have access to lethal weaponry.

*I understood that they meant semi-automatic. I just quoted verbatim.

That is a good way of laying out the problem. If crazy folks can't get guns, they can't use them against innocent people...not all that complicated.

What's complicated is how to achieve this with our current laws and regulations.

 

[Ponzio]

Define 'normal'. Who even knows what that means anymore?

Read or watch the news- a huge number of people want guns banned. I'm not going to search through all of your posts, but you have mentioned the Australian ban at least once (on pg 8).

Hoarding guns is for the paranoid and they do not make up 20% of the population. The rest may have one or two and they aren't trying to fight off the government, nor do they think the government will be raiding homes for guns. Some gun owners don't care about them, but may be keeping them because they were inherited, others may buy because of investment value. Stats can tell a lot of stories, but someone should talk to non-NRA people to get their take on things before reaching their conclusions. I know people who are gung-ho and in fact, I would like to see the guns taken from some of them. One guy has a huge problem with anger management, one wears his serving platter-sized belt buckle with "The Right To Bear Arms" cast into it, but he couldn't quote the whole Amendment if he, well, had a gun to his head. Another is a neighbor who has been allowed to keep some guns, but recently lost his CCP because he had a pistol with him when he killed the light pole across the street from my house with his pickup truck. I listened to the Police radio app while they were outside and a comment about his CCP was made and he was in cuffs after the field sobriety test. I heard another call about him- the Police were called because he was drunk & suicidal, making threats with a gun. Apparently, it's OK to do that in the comfort of ones' own home. I don't want him to have ANY guns. For that matter, I'd like him to move out of the neighborhood.

I made a comment before, which was made more accurate- "fear is an effective way of controlling people" and when people are afraid of something, they react. People are reactive- there's no getting around that fact and it would be good if we weren't, but changing it is a tall order.

As gun owners we agree on some things, especially that we need tighter gun controls but this goes right to the heart of the problem. The NRA are absolutists, there’s no negotiating. Guns for everybody! 18 years old and ur hormonally challenged, the NRA says it's okie-dokie with them. Tommy seems like a nice boy.

We should be able to engineer our way out of this. Logic says that the more guns there are out there, then more than likely a crime is going to occur. If data integration was allowed … IT IS NOT … between gun manufacturers and local/national/federal agencies and said guns are legally purchased u could more easily track a guns movement. Ban private sales like Germany does (89% gun ownership, one of the highest in the world, no assault weapons, etc. ) and then you might get a better handle on things. Crimes & crimes of passion will not go away but they will be decreased. Like I said, I’m trying to engineer the problem down.

And for God’s sake reopen the state mental hospitals that Reagan shut down first in California and then spread to the rest of the nation with devastating results in the late 60’s till now. Allow parents with sick children to commit them for their own good. The poor parents of the Colorado shooter come to mind, the movie theater incident. They begged & tried numerous times to have him detained to no avail. Another mass shooting that could have been avoided. The examples of these sad incidents are repetitive in nature and to a degree avoidable.

We still haven’t recovered and we see them roaming the streets and not just the big cities anymore and they’re allowed to buy a gun.

What’s the old joke, pay me now or pay me later.

 

[mtrycrafts]

This is an American problem that bleeds into Canada.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...1c93021392a_story.html?utm_term=.3329b21805eb

From the article:

"Homicides in Toronto spiked to 80 in 2005, from 64 in 2004, and the majority were shooting-related. About 70 percent of the guns used were handguns and automatic weapons smuggled from the United States, police say."

Hey, we are exporters. Good for the trade balance.

No, it is not funny.

 

[mtrycrafts]

One only has to examine the overall deaths from guns each year, then analize how many sane people(when they bought the weapon) snapped and killed or injured at a later date. I bet the number is pretty large.

 

[mtrycrafts]

That is a good way of laying out the problem. If crazy folks can't get guns, they can't use them against innocent people...not all that complicated.

What's complicated is how to achieve this with our current laws and regulations.

How about the sane ones snapping after the fact? Annual psych testing? 6 Month? Every month?

 

[KEW]

That is a good way of laying out the problem. If crazy folks can't get guns, they can't use them against innocent people...not all that complicated.

What's complicated is how to achieve this with our current laws and regulations.

