What do you think of current taxes?

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

BRING THE TROOPS HOME (so they can wage war on welfare moochers)

 

[BMXTRIX]

You don't know Brian's situation. A good reason not to comment on it. It would also seem you are blind to the situations of the world we live in if you believe your statements. You are also correct that you don't know enough details and will probably irk too MANY people when you comment about our military and their families.

Please don't make comments that are inflammatory just to see if you can get a rise. There are a lot of hard working people that have given for the sake of others. This country was founded on the principle that the less fortunate can have another chance and will not be persecuted. Our military was founded to protect our rights and help defend the less fortunate.

Actually I wasn't aware that I did... and you didn't actually quote or specify who you were speaking to. Some people will make comments to get a rise, others will make comments because they have a problem with the facts.

What I have seen for a lot of military recruiting is that if you are a young kid with no direction or aim or goals in life... then that is exactly what they are looking for. That's a lot of bottom feeder scraping to put together the military. It doesn't reflect on the actual people, but once again points towards the lousy management and the way things are done quite often in this country.

Brian specifically I did not comment on in any way that I think HE would call negative. He did come here to make some comments himself, about himself, which, if someone doesn't want to hear comments back, then perhaps they shouldn't put themselves out there for that in the first place. Yet, he has been good to others on these forums and I think he tries to help others well, and I am unaware of the truth of his situation. Simple as that. No comments were made as to whether he truly is mooching or just in a bad situation. No comment from me either way - so who were you directing your comments to?

Yet, anyone in a government job, especially military, should be questioned and commented upon anytime they may be taking part in something unethical or unfair to others. Our military was not founded to "help defend the less fortunate" it was founded to protect our borders from foreign invaders. Heck, by your reasoning you are against Iraq because it neither protects our rights nor helps the less fortunate of our country. In fact, it could very well do just the opposite with how poor war actually is on a national economy like ours. Now, THAT was inflamatory.

I actually support the war, I'm not happy about it, but think it will be beneficial for the USA in the (very) long run if we stay the course. I have no clue or comment at all about Brian other than his positive actions on these boards. I definitely have comments about a great deal of the members of the military as I don't feel that pulling from the bottom of the pool, then paying exorbinant amounts of money to them is the best way to do things. Not against the people going out in harms way, but to the morons running the show. Continued poor work by the powers that be.

 

[shokhead]

I knew nothing about Brain untill i read it on this thread. Not sure where the be attacked about only making 700 bucks came from and being ridiculed for finding bargains as most of us shop that way.

 

[majorloser]

Actually I wasn't aware that I did... and you didn't actually quote or specify who you were speaking to. Some people will make comments to get a rise, others will make comments because they have a problem with the facts.

But luckily you live in the United States where our government allows us both to have those rights and our military defends those rights. Please re-read your past posts. Edit as needed.

What I have seen for a lot of military recruiting is that if you are a young kid with no direction or aim or goals in life... then that is exactly what they are looking for. That's a lot of bottom feeder scraping to put together the military. It doesn't reflect on the actual people, but once again points towards the lousy management and the way things are done quite often in this country.

Please feel free the next time you see a member of our armed forces to tell him or her that they are bottom feeders! I hope you pick a nice military bar to make those kinds of comments.

I take it you have no idea what it takes to become an officer or be accepted to one of the military academies.

Brian specifically I did not comment on in any way that I think HE would call negative. He did come here to make some comments himself, about himself, which, if someone doesn't want to hear comments back, then perhaps they shouldn't put themselves out there for that in the first place. Yet, he has been good to others on these forums and I think he tries to help others well, and I am unaware of the truth of his situation. Simple as that. No comments were made as to whether he truly is mooching or just in a bad situation. No comment from me either way - so who were you directing your comments to?

I think that speaks for itself.........you should read your previous quotes than maybe edit.

Yet, anyone in a government job, especially military, should be questioned and commented upon anytime they may be taking part in something unethical or unfair to others. Our military was not founded to "help defend the less fortunate" it was founded to protect our borders from foreign invaders. Heck, by your reasoning you are against Iraq because it neither protects our rights nor helps the less fortunate of our country. In fact, it could very well do just the opposite with how poor war actually is on a national economy like ours. Now, THAT was inflamatory.

