Watts per channel needed??

[Pogre]

One qualification, the standard is actually 2.83V at one meter distance.....(8 ohms is 1 watt, but 4 ohms would be 2 watts).

Right, I knew that too and still typed 1 watt. Oops.

 

[HTfreak2004]

Right, I knew that too and still typed 1 watt. Oops.

1w/1m is more accurate
2.83v can mean more than 1 watt

 

[Verdinut]

1w/1m is more accurate
2.83v can mean more than 1 watt

So what? Anyone acquainted with hi-fi knows that the wattage doubles when the impedance is halved. The amp voltage is now the norm.

 

[lovinthehd]

1w/1m is more accurate
2.83v can mean more than 1 watt

No, it's more accurate to use voltage. 1 watt changes with impedance and is sometimes used to obscure....

 

[jeepers59]

That is such a tough one to answer because the only real way to know is to get out and listen. Most retail environments are set up to catch your eyes and not your ears so it's hard to get a good feel for speakers like that. I think what helped me was hearing a true audiophile system, properly set up to maximize the listening experience. It gave me a point of reference.

The more quality systems you can listen to the better. Search for any hi fi audio places or Best Buys with Magnolia stores in them in your area. The Martin Logan electrostatic speakers they sell at the latter are very nice sounding speakers when you're in the sweet spot and they usually have a pair of those set up in a good spot. Bring music you're familiar with, shmooze the salesperson a little and you can usually get them to set you up for some demo'ing.

I will say that if you listen to different receivers and hear big differences it's most likely going to be due to differences in gain structure, or volume (1 or 2 dB louder can be perceived as sounding "clearer") and/or whatever DSP is engaged in one vs another. For instance, if one has DSP turned on and the other doesn't there's definitely going to be a noticeable difference.

I was over there (best buy) yesterday, they had a Mcintosh playing with the electrostatic speakers on the floor, I didn't like the sound of it. I don't know if it was the tubed receiver, the speakers or they just didn't have it set up right.

In magnolia the design engineer demoed a couple of systems for me but I question how knowledgeable he was, it definitely didn't seem like apples to apples as far as the setup goes. he seemed like a nice guy though. He was telling me that online sales is growing very fast and people just read the reviews and buy it online.

At magnolia the marantz compared to the yamaha did seem warmer. also visted a smaller place by my house that has a denon and a yamaha. again the yamaha seemed to favor highs and mids, didnt seem neutral to me. But then again this guy didnt seem like he cared.

who has the best deals on audio?

 

[HTfreak2004]

No, it's more accurate to use voltage. 1 watt changes with impedance and is sometimes used to obscure....

1 watt does not change with anything 1 watt is an absolute value. 2 watts is an absolute value. 3...4...500 and on to infinity. A number can only be that number! It cannot change because of impedance.

 

[jeepers59]

Try this http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-distance.htm

hey, thanks. I'll check it out. I like that they show the formula.

 

[jeepers59]

One qualification, the standard is actually 2.83V at one meter distance.....(8 ohms is 1 watt, but 4 ohms would be 2 watts).

I hit the report button by accident. sorry

 

[lovinthehd]

hey, thanks. I'll check it out. I like that they show the formula.

Keep in mind that in a room that is somewhat countered by boundary reinforcement....that's where that homestead spl calculator is a bit easier as it takes that into account or not as you like.

 

[lovinthehd]

I hit the report button by accident. sorry

LOL

 

[lovinthehd]

1 watt does not change with anything 1 watt is an absolute value. 2 watts is an absolute value. 3...4...500 and on to infinity. A number can only be that number! It cannot change because of impedance.

The definition is based on voltage and is more comparable without trying to see if someone is playing games with the 1w in the first place.

 

[lovinthehd]

I was over there (best buy) yesterday, they had a Mcintosh playing with the electrostatic speakers on the floor, I didn't like the sound of it. I don't know if it was the tubed receiver, the speakers or they just didn't have it set up right.

In magnolia the design engineer demoed a couple of systems for me but I question how knowledgeable he was, it definitely didn't seem like apples to apples as far as the setup goes. he seemed like a nice guy though. He was telling me that online sales is growing very fast and people just read the reviews and buy it online.

At magnolia the marantz compared to the yamaha did seem warmer. also visted a smaller place by my house that has a denon and a yamaha. again the yamaha seemed to favor highs and mids, didnt seem neutral to me. But then again this guy didnt seem like he cared.

who has the best deals on audio?

