Where are the BIG center channels?

[lovinthehd]

Yea, my time is more valuable to do other things that sift through endless amounts of toxic negative mimic/parrot crap there. I'd be happy just to see the graphs and data and not read any comments or commentary, assuming the measurements were done in an ideal way.

Very best,

The measurements offered are pretty nice but often not comprehensive for the device as a whole (i.e. all uses, rather than just certain avenues measured). The comments about aesthetics and ergonomics I find mostly useless there, tho.....

 

[MalVeauX]

The measurements offered are pretty nice but often not comprehensive for the device as a whole (i.e. all uses, rather than just certain avenues measured). The comments about aesthetics and ergonomics I find mostly useless there, tho.....

Yea, I don't care about how it looks in a review; I can see that part myself and while it matters to an extent, I care more how the drivers look than the cabinet. I'm ok with utilitarian and don't like lavish veneer despite it being beautiful simply because veneer is not timeless while just straight black ash is timeless.

Very best,

 

[lovinthehd]

Yea, I don't care about how it looks in a review; I can see that part myself and while it matters to an extent, I care more how the drivers look than the cabinet. I'm ok with utilitarian and don't like lavish veneer despite it being beautiful simply because veneer is not timeless while just straight black ash is timeless.

Very best,

Aesthetics are really low on my list, whether electronic boxes or speaker coffins or sub blocks No WAF so really easy to do what I like in any case, tho. I don't like looking at drivers particularly myself....

 

[MalVeauX]

Aesthetics are really low on my list, whether electronic boxes or speaker coffins or sub blocks No WAF so really easy to do what I like in any case, tho. I don't like looking at drivers particularly myself....

My wife and kids never have input on audio equipment, they just enjoy what they hear and it's readily apparent when something goes wrong and the TV is playing from its internal speakers.

I tend to favor utilitarian, it just lasts forever for a look and easier to match. Something very unique in terms of its look will stand out too much later.

Very best,

 

[lovinthehd]

My wife and kids never have input on audio equipment, they just enjoy what they hear and it's readily apparent when something goes wrong and the TV is playing from its internal speakers.

I tend to favor utilitarian, it just lasts forever for a look and easier to match. Something very unique in terms of its look will stand out too much later.

Very best,

With kids I'd be thinking more about metal protective grids over the speakers.....I know what I did as a kid to my dad's speakers

 

[Mark E. Long]

Mostly toxic to subjective nonsense IME. Can be kinda rough based on some stats that are largely inaudible, tho Lots of very good content/knowledge there, tho.....

I’ve found for me at least is to dig and find the info and there is good info but partaking in there banter or opinions on about anything reviewed is just crazy at times .

 

[lovinthehd]

I’ve found for me at least is to dig and find the info and there is good info but partaking in there banter or opinions on about anything reviewed is just crazy at times .

Yeah, but mostly it's just rough on unsubstantiated objective views/preferences....and it should be IMO.

 

[ryanosaur]

Why do I get the feeling we are just arguing about Milky Ways or Snickers here.
They are both "good" candy bars.



There are things you can do that give a better sweet snack, but those are the easy options (loosely speaking).

With Center Speakers, we know what can give better acoustical performance. But which is right for you?

 

[Danzilla31]

Why do I get the feeling we are just arguing about Milky Ways or Snickers here.
They are both "good" candy bars.



There are things you can do that give a better sweet snack, but those are the easy options (loosely speaking).

With Center Speakers, we know what can give better acoustical performance. But which is right for you?

Give me a break

Give me a break

Break me off a peice of that Kit Kat Bar

 

[NINaudio]

Why do I get the feeling we are just arguing about Milky Ways or Snickers here.
They are both "good" candy bars.

I don't know man, I don't think Milky Way is in the same tier of candy bars as Snickers.

 

[gaby95]

Yea, I started looking and when I clicked their master list and saw only 3 Paradigms measured and all three got a "no" next to them, I just closed the website.

I'd love to see data, without perhaps their interpretation of said data. I love measurements, but man, ASR is such a negative/toxic place frankly.

Very best,

I dont see it any more toxic than most forums. Every forum has an AVSFORUM Zorba.. LOL
The sad reality is that many center speakers are simply bad and they dont sugar coat it at ASR. The data is provided so you can interpret it yourself if you prefer and in the end, I have tested speakers that have tested badly just to find out for myself if they were speakers that I was really wanting to work for my needs.

Regards

 

[MalVeauX]

I dont see it any more toxic than most forums. Every forum has an AVSFORUM Zorba.. LOL
The sad reality is that many center speakers are simply bad and they dont sugar coat it at ASR. The data is provided so you can interpret it yourself if you prefer and in the end, I have tested speakers that have tested badly just to find out for myself if they were speakers that I was really wanting to work for my needs.

Regards

For sure, I just find it more evident there to the point where it's not even enjoyable to participate and just look at the graphs and leave. Sure, most centers are going to measure poorly, it's a very compromised design when horizontal. But they virtually poopoo "I do not recommend this" on nearly everything they measure with a few fan favorites. I get it, their hobby is to just look at the measurements, probably don't even listen to them anymore. That's fine, whatever floats their boat. I like both, it would be nice to have some basic measurements and if they look acceptable as a baseline then give them a listen. Odds are if they measure ok they will sound fine.

