Which sub is better?

[craigsub]

The Cadence Xsub arrived today. It is temporarily replacing twin SVS PB12-Ultras ($2400) in our 5700^3 foot theater room.

So far, I am only playing Bonnie Rait through it - but it seems pretty good. By 11 tonight, hopefully I will get to hit it a little harder.

 

[MacManNM]

The Cadence Xsub arrived today. It is temporarily replacing twin SVS PB12-Ultras ($2400) in our 5700^3 foot theater room.

So far, I am only playing Bonnie Rait through it - but it seems pretty good. By 11 tonight, hopefully I will get to hit it a little harder.

Did it arive ok? What do you think about the build quality? Those are some big shoes to fill, in a big room!

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Twin SVS PB12 Ultras? Wholly Cow.

The Cadence Xsub arrived today. It is temporarily replacing twin SVS PB12-Ultras ($2400) in our 5700^3 foot theater room.

So far, I am only playing Bonnie Rait through it - but it seems pretty good. By 11 tonight, hopefully I will get to hit it a little harder.

Craig,

Geeze, that sounds like a fair swap. You better get the barf bag out. LOL.

 

[craigsub]

Craig,

Geeze, that sounds like a fair swap. You better get the barf bag out. LOL.

MacMan's posting about the Xsub was my inspiration - people are always asking about good subwoofers for under $300. It would be cool to have a sub to suggest in the low 200's ...

Steely Dan is rolling now. Gaucho, to be exact.

 

[jaxvon]

Good music choice!

How's that sub performing? Do any test tones on it yet?

 

[craigsub]

Good music choice!

How's that sub performing? Do any test tones on it yet?

Thought you would approve.

I will do some test tones over the weekend. Right now I am watching "Ice Age" with my son - pretty darn good. My ears say this guy does a solid 28 Hz.... and it WILL hit hard.

 

[jaxvon]

Are you testing the Cadences with your Klipschorns? That recording is very bright, I couldn't imagine it with horn tweeters. It made my ears bleed (well, not really) with B&W 705s.

You know, if you're ever looking to "off" a subwoofer, send me a PM. I'm always in need of low-end reinforcement...

 

[craigsub]

Are you testing the Cadences with your Klipschorns? That recording is very bright, I couldn't imagine it with horn tweeters. It made my ears bleed (well, not really) with B&W 705s.

You know, if you're ever looking to "off" a subwoofer, send me a PM. I'm always in need of low-end reinforcement...

I sold the Klipsch last year - the system now includes ACI's Essence V's for mains, Essence for center, and Emeralds for sides and backs.

I will keep that in mind about the subs ...

 

[MacManNM]

So Craig, how about a preliminary qualitative analysis?

 

[craigsub]

So far, It is pretty impressive. It handled "Ice Age" pretty well. I think I will be lugging the PB10-ISD into the same room for some A/B ... Probably on Saturday.

 

[Peter Marcks]

Dear MacManNM,

I’d be willing to bet that you cant get over 90db SPL @ 27 Hz anywhere in that room other than right next to the [8"] sub, if even there.

When Tom Nousaine measured the STF-1 (which has an 8" driver and a 3" flared port), he noted that it "delivered a minimum of 101db's at any frequency above 25Hz", and had bandwith uniformity of 98% in the 25-62Hz range. When we tested the STF-1 outside from at least 1 meter away, we found that response at 100db was basically flat to 30Hz, and around -8db's at 25Hz (note that in-room measured response should be somewhat better due to boundary reinforcement). So overall not bad, and some useable output below 30Hz in small to medium sized rooms, especially when placed in nearfield position.

Within each manufacturer's respective lineup, a subwoofer with a larger driver will tend to give enhanced output and low end frequency response versus a subwoofer with a smaller driver. However, when comparing subwoofers from different brands, there are many other variables to consider. Ported or sealed, enclosure size, amplifier power, driver qualities, tuning point, and so on and so forth.

Ultimately there are very good quality products available from a variety of different manufacturers that come in all shapes and sizes. I do have respect for those who try first and foremost to provide quality audio components for the lowest of budgets. Cadence seems to be doing just that.

Sincerely,

 

[Tomorrow]

Dear MacManNM,



When Tom Nousaine measured the STF-1 (which has an 8" driver and a 3" flared port), he noted that it "delivered a minimum of 101db's at any frequency above 25Hz", and had bandwith uniformity of 98% in the 25-62Hz range. When we tested the STF-1 outside from at least 1 meter away, we found that response at 100db was basically flat to 30Hz, and around -8db's at 25Hz (note that in-room measured response should be somewhat better due to boundary reinforcement). So overall not bad, and some useable output below 30Hz in small to medium sized rooms, especially when placed in nearfield position.

Within each manufacturer's respective lineup, a subwoofer with a larger driver will tend to give enhanced output and low end frequency response versus a subwoofer with a smaller driver. However, when comparing subwoofers from different brands, there are many other variables to consider. Ported or sealed, enclosure size, amplifier power, driver qualities, tuning point, and so on and so forth.