Actually I stated, "This country was founded on the principle that the less fortunate can have another chance and will not be persecuted. Our military was founded to protect our rights and help defend the less fortunate."

Here is only but a few items that state what our military is for and what our founding fathers wanted:

The Constitution-
The Preamble “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

“To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union”

“To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;”

Provides for a military that defends the Constitution.

The Articles of the Confederation –

Article III. The said States hereby severally enter into a firm league of friendship with each other, for their common defense, the security of their liberties, and their mutual and general welfare, binding themselves to assist each other, against all force offered to, or attacks made upon them, or any of them, on account of religion, sovereignty, trade, or any other pretense whatever.

Article IV. The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different States in this Union, the free inhabitants of each of these States shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several States

Binds the States (US government) to defend liberties that includes religion and “any other pretense whatever”.

Oath of Enlisted Military –

"I, _____, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

They swear they will obey orders. Not question them.

All of that and more boils down to the US military will provide security and defense of this country and it's laws. Which is specifically spelled out that it defends liberties of religion and any other pretense (falsehood) from foreign and domestic threats. Would that not be defending the "less fortunate"? There are many instances in national and state law that specifically states what the military was founded for and how it will be used.

We could go on further with our agreements with the United Nations, NATO and other foreign policies to further state how the defense of others is spelled out.

We could also look at how our military was deployed in the past that set the presedence for todays use of the military.

You should be glad our country does not demand mandatory military service like many other countries.

 

[ironlung]

...a pointed question...whose responsibility is that?

If you can't afford to do something, whether it's buy a car or start a family, save until you can...until then, act responsibly, don't depend on the dole and keep it in your pants!

jimHJJ(...it's called personal responsibility...a little-used commodity nowadays...)

But its fun to do-it. Condoms are expensive!

 

[Matt34]

And while the equipment they use costs a bundle, the individual people don't get paid crap. Although, I've heard that our soldiers in Iraq are eating very well, so I'm happy for that.

Now they are, when I was there I was lucky to get 3 hot meals a week...

 

[Matt34]

Free college, free health insurance, free dental insurance, free vision-care plans, free food, reduced price consumer goods on post, sign-on and re-enlistment bonuses (an extra $10,000-$40,000 for ARMY light infantry, $100,000+ for re-enlisting NAVY S.E.A.L. w/combat experience, God only knows what for re-enlisting doctors), reduced car insurance, Free apartment (or house for families), if your married you get even more money for doing no extra work, more kids = more extra money for no extra work, free life insurance, and a guaranteed pension.

Sure a takehome paycheck of X-dollars for a new recruit may sound like chump change, but when you add in the benefits you're effectively giving 17 year old kids a $100,000/year job with no college education. Some of them didn't even graduate highschool.

If they have 3 kids when they enlist you get a 4 bedroom house... In some posts (say California), thats a free $750,000 piece of property. No rent or property taxes due, thank you very much sign on the dotted line.

Sure they have a very real risk of getting shot overseas, but you also get to pick you MOS (your "job") when you enlist: Wanna be in the infantry? thats fine, but don't look suprised when the diesel mechanic or the radiologist get the same benefits package and don't get shot at.

Why aren't you at the recuriters office if we have it so good?

....I don't know where you guys are getting this, "if they have kids they get more money" thing?

The housing issuse isn't the same throughout, when I got to my latest assignment I was 135th on the waiting list for on-post housing.(which btw is mostly 60 years old.) I lived in a motel with 2 german shepards for 3 months before I could fine a house that I could afford.

When I first came in a few years ago a a newlywed(1996) and working 60hr weeks(funny how that didn't go away) I was bringing home $750 a month which quailified me for foodstamps, did I take them, hell no, my wife got a job at Wal-mart selling shoes and we did this with one vehicle(which took a quarter of my paycheck every month) $750 a month to defend this country, not a bad deal I thought......

We've come a long way since then..

BMXTRIX,

I don't know exactly what your taking about "ethiclly questionable things" but I'll make sure my wife knows you don't think she is worthy of recieving family seperation pay while I'm away for a year (again) in Iraq. Cause her life is so easy...... BTW- we don't have childern and this lifestyle is reason for it.