Very best,

 

[panteragstk]

I don't know man, I don't think Milky Way is in the same tier of candy bars as Snickers.

First thing that came to mind.

 

[gaby95]

For sure, I just find it more evident there to the point where it's not even enjoyable to participate and just look at the graphs and leave. Sure, most centers are going to measure poorly, it's a very compromised design when horizontal. But they virtually poopoo "I do not recommend this" on nearly everything they measure with a few fan favorites. I get it, their hobby is to just look at the measurements, probably don't even listen to them anymore. That's fine, whatever floats their boat. I like both, it would be nice to have some basic measurements and if they look acceptable as a baseline then give them a listen. Odds are if they measure ok they will sound fine.

Very best,

Yes extremes are bad either way. I do think there is a lot of accusations at ASR that they dont even listen and I find that far from truth but of course, I am sure there are members that actually just love numbers LOL

 

[MalVeauX]

Yes extremes are bad either way. I do think there is a lot of accusations at ASR that they dont even listen and I find that far from truth but of course, I am sure there are members that actually just love numbers LOL

I love looking at data, even with a little bias in the generation of the data, it's vastly superior than someone's ear-memory testimony.

Very best,

 

[gaby95]

I love looking at data, even with a little bias in the generation of the data, it's vastly superior than someone's ear-memory testimony.

Very best,

Yep, with how short our audio memory is, data is very important.

 

[shadyJ]

I dont see it any more toxic than most forums. Every forum has an AVSFORUM Zorba.. LOL
The sad reality is that many center speakers are simply bad and they dont sugar coat it at ASR. The data is provided so you can interpret it yourself if you prefer and in the end, I have tested speakers that have tested badly just to find out for myself if they were speakers that I was really wanting to work for my needs.

Regards

MTM centers might not be as horrible as they are made out to be by ASR. There are problems, to be sure, but the cancellation lobes these guys complain about change with respect to distance. That means that the acoustic reflections that they generate aren't as severe as it would be were those nulls occurring at every distance. I have done A/B testing of MTM vs TM as center speakers. On-axis, I didn't notice any significant difference. Off-axis, the effect was there, but it was not severe as an audible artifact. I do advocate for 3-way centers when possible, but an MTM, when used properly, can make a fine center speaker. The guys who say otherwise are operating on theory rather than practice, and incomplete theory at that.

 

[gaby95]

MTM centers might not be as horrible as they are made out to be by ASR. There are problems, to be sure, but the cancellation lobes these guys complain about change with respect to distance. That means that the acoustic reflections that they generate aren't as severe as it would be were those nulls occurring at every distance. I have done A/B testing of MTM vs TM as center speakers. On-axis, I didn't notice any significant difference. Off-axis, the effect was there, but it was not severe as an audible artifact. I do advocate for 3-way centers when possible, but an MTM, when used properly, can make a fine center speaker. The guys who say otherwise are operating on theory rather than practice, and incomplete theory at that.

I have to disagree..MTM is just a bad idea for a center. Measurements and my own testing of many currently match those measurements. Sure, distance and how off center you sit play a role but even on axis, the off-axis performance can have a big impact on what you hear...and more importantly on what you DONT get to hear.
Even bad 3-ways like the Emotiva C2+ can have such issues.
The guys who say other wise some how are ALL wrong and "operating on theory" and you are the only one right?
Think about that..they have science and measurements that prove without question, how frequencies are affected....I will put my money on that any day vs only anecdotal "evidence"

Now of course there are other variables that come into play to allow or not allow someone to hear the differences, from room acoustics, experience, the specific speaker being tested, placement of the speakers ie, cabinets, recessed on a table, etc.
I had that happened to me before where testing two speakers I couldnt hear much differences until I fixed my room acoustics and suddenly the performance between the same two speakers was clearly easy to tell apart.
Regards

 

[shadyJ]

The guys who say other wise some how are ALL wrong and "operating on theory" and you are the only one right?

Correct, I am the only one.

 

[ryanosaur]

There is a balance point. I agree with Shady on the technical side. So much comes down to use case and what is actually needed in-room.
There is a part of me though that believes in following best practices to achieve the best results in-room. It is in this where I lean toward a proper upright matching Speaker or a well designed horizontal 3-way Center. To me, with basic understanding of the design concepts, it becomes an easy matter of making the choice that is right for you.
I do wish that the designers and manufacturers would take further steps to mitigate potential issues, and frankly think that these companies should make available their own testing. I do not believe that some of these companies are incapable of getting their Speakers tested prior to finalizing and producing their line. These companies know what educated consumers are after and should take it a step further and design for this while helping educate other customers in a constructive manner as to why "this" design is the best they can put forth.
At the same time, I wish consumers would stop copping out and putting silly demands on Speaker manufacturers. "I bought this entertainment unit that can only hold a 5" h x 13" w x 8" d center." F that! "Why the hell did you buy furniture before you knew what equipment you were going to invest in for your home entertainment?


ASR does tend to go too far on one the side... this I agree, but not everybody there does. There is of course this version of that thread over there, and somebody commenting that even if the same drivers and same XO work is being utilized, the radiation pattern will change the Speaker so significantly as to no longer being an appropriate match.

Again... Best Practices.

We do what we can, when we can, to get the best performance possible. We need to stop making silly convenience choices if SQ matters most.