Actually, I think the real problem is we have a very poor handle on what "crazy" is (at least from the standpoint of safe gun ownership). The best tests we have are very time consuming and must be delivered by people with the proper training, but are still no gold standard. Attempting to test the entire population is an expensive proposition.

Also, "crazy" can be fluid!

Let's consider the guy who did the shooting in Las Vegas (IIRC) he was in his late 50's. Would he have failed a test in his early life - he lived decades before contriving a plot to murder people? How often do you give such a test? All gun owners annually?

How can any of us be certain we could not go crazy? I know seemingly stable people who came back from war unable to re-connect with their wife and kids who they had absolutely adored before. I'm not so confident that the right set of experiences/circumstances would not put anyone at risk. Some of us are more stable than others, but we may all have our breaking point!

Could we really have identified the people who have gone postal before they went postal? If so how much before they went postal?

To properly address an issue, you need to address it on the points you actually can have some accuracy with. I don't think our ability to measure/prevent "crazy" is one of them.

Unfortunately, "crazy" is an unmanageable method for attacking the mass shootings we are seeing.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Going back to the 2nd Amendment. I looked. No mention of AR-15 or assault weapons or semi auto rifles.
If machineguns can be banned, so can these assault type of weapons. The elected officials just need a to grow a backbone.
Oh, and the Supreme court upheld banning it in several localities in recent years. Three cases I saw on TV; don't ask which ones.

 

[pewternhrata]

How about the sane ones snapping after the fact? Annual psych testing? 6 Month? Every month?

Retest once a yr? But there are 12 months in between where anything can happen. People snap quickly these days.
I can't choose sides in the mainstream about these issues. increasing laws/regulations should help, but it's not a cure all, nothing will stop it 100%. Let's take the current laws/regulations away (well hypothetically) See how effective they actually are and build upon them. I think ppl forget that there are current laws in place that do help, I'm not saying don't do more, but current laws do help. Those against guns will never be happy until it is impossible for anyone to murder, lets be honest that's just not possible. Its not 'if we have no guns, there will be no more shootings' it sadly boils down to 'if we have no people it won't happen'

Society as a whole wants to point blame, it's human nature. What I've read about other cultures, it's not about the laws that prevent these types of things from happening, it's those who live in those cultures that do. Majority is uneducated. Take my gun you take my freedom, well no that's not what is going on. Take the guns I will be safe, well...again...nope. The way of life, the separation of "classes" or "groups".
The US is filled with every side of culture and no one can agree on one simple thing; life.

 

[highfigh]

And for God’s sake reopen the state mental hospitals that Reagan shut down first in California and then spread to the rest of the nation with devastating results in the late 60’s till now. Allow parents with sick children to commit them for their own good. The poor parents of the Colorado shooter come to mind, the movie theater incident. They begged & tried numerous times to have him detained to no avail. Another mass shooting that could have been avoided. The examples of these sad incidents are repetitive in nature and to a degree avoidable.

We still haven’t recovered and we see them roaming the streets and not just the big cities anymore and they’re allowed to buy a gun.

What’s the old joke, pay me now or pay me later.

They are not allowed to buy guns, but the application allows people to answer questions about their own sanity (or lack, thereof) and that's the same as letting Congress determine their own pay & benefits. Call it 'inmates running the asylum' and you choose which it applies to. Nobody wants to admit that they're mentally unstable and in the case of people who are truly disconnected from reality, I don't know how they would answer, anyway. I do think FFLs, gun dealers and private sellers should pay attention to how someone acts when they're in the process of applying and buying, but the lawyers would ask "What makes them qualified to determine someones' sanity?".

I used a gun shop as my FFL and it was more expensive than some, they do have overhead and some liability with the process, so....

We just had an incident in MKE this morning- a guy was getting out of his car to go into his place of work and someone came up to him in an attempted carjacking. That's the last time the potential carjacker will do that, or anything else.

 

[highfigh]

Again with the deflections. Australia banned semiautomatic and automatic weapons or what the Aussies called "rapid fire weapons" .

https://mic.com/articles/123049/19-...-here-s-what-happened-in-australia#.KfRmvWOqU

There is no possible reason for possessing an automatic or semi automatic weapon unless you belong to a gun club and there are very strict laws in place to be priviledged to own them. Irv said it best that gun ownership should be made a priviledge and not a right especially when misinterpreting the 2nd amendment. The term amendment means a change to the original constitution. Maybe it should be ammended again to fix this loose interpretation that people are hiding behind to justify owning so many guns.