What the hell is a design engineer at Best Buy? I'm betting your comparison wasn't level matched....or blind.

 

[HTfreak2004]

I

The definition is based on voltage and is more comparable without trying to see if someone is playing games with the 1w in the first place.

I understand.

A constant voltage driven into a specific resistance determines wattage! The wattage is the result but it is an absolute value that does not change in and of itself!

We are not disagreeing here it’s the other statement you used that was incorrect but that’s because you are talking about a manipulation used to make a speaker sound better than it is to fool the uninformed consumer!

I get that. To me it’s funny when 1w/1m is used without the voltage but for simplicity sake if 1w1m is based on 2.83v it’s accurate!

 

[lovinthehd]

I

I understand.

A constant voltage driven into a specific resistance determines wattage! The wattage is the result but it is an absolute value that does not change in and of itself!

We are not disagreeing here it’s the other statement you used that was incorrect but that’s because you are talking about a manipulation used to make a speaker sound better than it is to fool the uninformed consumer!

I get that. To me it’s funny when 1w/1m is used without the voltage but for simplicity sake if 1w1m is based on 2.83v it’s accurate!

What other statement I used that was incorrect? Yes, if based on 2.83V it's comparable....accuracy is another matter when it comes to sensitivity spec/measurements

 

[Beave]

Don't trust a Magnolia "design engineer" to give you two nickels for a dime.

They're not "design engineers." They're salespeople. I've been to a Magnolia many times and have overheard them say completely wrong things to customers on a regular basis.

For a small room with not-so-loud levels on just about any speakers, just about any receiver will have plenty of power.

Buy the receiver based on price & features. But don't be afraid to buy one with more features than you need. AVRs (audio-video receivers) have far more features than stereo receivers, but don't cost more (and sometimes can even cost less). So you're not really paying more for the added features. This is due to the much higher volume of manufacturing/sales of AVRs versus stereo receivers these days.

PS. It's 2.83 V. If you did the sensitivity with a constant wattage (say, 1W), then the speaker output would go up and down as its impedance changes. Amps are designed to be constant voltage sources, not constant power sources.

 

[HTfreak2004]

What other statement I used that was incorrect? Yes, if based on 2.83V it's comparable....accuracy is another matter when it comes to sensitivity spec/measurements

You said one watt changes with impedance and that is an incorrect statement.

Wattage increases or decreases with impedance even if the voltage is constant would have been an accurate statement!

1 watt will never be 2 watts and so on!

Halving the impedance increases the wattage draw at the same voltage!

 

[lovinthehd]

You said one watt changes with impedance and that is an incorrect statement.

Wattage increases or decreases with impedance even if the voltage is constant would have been an accurate statement!

1 watt will never be 2 watts and so on!

Halving the impedance increases the wattage draw at the same voltage!

One watt can change with a given impedance, it can change from 2.83V which was the point....

 

[Pogre]

At magnolia the marantz compared to the yamaha did seem warmer. also visted a smaller place by my house that has a denon and a yamaha. again the yamaha seemed to favor highs and mids, didnt seem neutral to me. But then again this guy didnt seem like he cared.

Again, even a difference of +1 dB can be perceived as having "brighter highs" where -1 dB might be felt as having more warmth. That's what HD is getting at with level matching. Was DSP engaged with one and turned off on the other? To really compare you need to level match and disengage all sound processing (pure direct mode does this for some brands) for a level playing field.

 

[jeepers59]

Don't trust a Magnolia "design engineer" to give you two nickels for a dime.

They're not "design engineers." They're salespeople. I've been to a Magnolia many times and have overheard them say completely wrong things to customers on a regular basis.

For a small room with not-so-loud levels on just about any speakers, just about any receiver will have plenty of power.

Buy the receiver based on price & features. But don't be afraid to buy one with more features than you need. AVRs (audio-video receivers) have far more features than stereo receivers, but don't cost more (and sometimes can even cost less). So you're not really paying more for the added features. This is due to the much higher volume of manufacturing/sales of AVRs versus stereo receivers these days.

PS. It's 2.83 V. If you did the sensitivity with a constant wattage (say, 1W), then the speaker output would go up and down as its impedance changes. Amps are designed to be constant voltage sources, not constant power sources.

I called him a design engineer because I was quoting his title from the business card he gave me.

 

[HTfreak2004]

PS. It's 2.83 V. If you did the sensitivity with a constant wattage (say, 1W), then the speaker output would go up and down as its impedance changes. Amps are designed to be constant voltage sources, not constant power sources.

And what changes the impedance?