Utter newbie just doesn't understand. Can you please explain to me why this can't be?

[jaxvon]

My speakers suck, which is why I want to ADD MORE SPEAKERS THAT I ALREADY HAVE.

This is the root of the problem. This is why you keep getting the "more speakers" posts. You're asking how to improve your sound, and this is not a good way to do it. Adding more speakers isn't going to make your sound suck less, if anything, it will suck more. While the people here ARE audio freaks, most of them are very budget conscious. They're looking for the way to get the most bang for the buck. Here's the reason why you keep getting "buy better speakers" posts:

About 90% of your sound is speakers and room acoustics. If you have garbage speakers, you'll have garbage sound. Likewise, if you have garbage acoustics (and even really good speakers), you're still going to get garbage sound.

Going with that, the best way to improve your sound is to invest money in good speakers. You already have good electronics (not SUPER OMG HIFI, but good). How would I do this?

Sell the speakers you already have on Ebay or wherever. Take that money, and the money you've allotted to purchase a new reciever and optical splitter and get yourself a good set of speakers and a subwoofer. Not only will you have better sound, but you will end up with less speakers taking up room in your house, a much cleaner, simpler setup, and you'll be able to avoid the hassle of trying to integrate 2 5.1 systems of differing manufacturers in the same space.

I hope this helps. No one here is trying to make you waste money or be an A-hole to you. Still, you're not going to get anywhere by making ranting, smartass posts.

 

[Malogato]

...anywhere by making ranting, smartass posts.

You mean, like the one where I was told to go electrocute myself?


I mean.. people told me to buy http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/AthenaTechnologiesMicra6p1.html the ATHENA speakers

Yet.. I was told that 83dB was "Crap"

yet.. what are the ratings of those speakers? .. Hmmm??? Wow.. it's 89dB

That's so much higher.

Where is that post that said I should get 94dB at the minimum..
Wouldn't that make 89dB ****?

 

[jaxvon]

Well, I guess I can't speak for everybody. I don't make personal attacks on these boards, and no one else should either. All I can say is ignore the people and move on. Starting a flame war is utterly pointless and just leaves everyone pissed without anyone getting helped.

 

[Die Hard Yammy]

Don't you think that if say Yamaha had thought about creating a so called (by you) 10.2 speaker system they would have done it already. Give yourself a shake. When was tha last time you were anywhere and saw someone using two receivers and 10 speakers and two subs? You haven't, know why? Cause no-one is that dumb. Your also comparing the Yammy Sound Projector to what you're trying to do. That's like comparing APPLES with WATERMELONS.

Why are you asking us "SNOBBY ELITISTS" on how to hook up some nightmare system. It seems to me you've got it all figured out. So go and hook up your ULTRA LOUD 10.2 distortion machine, just don;t come crying to us when your head explodes!

I TRIED TO BE NICE AND I WAS FORCED TO BE RUDE, I HATE BEING RUDE SO THANKS A LOT, I REALLY APPRECIATE THAT!

 

[jaxvon]

On the Yamaha Sound Projector, you need to realize that it uses 42 drivers, not 42 speakers. For example, the McIntosh XRT-29 uses a huge array of midranges and tweeters, but these arrays are built into single enclosures that are engineered to work together to produce good sound. The same goes for the large driver array of the Yamaha Sound Projector.

Your proposed setup, on the other hand, is not engineered at all and will simply end up being a bad-sounding hodge-podge of cheap speakers. Try as you might, it will not yield good sound.

 

[markw]

Keep on pounding away, guys.

Maybe you'll get through. Maybe you won't. My $$ is on the latter.

IMNSHO, he ain't worth it. If he doesn't get the idea by now then he never will.

note my tag line. It's there for a reason.

 

[Die Hard Yammy]

Thank you Jaxvon, I wasn.t going to get into techinicals on the Sound Projector. I think you made a great point without being like me. Don't be like me!

 

[zumbo]

We ALL have tried to talk you out of your bad idea. It didn't work. We tried to calm it down and help. It didn't work. Your idea is a very bad one. I don't know of a better way to put it.

Your best bet is to buy the Cerwins. Period. It will be the cheapest way to achieve what you want. If you feel this is of no help, which you have stated, then I am sorry.

I have been into audio for 25 years. I have spent more money than you could imagine on this stuff. But still, my knowledge is much less than many on this board.

You need to either listen and learn, or do it the hard way. In the end, your way is going to cost you MUCH MUCH more money. Because, somewhere down the road you will learn on your on.

 

[Tom Andry]

At this point, I'm actually sorry I tried to help.

 

[markw]

OK grasshopper. Do you know why this was said?

Yet.. I was told that 83dB was "Crap"

yet.. what are the ratings of those speakers? .. Hmmm??? Wow.. it's 89dB

That's so much higher.