She is part of the military as much as I am and it wasn't her choice like it was mine.

 

[highfihoney]

You should be glad our country does not demand mandatory military service like many other countries.

i think alot of people take for granted what serving in the military really means to a man & the personal losses they endure while serving , i am extremely glad service is not mandated.

i very narrowly missed the draft for vietnam (thank god) & from that experience i gained the knowledge that it takes people with HUGE BALLS to serve & their motives for joining/serving should not be questioned by those of us who dont or never have served.

to begrudge brave people like this things like housing or extra cash/resources for their wives & children is insane.

 

[Matt34]

One more thing, the topic of taxes come up and all you can say is how much is spent on the people that actually have a job(no less defending your country)?

Like I said before, if we have it so good how come there are only 500,000+/- active duty defending a country of 295,734,134 give or take a few thousand illegals.

 

[highfihoney]

As for the guys working in the rain - I've gotta say that a person making a living doing hard work deserves a paycheck. They should be salaried folk who earn their money. Never - EVER - sent home without pay. You can't make the bills if you live on a erradic income. An employer also can't maintain good employees when they can't guarantee them a regular paycheck. No, I don't want them in the rain if it doesn't fix the problem. But, I don't think they shouldn't be paid either. Find something else worthwhile to do with them and their time. Train, learn, educate, clean, etc. Just so much to do, why not do it?

my example was to show how lazy & unqualified management personal in our government operate on a daily basis but its not their fault alone,50% of the blame for wasteful spending can be laid at the feet of the hourly employee's too, if a supervisior was to ask these road workers to go do something else that was constructive they would surely be confronted with the old (thats not my job) speech & thats where sitting around reading playboy magazines comes into action,thats not my job & you cant make me!

this is how local & state employee's operate weather they be salary or hourly,once a person signs on as a government employee they are set for life & they know it too,unqualified & lazy personel cant be fired,at best they just get transfered to some other department.

this type of behavior is extremely previlant in our government & has caused alot of cities/states to outsource such things as garbage disposal & maintance of city buildings, this type of poor work ethics & poor quality workmanship has also caused most states & cities to outsource all of their road work (except patching) to outside contractors who can & will be held accountable for costs & quality,things that government employee's cannot be held accountable for.

just because a guy reports for work does not mean he is deserving a paycheck.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Why aren't you at the recuriters office if we have it so good?

I was a few years ago. Failed the physical (heart murmur). They'd probably take me now no questions asked they're so laid-up for troops but my wife said she'd leave me, she's already done the whole 'Marine Wife' thing, which lead to her last divorce. And I'd take my wife over camel-spiders anyday.

The housing issuse isn't the same throughout, when I got to my latest assignment I was 135th on the waiting list for on-post housing.(which btw is mostly 60 years old.) I lived in a motel with 2 german shepards for 3 months before I could fine a house that I could afford.

If I stayed at a motel (lets use Super 8's $75/night payment plan) it'd cost me $2250/month. And you got to keep your dogs. No its not a perfect situation, what with a lack of base housing caused by base-consolidation(which is causing the local housing market to skyrocket), but you weren't living in a tent either.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

In case anyones curious, the great middle-eastern camel spider!

 

[BMXTRIX]

majorloser - You are way to defensive of the individuals that serve. I am NOT talking about individuals, I am talking about the forced management structure by which the military is being forced to operate and recruit forces.

They are forced into a situation where the majority of their recruiting comes from those individuals with no direction or other alternatives in their life. There are those that rise to the top and there are those who are excellent. There are individuals who perform great things and there are those who will try to stay with it forever because it is a job.

I have no problem with any individual and your responses are misdirected... defending individuals instead of looking at the management structure that is in place which is so inept. Pointedly, military and government management is INCREDIBLY inept. They do exactly what you are doing now. Micromanaging instead of focussing on what the actual problems are. I'm not for the draft, but I think it may be a much better way to ensure a better overall military. Less of a draft and more of a 'required' tour of duty. Those who just want in and out can do so, but everyone gets the chance to experience it and nobody is surprised by it. Families don't feel a child ripped away for service like the draft... and while the kids with no direction will be a part of it as they always have been, those who have always excelled will be able to have their brilliance added to the strength of our military.