Where are you getting the stat about gun hoarders making up the 20% of the population?

You don't seem to remember what you posted. You wrote "Did I mention ban in my posts in this thread? On the other hand do you not find it odd that 1/5 of the population owns a majority of the worlds guns? Does that seem "normal" to you?" and I replied that the hoarders don't make up the whole 20%. If you have forgotten, 1/5 IS 20%.

"No possible reason"? Who are you to decide that? What if someone is interested in guns from a manufacturing standpoint? They don't necessarily need one that's operable, but it does allow them to examine the intricacies. What about someone who wants to develop better body armor? Some like to shoot as a hobby- that's one reason to have this kind of gun. I don't see a need for a lot of things but my opinion won't sway many people, much like yours. I agree that almost nobody actually needs this kind of gun.

This is an emotional issue- children are being killed for no good reason and when it happens, the number of dead is sickening. It's nothing anyone should have to deal with.

 

[highfigh]

Just 3% of adults own half of America's guns. (Washington Post Sept. 19, 2016)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...half-of-americas-guns/?utm_term=.497347b1777a

According to the results of a survey of 4,000 gun owners by Harvard U-Northeastern U:

78% of American adults do not own any guns.
19% of American adults own 50% of the guns.
3% of American adults own the other 50% of guns.​

The survey's findings support other research showing that as overall rates of gun ownership has declined (in the USA), the number of firearms in circulation has skyrocketed. The implication is that there are more guns in fewer hands than ever before. The top 3% of American adults own, on average, 17 guns apiece, according to the survey's estimates.

I think the most important fact coming out of this survey is that 78% of American adults do not own any gun, while 22% do own guns. Yet, that vocal minority dictates it's will. Unlike some (voiced here by highfigh), I fear criminals with guns much less than I fear the champions of 2nd Amendment rights and the NRA/GOP politicians who exploit them.

That's some pretty good cypherin'- getting all of that from a survey of 4000 gun owners.

If adults make up 35% of the US population and we use the estimate of around 325 Million people, 3%=3,412,500 and with the estimate of 265 Million guns, that means this 3% owns about 39 guns. Think about that average. Does it seem reasonable, at all?

Who's doing all of the killing? It's sure not legal gun owners and the AR-style rifle is NOT the most used gun. They do kill but by far, the hand gun is the weapon of choice for murder and suicide (which makes up at least half of all gun deaths).

 

[Ponzio]

Fred Eaglesmith - Time To Get A Gun

 

[Steve81]

Just a reminder to keep things cool folks:
https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/political-threads.110603/

 

[TheWarrior]

Getting back on topic with who the NRA owns - it appears my own Lt. Governor is now threatening one of our states' largest employers with extortion...

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ll-tax-break-for-delta-airlines-amid-nra-spat

 

[rojo]

Getting back on topic with who the NRA owns - it appears my own Lt. Governor is now threatening one of our states' largest employers with extortion...

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ll-tax-break-for-delta-airlines-amid-nra-spat

That's dangerously short sighted. Atlanta is the largest hub for Delta in the Southeast. Lt. Governor is picking a fight that could convince Delta to use Charlotte NC as their primary regional hub. That could mean layoffs and loss of taxes. All because he's butthurt and loyal to the NRA?

 

[TheWarrior]

That's dangerously short sighted. Atlanta is the largest hub for Delta in the Southeast. Lt. Governor is picking a fight that could convince Delta to use Charlotte NC as their primary regional hub. That could mean layoffs and loss of taxes. All because he's butthurt and loyal to the NRA?

Delta is based here, it's not simply the largest hub, 33,000 GA residents are employed.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/georgia_senate_blocks_delta_ta.html

I fail to see where I am being short sighted when this deal was nearing completion, and is now being overturned due to the stated severance of ties with the NRA.

 

[rojo]

Delta is based here, it's not simply the largest hub, 33,000 GA residents are employed.

http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2018/02/georgia_senate_blocks_delta_ta.html

I fail to see where I am being short sighted when this deal was nearing completion, and is now being overturned due to the stated severance of ties with the NRA.

You're not being short sighted. The Lt. Governor is. Sorry, I should've been clearer.