I think not and by not knowing, you're missing a very, very important part of the puzzle which others have hinted at.

normally, I'd offer it up gratis (I've done so many times in the past) but in your case, if you really really want to know, you'll have to ask ...nicely.

oh yeah... that 79 db figure is even WORSE! Same reason, only moreso.

And, smart guy, Athena doea make more than that little system and they don't cost a fortune.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/mfglisting.asp?hdnMfg=Athena+Technologies&MFGID=218

Perhaps if you listen to what's being said instead of telling everyone what you want to hear, your visit here might be more productive and somewhat more enjoyable.

IOW, it's not anybody elses fault if the answers to the questions you ask aren't the ones you want to hear.

 

[Malogato]

If so, explain. If not, then you're missing a very, very important part of the puzzle which others have hinted at.

normally, I'd offer it up gratis (I've done so many times in the past) but in your case, if you really really want to know, you'll have to ask ...nicely.

oh yeah... that 79 db figure is even WORSE! Same reason, only moreso.

Let see.. the higher the sensitivity rating, the more efficient use of supplied power the speakers make.

83 db vs 89 db

89/83 = 1.07 Athena's are 7% more efficient.

Price of 5 yammy speakers + sub..
Lets give benefit of the doubt.. $150

$150 x 1.07 = ~$160

price of athena's
$550.00

Percentage over "value" that athena's cost, in relation to their return.
343%

Klipsch solution : $1200.00
klipsch rating : 94db

94/83 = 1.13

$150 x 1.13 [13% more efficient] $170.00

Cost per efficiency ratio on klipsch. 705 %

Using the yamaha's as baseline of 100%

 

[markw]

Close, but no cee-gar...

Let see.. the higher the sensitivity rating, the more efficient use of supplied power the speakers make.

83 db vs 89 db

89/83 = 1.07

Price of 5 yammy speakers + sub..
Lets give benefit of the doubt.. $150

$150 x 1.07 = ~$160

price of athena's
$550.00

Percentage over "value" that athena's cost, in relation to their return.
343%

Klipsch solution : $1200.00
klipsch rating : 94db

94/83 = 1.13

$150 x 1.13 [13% more efficient] $170.00

Cost per efficiency ratio on klipsch. 705 %

Using the yamaha's as baseline of 100%

try again. your numbers are meaningless. hint... Read the Klipsch home page. Understand it. Don't just reference it. I know what it says.

 

[Malogato]

try again. hint... look at the Klipsch home page.

Ok.. I see mention of the iFI product.
I see mention of starwars
I see mentions of Sundance film festival
I see mention of multimedia computer speakers.
a volkswagen commercial,
a pcworld review of the same multimedia speakers.
article on them revitilizing a movie theater by using 16 SPEAKERS to produce surround sound {wait.. did you just prove my point, that what I want to do is possible?, and not a bad idea? Yeah, I think you did..I mean, hell, if KLIPSCH is using MULTIPLE receivers, MULTIPLE speakers, MULTIPLE subwoofers.. I must be a moron for wanting to do the same thing...}

Yeah

They use 16 of these for their "surround sound"
http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=538
5 of these "front speakers" -
http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=543
and 2 of these subwoofers.
http://www.klipsch.com/product/product.aspx?cid=510

Yeah, it's SUCH a stupid idea.
It's SO asinine.. I can't believe KLIPSCH would do something like that.

Don't they know that all you need is a BIGGER, LOUDER SPEAKER?
Instead of MORE SPEAKERS carrying the same signal.
Or do you think that this setup is using a 21.2 channel receiver?

Don't they know that all you need is 5 REALLY BIG 1000 WATT speakers with 400 dB sensitivity and one 10,000 WATT subwoofer?

 

[Resident Loser]

May it please the court...

...exhibit "A"...the following is verbatim from you original post:

"...What I have acquired is ADDITIONAL speakers (5.1) which I wish to ALSO power off this machine.

Now, it is my belief that If I plug TWO speakers into one spring clip, then the 100 watts (yeah, I know, maximum) output that can go to that clip will be DIVIDED amongst those speakers. Thus, instead of giving me 5 speakers @ 100 watts each, I have 10 speakers @ 50 watts each.

What I am wondering is this. Is there a way to take the speaker wires that are coming OUT of the back of the receiver, plug them into some form of "post-amplifier" that has it's own, seperate power source and "add power" to signal? What I'm basically thinking of is some form of signal/output doubler..."

If THAT ain't connecting things together, I'll be a monkeys uncle...

jimHJJ(...abba-dabbba-dabbba...)


[

 

[markw]

whatever...

Yeah, they are gonna use your $150 5.1 speaker system and one chintzy little 5 channel amp for a 16 speaker reference system. If you think that's what they had in mind well, you're the one that brought up "moron", not me.

have a good life, kid. Come back whan you really want to learn.