One of the biggest issues really is that people simply can't handle any sort of criticism at all. I see it at my job daily, I see it in our government daily... People don't want to hear "Well, have you thought about changing this because it doesn't seem to be working." As soon as they hear one bit of criticism they feel attacked - they take it personally. This is a sure way to guarantee the continued failures within a system.

The system isn't broken, but it has failures that need to be addressed and not shied away from. Not ingored. The policy in place to have open enrollment with financial incentives that favor those who have less money and less direction in life is NOT a bottom feeder approach to recruitment? I don't see how it can be looked at any other way.

Of course... what will I find in a military bar or from individual enlistees will be individuals. Some will be excellent others will be lousy. I am not judging the individuals - I am commenting on the system. If you don't like the comments and think everything is perfect... Then that is your choice.

I would rather work for improvement though, thanks.

 

[BMXTRIX]

just because a guy reports for work does not mean he is deserving a paycheck.

Absolutely! More accurately they deserve responsibility and accountability and the state MUST have the right to enforce this.

Don't focus on the individual, but the system that allows this to happen or encourages wastefullness. There are always tasks to be done and if you can't repair a pothole, then it is a good day to pick up some litter... Which should be spelled out in the employee's responsibilities. That it IS part of their job. That when the rain comes, you will continue to get a paycheck as long as you work hard and are responsible.

The system can be improved if someone with any power wanted it to be and it would reduce costs while improving overall quality.

Teachers and the school system is an excellent example of not enough responsibility being placed on the system. Some children need to be left behind, so the rest can flourish.

 

[Matt34]

If I stayed at a motel (lets use Super 8's $75/night payment plan) it'd cost me $2250/month. And you got to keep your dogs. No its not a perfect situation, what with a lack of base housing caused by base-consolidation(which is causing the local housing market to skyrocket), but you weren't living in a tent either.

The place I stayed at was $65/night and my housing allowance was only $865 a month at the time. I guess I could have made some money off the dime bags I found inside the cold water knob.

I've stayed in tents that were nicer.

 

[Matt34]

In case anyones curious, the great middle-eastern camel spider!

We killed 10 of those things in one morning while on a checkpoint. They will literally charge you, aggressive little buggers. One on one, they will kill a scorpion any day.

 

[majorloser]

majorloser - You are way to defensive of the individuals that serve. I am NOT talking about individuals, I am talking about the forced management structure by which the military is being forced to operate and recruit forces.

They are forced into a situation where the majority of their recruiting comes from those individuals with no direction or other alternatives in their life. There are those that rise to the top and there are those who are excellent. There are individuals who perform great things and there are those who will try to stay with it forever because it is a job.

I have no problem with any individual and your responses are misdirected... defending individuals instead of looking at the management structure that is in place which is so inept. Pointedly, military and government management is INCREDIBLY inept. They do exactly what you are doing now. Micromanaging instead of focussing on what the actual problems are. I'm not for the draft, but I think it may be a much better way to ensure a better overall military. Less of a draft and more of a 'required' tour of duty. Those who just want in and out can do so, but everyone gets the chance to experience it and nobody is surprised by it. Families don't feel a child ripped away for service like the draft... and while the kids with no direction will be a part of it as they always have been, those who have always excelled will be able to have their brilliance added to the strength of our military.

One of the biggest issues really is that people simply can't handle any sort of criticism at all. I see it at my job daily, I see it in our government daily... People don't want to hear "Well, have you thought about changing this because it doesn't seem to be working." As soon as they hear one bit of criticism they feel attacked - they take it personally. This is a sure way to guarantee the continued failures within a system.

The system isn't broken, but it has failures that need to be addressed and not shied away from. Not ingored. The policy in place to have open enrollment with financial incentives that favor those who have less money and less direction in life is NOT a bottom feeder approach to recruitment? I don't see how it can be looked at any other way.

Of course... what will I find in a military bar or from individual enlistees will be individuals. Some will be excellent others will be lousy. I am not judging the individuals - I am commenting on the system. If you don't like the comments and think everything is perfect... Then that is your choice.