Ultimately there are very good quality products available from a variety of different manufacturers that come in all shapes and sizes. I do have respect for those who try first and foremost to provide quality audio components for the lowest of budgets. Cadence seems to be doing just that.

Sincerely,

Tom Nousaine's measurements paralleled our STF-1 test, almost exactly (reported in another post somewhere). At ~3 meters, we had near linear response (*above 90db) to 31hz. (*We did not trust the correction factor we were told to input to the Rat Shack meter readings, so we just played it from a relative perspective, rather than trusting an absolute number. It was LOUD.) Rolloff began at 31 and was down 3db at 28hz, as I recall. Quite useful sound, in my 22x27xvaulted ceiling 'great' room, was available down to 25hz. There was some performance down to the Avia disks limit of 20hz. By anyone's standards, that's a nice 8" sub.

AverageJoe, correct me if any of that is off the exact mark.

 

[MacManNM]

Dear MacManNM,



When Tom Nousaine measured the STF-1 (which has an 8" driver and a 3" flared port), he noted that it "delivered a minimum of 101db's at any frequency above 25Hz", and had bandwith uniformity of 98% in the 25-62Hz range. When we tested the STF-1 outside from at least 1 meter away, we found that response at 100db was basically flat to 30Hz, and around -8db's at 25Hz (note that in-room measured response should be somewhat better due to boundary reinforcement). So overall not bad, and some useable output below 30Hz in small to medium sized rooms, especially when placed in nearfield position.

Within each manufacturer's respective lineup, a subwoofer with a larger driver will tend to give enhanced output and low end frequency response versus a subwoofer with a smaller driver. However, when comparing subwoofers from different brands, there are many other variables to consider. Ported or sealed, enclosure size, amplifier power, driver qualities, tuning point, and so on and so forth.

Ultimately there are very good quality products available from a variety of different manufacturers that come in all shapes and sizes. I do have respect for those who try first and foremost to provide quality audio components for the lowest of budgets. Cadence seems to be doing just that.

Sincerely,

It is a great 8" sub.

My point. 8db down @1 meter ~25 Hz, 1/ comes into play here, at 4 meters you are 20db down, you can’t hear that. Why should anyone pay $299 for an 8” sub that doesn’t perform as well as a $220 12” unit when the footprint is virtually the same (~1 cu ft larger)? This is purely speculative, I would be happy to do a quantitative head to head comparison.

 

[Peter Marcks]

Dear John,

That is 8db's down when measured outside, and certainly some useable output at 25Hz in-room. And the 98% bandwith uniformity is based on a 10% distortion-limited output test performed at 2 meters in a large 7500 cubic feet room starting at test frequency 25Hz and ending at test frequency 62Hz. Placed in the nearfield and/or in a smaller room, and low end impact will be improved.

Now why would someone buy an 8" sub over a 12" sub? Good question. Sometimes it simply comes down to preferences in size and shape. It is much easier to minimize profile and width (and floorspace occupied) when using an 8" driver versus a 12" driver. Other times it comes down to listening preferences.

Make no mistake, the Cadence unit certainly seems to have very good specifications, so it is easy to see why people are excited! And with free shipping on the unit, there is little reason not to try it for those who are in the market

Sincerely,

 

[MacManNM]

Dear John,

That is 8db's down when measured outside, and certainly some useable output at 25Hz in-room. And the 98% bandwith uniformity is based on a 10% distortion-limited output test performed at 2 meters in a large 7500 cubic feet room starting at test frequency 25Hz and ending at test frequency 62Hz. Placed in the nearfield and/or in a smaller room, and low end impact will be improved.

Now why would someone buy an 8" sub over a 12" sub? Good question. Sometimes it simply comes down to preferences in size and shape. It is much easier to minimize profile and width (and floorspace occupied) when using an 8" driver versus a 12" driver. Other times it comes down to listening preferences.

Make no mistake, the Cadence unit certainly seems to have very good specifications, so it is easy to see why people are excited! And with free shipping on the unit, there is little reason not to try it for those who are in the market

Sincerely,

I can see where the 80 square inches of floor space would sway a buyer.

 

[Peter Marcks]

That is a difference in floorspace of ~31% less, and a difference in width of ~33% less (about 5.5" less width). Whether that is important or not is entirely dependent on the consumer. Some people value size, some people value other specifications (whether it is driver size, amp power, port size, port tuning, bandwith uniformity, frequency response, etc).

Cheers

 

[MacManNM]

That is a difference in floorspace of ~31% less, and a difference in width of ~33% less (about 5.5" less width). Whether that is important or not is entirely dependent on the consumer. Some people value size, some people value other specifications (whether it is driver size, amp power, port size, port tuning, bandwith uniformity, frequency response, etc).

Cheers

I admire your dedication to your product.

 

[Peter Marcks]

Thank you.

 

[Tomorrow]

I can see where the 80 square inches of floor space would sway a buyer.

I can see where offensive sarcasm would sway a reader.

 

[Peter Marcks]

How about .052 square meters difference, RJ? Or perhaps 51,451 square millimeters difference? Just kidding with you guys As long as people are happy in the end, that is what counts. Finding a good quality product at a very low price is always a bonus in my book.

Have a great night all!