 

[Malogato]

...exhibit "A"...the following is verbatim from you original post:

"...What I have acquired is ADDITIONAL speakers (5.1) which I wish to ALSO power off this machine.

Now, it is my belief that If I plug TWO speakers into one spring clip, then the 100 watts (yeah, I know, maximum) output that can go to that clip will be DIVIDED amongst those speakers. Thus, instead of giving me 5 speakers @ 100 watts each, I have 10 speakers @ 50 watts each.

What I am wondering is this. Is there a way to take the speaker wires that are coming OUT of the back of the receiver, plug them into some form of "post-amplifier" that has it's own, seperate power source and "add power" to signal? What I'm basically thinking of is some form of signal/output doubler..."

If THAT ain't connecting things together, I'll be a monkeys uncle...

jimHJJ(...abba-dabbba-dabbba...)


[

That isn't wiring the two RECEIVERS together, is it?

Or does electricity suddenly flow backwards and forwards, on an OUTPUT?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Malogato,

You really need to take a basic course in physics, not econ or stats. You truly don't understand what a dB rating is. Please, for everyone's sake, especially your own, read (at least) the glossary. Here's one to start you off:


Decibel (dB) - (1) a logarithmic scale used to denote a change in the relative strength of an electric signal or acoustic wave. It is a standard unit for expressing the ratio between power and power level. Using the logarithmic relationship for power PdB = 10*log[Pout/Pin] , a doubling of electrical power only yields an increase of +3 dB. Increasing the power tenfold will yield an increase of +10 dB and is a doubling of perceived loudness. The decibel is not an absolute measurement, but indicates the relationship or ratio between two signal levels. (2) SPL (sound pressure level) can be measured in dB. 0 dB represents the threashold of normal human hearing, 130 dB represents the threashold for pain, 140 dB causes irreparible hearing damage, and 150 dB can cause instant deafness, anything greater than about 192 dB can kill you.

www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/audioholics_glossary.php

 

[Malogato]

Yeah, they are gonna use your $150 5.1 speaker system for a reference system. If you think that's what they had in mind well, you're the one that brought up "moron", not me.

have a good life, kid. Come back whan you really want to learn.

No,I am sure that for that 10,000 square foot location, they are using several multithousand dollar receivers.
But since I don't have 10,000 square feet to cover, I don't need to have a million dollar setup.

They say RIGHT IN THE ARTICLE that they are using 16 SURROUNDS, 5 'FRONTS' and two SUBs.. How are they doing this? EIther through multiple receivers, or through running all the speakers on the same outputs, or some form of boosting to each speaker after the signal is created.

Unless, Like I said, they've got some magical 21.2 channel receiver?

 

[jaxvon]

dB stands for "decibel", or 1/10th of a Bel. It's a measurement of sound intensity, or sound pressure levels (SPL).

Decibels are measured on a logarithmic scale, not linear. This means that for every 10dB increase, the sound intensity is 10x as great. Therefore, an increase in 6dB will yield a (10)^6/10 increase in sound intensity, or about 4 times louder. Of course, your ears hear logarithmically too, hence our measurement scale. So a 4x increase will not SOUND 4x louder. Just wanted to correct your math though.

You can actually hear less than a 1dB change in sound in an optimized environment, but in your room, it's around 3dB. Using this, since you're getting a 6dB increase, that's a quantity you can really hear and is worth achieving.

 

[Malogato]

Malogato,

You really need to take a basic course in physics, not econ or stats. You truly don't understand what a dB rating is. Please, for everyone's sake, especially your own, read (at least) the glossary. Here's one to start you off:


Decibel (dB) - (1) a logarithmic scale used to denote a change in the relative strength of an electric signal or acoustic wave. It is a standard unit for expressing the ratio between power and power level. Using the logarithmic relationship for power PdB = 10*log[Pout/Pin] , a doubling of electrical power only yields an increase of +3 dB. Increasing the power tenfold will yield an increase of +10 dB and is a doubling of perceived loudness. The decibel is not an absolute measurement, but indicates the relationship or ratio between two signal levels. (2) SPL (sound pressure level) can be measured in dB. 0 dB represents the threashold of normal human hearing, 130 dB represents the threashold for pain, 140 dB causes irreparible hearing damage, and 150 dB can cause instant deafness, anything greater than about 192 dB can kill you.

www.audioholics.com/techtips/specsformats/audioholics_glossary.php

So, what this means is that by going from 83 db to 86 db, I have a 200% boost in volume? [which I may, or may not be able to actually quantifiy as 200% boost, but will definately be "louder"]


Well, why didn't somebody say that?

86-83 = 3
every 3 db = 200% of previous.

So, 93dB is 1,000% "louder" than 83 dB?