I would rather work for improvement though, thanks.

Your damn right I'm defensive of our military.

No, my comments are not misdirected. I direct my comments at a person that has obviously never served their country nor has ever spent a day in government employment. The same person who is first to complain that something is wrong or unfair but not do anything about it. Run for office, enter the military or get a government job if you think you can do better.

And please, tell us why giving those "on the bottom" an opportunity to better themselves through military service is so wrong. Any soldier or officer is a better person for the service they have given. There is nothing wrong with learning respect.

And for those who thing that their local city government is so poorly run, their streets are in such bad shape or the employees aren't doing a good job, I challenge you to attend one council meeting, one board meeting or any government meeting and speak up.

Everybody wants more from there government but doesn't feel that taxes should go up. Like I said before, try to run your personal budget based on a plan from last year with no increase in income.

Guess what, when you don't have the money to do those projects you're left with a choice: Fire employees or take on less work. Oh but you can't do either of those things. Unions say the people stay and the taxpayers say they must have those projects. But don't you dare raise the taxes or fees.

Let's see: Oil prices went up, Darn asphalt is made of oil; steel prices went up, there goes the guardrails; cement went up 50% last year, there goes the sidewalks; landscape plant prices double, damn we had 4 hurricanes that wipe out the biggest nurseries in the US; alluminum prices skyrocketted, there goes those new streetlights...........

 

[highfihoney]

[

And for those who thing that their local city government is so poorly run, their streets are in such bad shape or the employees aren't doing a good job, I challenge you to attend one council meeting, one board meeting or any government meeting and speak up.

hi major,im not singeling you out with my post but being that you mentioned people going to city council meetings i copied that sentance as a preface to the things i have found out in council meetings.

the reason im so down on my local/state government is that i see the intense mismanagement from the top down on a daily basis,my wife is a school teacher & i have a brother who is a trash collector (garbage man) & my wife attends alot of council meetings so i join her sometimes.

i live in a city where for decades we have paid our garbage men 8 hours a day to do their work no matter how long it takes,if they finish their route in 2 hours then they can go home with 8 hours pay & the routes are so small that my brother needs to go as slow as possible to even make his job last 4 hours.

in the event that not enough hourly employes show up to man all the routes then another 2 man team is allowed to pick up the garbage from the unmanned route after they finish their job & recieve 8 more hours pay at 1 1/2 pay,i have seen times where my brother & his partner have recieved 24 hours pay for working an 8 hour shift with 16 of the hours being overtime pay.

citizens have complained for years about garbage trucks being parked outside employees homes for the entire day & public outcry over these common pratices was massive at council meetings to the point that the public wanted the trash collection put out for bids to cut costs,the response to all of this from my city was to tell all employees to make their job last 8 hours at all costs.

these same pratices apply to our road patching crews,their job title/description is to patch roads,nothing else,in the event of rain or snow they cant be asked to perform another duty that is not outlined in their job description,the union will not allow this pratice & the membership backs this policy 100%,if this issue is pressed by city management it will end up in court & there will be a massive legal battle.

i sat down with my brother & we totaled up all of his sick occasions(2 days equals 1 occasion),personal days,earned days(for showing up every day on time) paid holidays & paid vacation days he only has to work 9 months out of the year & gets paid for 12 months,i would say that this type of spending is mismanagement at all levels including the hourly employes who graciously take every last sick,holiday,personal,vacation,earned day they can or they will loose them,they also have their union fight tooth & nail against increasing route sizes.

the taxpayers of my city supply all the city workers with all of their work boots(2 pair a year of $99 redwing boots)all of their work clothing & all clothing to work outside( $200 carhart bibs & jackets) plus we pay for all of their work gloves.

our government in my state has a proven track record of paying the hourly employes better than 70% of the rest of the tax paying population,sad but true.

 

[shokhead]

And i work 8.5 hours aday. Get paid for 8 and the .5 is for lunch. They dont let me take lunch. Been like that for 22 years.

 

[Sheep]

We killed 10 of those things in one morning while on a checkpoint. They will literally charge you, aggressive little buggers. One on one, they will kill a scorpion any day.

How exactly did you kill them? Bullets, foot, hummvee?

SheepStar